LPG HSV's? What the?

[Sphinx]

HSV ClubSport R8 sedan - HSV plans fast LPG future with dual-fuel V8 - News

[social]

Looks all good to me, if you get same performance as a petrol run v8, who really cares? but although the petrol prices did drop so LPG isnt as cheaper as it was a few weeks ago. Oohh..can you see it?...LPG V8 Clipsal 500...lol

[CHEETR]

i don't think some people understand , including the maker of this thread, that if HOLDEN/HSV don't start pushing more towards fuel economy they are going to go bankrupt.

unfortunately there would be more market for a cheap to run HSV over a normal one.

modified market is very small these days.

[Grennan]

Your buying a HSV - a car known to be the sporty line and a car that is in the range of around $70,000. If you buy a HSV I highly doubt you are interested in fuel consumption or economy. Sure introduce them in the commodore models, thats where the families buy - the people who are worried about the petrol prices.

[greenacc]

Someone tell me you can buy dual fuel commodores yes ? I know ford does them but not sure bout holden ? Anyway i reckon its a good idea, and have you not noticed that heaps of well off people are actually real tight asses ? thats how they save their money, so i reckon its a goer, as long as the offer the same in the standard commodores.

[wingwang99]

Your buying a HSV - a car known to be the sporty line and a car that is in the range of around $70,000. If you buy a HSV I highly doubt you are interested in fuel consumption or economy. Sure introduce them in the commodore models, thats where the families buy - the people who are worried about the petrol prices.

If you had the choice of a car that cost $20/100kms or $13/100kms which would you chose? It doesn't matter that you want a sports car, if you can run it cheaper then why not?

Someone tell me you can buy dual fuel commodores yes ?

Yes, on the omega models currently you can, and the vy and vz i believe you could buy duel fuels.

[Grennan]

If you choose performance you have to accept... you should accept the fact that its going to cost more in petrol. Its like people who buy V8's and moan about petrol prices - go buy a lancer.

Should Holden introduce LPG - YES! HSV on the otherhand... Id rather not but hey if its not effecting the performance.

[commsirac]

Your buying a HSV - a car known to be the sporty line and a car that is in the range of around $70,000. If you buy a HSV I highly doubt you are interested in fuel consumption or economy. Sure introduce them in the commodore models, thats where the families buy - the people who are worried about the petrol prices.

Im sure all people are interested in being able to run the car for less coin, wheter they care how many litres/100km it gets or not. and the difference on a 6L vehicle that does 20000km in city traffic per year(they dont get <15L/100km here) would easily pay for a couple of new plasmas every year.

Why do people buy high performance smaller cars?

You may have noticed most 70s muscle cars are parked and not used as daily drivers. The lpg rebate has seen many of them convert and now they can enjoy their cars more often, which isnt so good for the environment

but it is acknowleged in the release:

Regardless of how well its LPG system runs, HSV will still have a marketing battle on its hands to convince customers the fuel can be used in a muscle-car.

Obviously they have much work to do in making people such as Grennan feel comfortable about driving on lpg, perhaps they can have one of those adds where your finger grows larger if its on lpg.

Really,what is not to like, its going to go just as fast with the lgi system....if it were me Id want one that was lpg only, no petrol tank to weigh it down. Actually, they could up the compression ratio on lpg only and it would be even faster than the petrol version....now that would get people thinking do they really want the petrol version?
Im sure they have run the scenarios here, what I dont know of course is how much it would take to properly develop a higher compression motor and the resistance many would have to driving an lpg only vehicle.

[blownba]

This is crap IMO.
They have gone the wrong way. they are running VSI and a pretty sad system too (same brand as the omega LPG commo) The system cannot flow enogh gas so it has to swap back to petrol at certain rpm/ load.
That is poor to say the least.
I have personally fitted the new JTG LIQUID LPG INJECTION to a 317 VE and this system is far superior than VSI. It injects the LPG as a liquid into the intake and this freezes or supechills the incomming air charge therefore making it more dense thus increasing performance above that of petrol.
The one I did absolutley pooped on petrol (premium) performance right across the rangs, from idle to redline it put petrol to same.
I can't tell you the results for that one but for the VE calais 6.0L I have also done it came up with 225RWKW on PULP and 243RWKW on LPG!!!!!!!
That is with no tune at all. With a tune for LPG this figure is improved again.
This system runs a pump inside the gas tank and runs the liquid LPG right up to the injectors and it runs a return line and pressure regulator just likje petrol.
There is no converter or reducer to deal with and the system flows more than enough to run a 317 to redline all day long.

They should have gone with JTG. At least than they would have had a system that would compare to the car. The Engines are awesome in em and they run like a friggin animal so when they go even better on LPG thats something that makes me smile every time. And certainly makes my customers happy too and it shows by the amount of people who I have booked in for it.
JTG All the way.
HSV should take note and look into it. If they want to introduce LPG they should do it with a real big bang. Imagine them being able to sell a 317 as a (for instance) 360 running LPG!!!!!!!! Eat that sukka's!!!

[minux]

Why do people buy high performance smaller cars?

You may have noticed most 70s muscle cars are parked and not used as daily drivers.

Smaller cars because people love the fact they can whoop a thumping V8 with minimal effort. Never once have I heard any of the guys say " I bought my Evo X/R34/Sti because it is economical, they chew as much fuel as V8's LMAO, in a 30 minute test drive of an Evo X my l/100km was at 37. Hey what would I know though, I have only driven them and know many people who own them.

As for 70's muscle cars tehy are hardly parked because of fuel, they are parked because 99% of them are worth a bloody fortune. From LC toranas to RX2's, wwith how many are being stolen its not worth people seeing them, who uses a 70's muscle car as a daily anyway?

[minux]

This is crap IMO.
They have gone the wrong way. they are running VSI and a pretty sad system too (same brand as the omega LPG commo) The system cannot flow enogh gas so it has to swap back to petrol at certain rpm/ load.
That is poor to say the least.
I have personally fitted the new JTG LIQUID LPG INJECTION to a 317 VE and this system is far superior than VSI. It injects the LPG as a liquid into the intake and this freezes or supechills the incomming air charge therefore making it more dense thus increasing performance above that of petrol.
The one I did absolutley pooped on petrol (premium) performance right across the rangs, from idle to redline it put petrol to same.
I can't tell you the results for that one but for the VE calais 6.0L I have also done it came up with 225RWKW on PULP and 243RWKW on LPG!!!!!!!
That is with no tune at all. With a tune for LPG this figure is improved again.
This system runs a pump inside the gas tank and runs the liquid LPG right up to the injectors and it runs a return line and pressure regulator just likje petrol.
There is no converter or reducer to deal with and the system flows more than enough to run a 317 to redline all day long.

They should have gone with JTG. At least than they would have had a system that would compare to the car. The Engines are awesome in em and they run like a friggin animal so when they go even better on LPG thats something that makes me smile every time. And certainly makes my customers happy too and it shows by the amount of people who I have booked in for it.
JTG All the way.
HSV should take note and look into it. If they want to introduce LPG they should do it with a real big bang. Imagine them being able to sell a 317 as a (for instance) 360 running LPG!!!!!!!! Eat that sukka's!!!

I got to go for a cruise in one these setups in a calais, very very very impressive.

[commsirac]

This is crap IMO.
They have gone the wrong way. they are running VSI and a pretty sad system too (same brand as the omega LPG commo) The system cannot flow enogh gas so it has to swap back to petrol at certain rpm/ load.
!

It appears I have misintepreted the release:

This is not a taxi system – it is a direct-injection LPG. We are running the car around now and if I didn’t tell you it had LPG, you wouldn’t know,” he said.

it doesnt actually specify lgi, but obviously you recognise it as an svi system, how can this be classified as direct injection though? It also appears they have been slightly deceptive in claiming it gets the same power on lpg, you reckon it will be changing over to petrol at full throttle etc?

Why do you think they havent gone the lgi route.....will it add another couple of $1000 to the overall price, they must have sound reasons?

[commsirac]

As for 70's muscle cars tehy are hardly parked because of fuel, they are parked because 99% of them are worth a bloody fortune. From LC toranas to RX2's, wwith how many are being stolen its not worth people seeing them, who uses a 70's muscle car as a daily anyway?

Yes I take your point that someone with an original gtho isnt going to use it as a daily or make it less original by putting lpg on it, however, when I was referring to muscle cars I was specifically thinking about all the HQ-HZs, torana, v8s out there that have been modded in some way.( alot of these cars have more muscle than original gthos) ie your typical hz ute with a modded 308 which would probably do no better than 12mpg on petrol, youll see a high % of these types of cars running lpg now and being used as a daily or the more unique like a 70s ford galaxie all restored but running lpg etc.

[minux]

Yes I take your point that someone with an original gtho isnt going to use it as a daily or make it less original by putting lpg on it, however, when I was referring to muscle cars I was specifically thinking about all the HQ-HZs, torana, v8s out there that have been modded in some way.( alot of these cars have more muscle than original gthos) ie your typical hz ute with a modded 308 which would probably do no better than 12mpg on petrol, youll see a high % of these types of cars running lpg now and being used as a daily or the more unique like a 70s ford galaxie all restored but running lpg etc.

I think many of these run straight gas. My VC commodore I ran straight gas through a 750 holley, it ran a charm, would be a pig on dual fuel though.

I rarely see these old cars out and about now, most have been crashed up, bought up etc for restorations.

Seriously though, the kits blownba is talking about are bloody brilliant and people bagging gas no longer can.

[greenfoam]

There's a HZ? One tonner with a LS1 and direct injection around here. Last time at the track he snapped something in the driveline on the launch so it goes allright

[Johnsy]

I didn't buy a 6.2L HSV ,then thought what about fuel economy !!

I laugh when i fill it up and it says 160k till empty...

I don't care if they do go dual fuel option... but there should always be a petrol only option on these "performance" cars as long as there is oil in the ground....

I only use 98 anyway as it states in the log books that is what you have to use for maximum power thru the rev range, although it can run on 91 the car will compensate for it but not be at it's full potential....not the reason why i bought the car in the first place...

[commsirac]

I didn't buy a 6.2L HSV ,then thought what about fuel economy !!

I laugh when i fill it up and it says 160k till empty...

I don't care if they do go dual fuel option... but there should always be a petrol only option on these "performance" cars as long as there is oil in the ground....

I only use 98 anyway as it states in the log books that is what you have to use for maximum power thru the rev range, although it can run on 91 the car will compensate for it but not be at it's full potential....not the reason why i bought the car in the first place...

You already have a hsv and dont mind paying the price of petrol, you are not their target!
perhaps they want to get more people into them that have held back because fuel price is a consideration.

[B3ND3R]

Im sure they have run the scenarios here, what I dont know of course is how much it would take to properly develop a higher compression motor and the resistance many would have to driving an lpg only vehicle.

you're a little off dude. yes lpg has an RON of 112-ish, however it burns a lot hotter. increasing comp ratios is theoretically possible, but the cylinder heads will be degrading a lot faster.

VSI is a darn good system, i have heard a bit about liquid injection, but if it injects 0.02ml too much, the expansion rate will blow the cylinder head right off the block. give it a few years untill it is down pat then i reckon liquid injection will become a lot more mainstream.

[commsirac]

you're a little off dude. yes lpg has an RON of 112-ish, however it burns a lot hotter. increasing comp ratios is theoretically possible, but the cylinder heads will be degrading a lot faster.

Dude? how am I a little off, sure the combustion conditions will be different for higher compression and to get the most out of lpg that's what can be/should be done. Did I suggest they could just put in a set of longer rods or taller pistons to increase the comp ratio and all would be fine?, no I suggested that they would need time and money to properly develop a high compression motor

VSI is a darn good system, i have heard a bit about liquid injection, but if it injects 0.02ml too much, the expansion rate will blow the cylinder head right off the block. give it a few years untill it is down pat then i reckon liquid injection will become a lot more mainstream.

Interesting..... slightly richer mix of fuel can blow the head off in an lgi system? sounds a bit fanciful, but if it is happening, so be it. Be interesting to here what Blownba can tell us about that.

[jet-6]

What i dont understand is why 95% of people thing LPG is not a good performance fuel, well your wrong, setup right it can be as good and if not better that PULP

I have a Vapour Injected system on my VZ and its well on par with Gas and Fuel, you cant tell when your on gas or fuel, both drive the same

I have mates that have done 10 second passes in cars that run LPG, i think setup right and you can make some high performance cars, that are good and fuel and are resonably good to the enviroment

[alien]

I have mates that have done 10 second passes in cars that run LPG, i think setup right and you can make some high performance cars, that are good and fuel and are resonably good to the enviroment

So what happens when some P plater in 10 years time gets the car and is racing on LPG and wraps the car around a pole and the LPG tank ruptures and explodes blowing the guy sky high!? And same on the track?

Regardless of how well its LPG system runs, HSV will still have a marketing battle on its hands to convince customers the fuel can be used in a muscle-car.

Really,what is not to like, its going to go just as fast with the lgi system....if it were me Id want one that was lpg only, no petrol tank to weigh it down.

Well, i'm still standing by the fact of no LPG. I got my car and made sure it wasn't LPG, heaps of salespeople tried selling me cars and in their pitch was LPG as it was a big sales point. When i turned around and told them i want one without LPG and that has never had it in it they looked at me weirdly!

You'd get RID of the petrol tank? You mean the tank where your meant to run it on every week so that your motor doesn't dry out and crack?

My dad was a mechanic and i know many mechanics now, i've seen what LPG can do and what it's drawbacks are, definatly not worth it IMO. We need to look to other fuels!

Looks all good to me, if you get same performance as a petrol run v8, who really cares? but although the petrol prices did drop so LPG isnt as cheaper as it was a few weeks ago. Oohh..can you see it?...LPG V8 Clipsal 500...lol

You mean like the 09 clipsal which will now be running on E10? Would be interesting seeing an LPG V8 Supercar race, but it probably wont happen, otherwise pit stops will take considerably longer! (If you've ever filled an LPG tank you'll understand) Compressing Unleaded or E10 to deliver it to the cars quicker is ok, however compressing LPG is alot more dangerous to get it to the car quicker.

[jet-6]

So what happens when some P plater in 10 years time gets the car and is racing on LPG and wraps the car around a pole and the LPG tank ruptures and explodes blowing the guy sky high!? And same on the track?

Street racing is illegal now, its sure will be in 10 years

Anyway thats off topic, sorry

[padrickz88]

MEH! if the system is that good then i dont see a problem with that

and i highly doubt a gas tank will rupture because someone wraps themselves around a pole.... gas tanks are actually stronger then petrol tanks because they are thick as anything and the gas inside actually makes it harder to crack (sort of reinforcing it)

[alien]

MEH! if the system is that good then i dont see a problem with that

and i highly doubt a gas tank will rupture because someone wraps themselves around a pole.... gas tanks are actually stronger then petrol tanks because they are thick as anything and the gas inside actually makes it harder to crack (sort of reinforcing it)

People say that the tanks dont rupture or explode in fire. Yet if you do a search on this forum there's a post not even a month old (from memory) of a car with an LPG tank that was set alight. And then tank ended up a few hundred metres down the road. Sounds fair dangerous to me. All it takes is a collision where the guy's unconcious and a fire starts for them to be totally screwed!

Anyone know what CAMS Australia says to LPG cars? I know they allow them in drifting races, but not sure about rally cross (which would be really stupid) and others.

[padrickz88]

anything can break, just depends how much... i would put more money on my petrol tank catching fire before my gas tank does......

petrol tank: thin-ish metal, close to the ground, 1st thing to get if i get rear ended etc etc

gas: in the boot, made of thicker metal and not easy to hit if i do get hit in the ass.... but if it does blow, im ****ed! lol...