HQ/HZ project

[Idiot_in_training]

Hi guys

At the moment im looking at buying a hq/hz as a project car, and I was wondering if you guys could give me some ideas on which to choose, and an engine, gear box, diff ect to go into towards the finished product.

at the moment i'm leaning more towards the HZ and a pretty simple Chev 350 what sort of working fitting would this take ect.

any ideas and comments welcome

[vsl67]

Find a 71 HQ so its pre ADR & you will get away with a lot more

[Idiot_in_training]

what do you mean by pre ADR?

*edit* sorry know what you mean by adr, but what is the effect of it between the two models?

[SquishyShoes]

If the car was made after a certain year (can't remember which but about 1974-76) it has stricter rules on what mods can be done, I think most need cats but I can't remember exactly.

[Trevor 062]

I don't think you can put a 350 in a HZ unless running on gas

[Idiot_in_training]

ok, does anyone know the restriction on a 79 HZ, or know where I have to search to find them?

[greenfoam]

You NEED an early HQ, you can put a Chev in the later models but it becomes restrictive to what you can do (and it will need cats etc and you wont be able to modify it legally). It's most important to get the HQ (the earliest one possible). Not to mention the HQ looks the best, but the pre emmisions thing is worth it's weigth in gold.

The easiest driveline with good power is a 350/383 Chev small block and a T350 or T400 gearbox with a Commodore diff with the HQ mounts on it or a 9 inch

[vsl67]

I have a set of 71 HQ sedan And ute Id tags floating around somewhere that I kept of a car that a mate wrecked year ago

[Calaber]

ADR 27A came in in 1976 and the HX was introduced to meet those regs. It has to be the very worst traditional model Holden ever brought out. To meet the emissions regs, the 6 cylinders were absolutely rooted with pipes and plumbing everywhere and very crude engineering to enable the old and obsolete 6 to run without excessive pollution. The trouble is, the modifications increased consumption, reduced performance and soon led to engines that were bastards to keep in tune and running smoothly. ADR 27A 202's are absolute dogs. The V8's were not much better. They also suffered from increased consumption and lower performance. Nobody would ever want an HX these days - in fact, I can't remember the last time I saw one. The engines in the HZ were not much better but at least the cars handled much more safely.

The unfortunate thing about modifying the HQ to HZ is that the HZ was by far the best handling of the lot, but the HQ does have the advantage of a lot more freedom to modify as it doesn't have to comply with emissions regs etc to the same standard as the HX and HZ.

Getting your hands on a clean HQ can be difficult. They have plenty of rust points and are now really old and very tired, unless you get a well cared for one and then the price reflects the condition.

[Blown V6 Hatch]

Fuel injection gets around all the emission problems.

[Idiot_in_training]

ok thanks for all that guys its giving me heaps of idea and shutting down some stupid one rightly so :|, so if i get a hq I should easily be able to do pretty much what ever I want to around the engine, and it will be passed at a road worthy, but to pass a hz i've got to look at fuel injection to get around the emissions section of the ADR?

[vsl67]

ADR 27A came in in 1976 and the HX was introduced to meet those regs. It has to be the very worst traditional model Holden ever brought out. To meet the emissions regs, the 6 cylinders were absolutely rooted with pipes and plumbing everywhere and very crude engineering to enable the old and obsolete 6 to run without excessive pollution. The trouble is, the modifications increased consumption, reduced performance and soon led to engines that were bastards to keep in tune and running smoothly. ADR 27A 202's are absolute dogs. The V8's were not much better. They also suffered from increased consumption and lower performance. Nobody would ever want an HX these days - in fact, I can't remember the last time I saw one. The engines in the HZ were not much better but at least the cars handled much more safely.

The unfortunate thing about modifying the HQ to HZ is that the HZ was by far the best handling of the lot, but the HQ does have the advantage of a lot more freedom to modify as it doesn't have to comply with emissions regs etc to the same standard as the HX and HZ.

Getting your hands on a clean HQ can be difficult. They have plenty of rust points and are now really old and very tired, unless you get a well cared for one and then the price reflects the condition.

This is so true if you really want to see how bad the emission gear choked the motors in some of these cars pop the the bonnet on a WB statesmans series 2 and have a look what a nightmare

[greenfoam]

There's no actual difference between the suspension of a HQ and HZ just a different setup. There's a old guy here that still remembers how to setup HQ's to handle fantastic but you would want to hurry because he wont work forever . If you put an injected motor in one you are then required to meet the emmisions rules for that engine so you are still half stuffed then. A HQ is the answer to everything ,then you can have a stinking big blower on it and no one can stop you

[Blown V6 Hatch]

All you need on an injected motor is a Cat Convertor/s and a charcoal canister. But yeh, HQ really means you can do what you want....Providing it all fits under the bonnet. Not like it's hard to turn a HJ-WB into a HQ anyway....

[Calaber]

There's no actual difference between the suspension of a HQ and HZ just a different setup. There's a old guy here that still remembers how to setup HQ's to handle fantastic but you would want to hurry because he wont work forever . If you put an injected motor in one you are then required to meet the emmisions rules for that engine so you are still half stuffed then. A HQ is the answer to everything ,then you can have a stinking big blower on it and no one can stop you

Foamy

I recall that part of the HZ suspension change was an alteration to the front upper control arm mounting points. I think they were shifted back from the HQ position. Do you know if this bloke alters the mounting points, or just fiddles with shims etc to vary castor/camber?

[greenfoam]

I don't know about the arms changing? I do know that RTS was a 99% marketing scam and only a setup change From what I remember talking to this suspension guy he removes almost all the shims, infact I think he said he removes them completely on one side? but leaves a few on the other. He told me it's really easy to make them tons better than factory and they almost all want the exact same setup. He's still working part time now I could ask him. But he's very famous around here for being a front end genius with the older cars

[Calaber]

I don't know about the arms changing? I do know that RTS was a 99% marketing scam and only a setup change From what I remember talking to this suspension guy he removes almost all the shims, infact I think he said he removes them completely on one side? but leaves a few on the other. He told me it's really easy to make them tons better than factory and they almost all want the exact same setup. He's still working part time now I could ask him. But he's very famous around here for being a front end genius with the older cars

I don't think the upper arms changed - the actual mounting brackets that are welded to the chassis were relocated. The HZ had a different chassis part number to the earlier models because of this change.

The RTS was definitely no marketing scam. Anybody who drove an HZ after driving an HQ-HX felt the difference immediately. The HQ/J/X's handled like shit - soft, wallowy, ploughing understeer and screaming rubber. The HZ was a revelation. I owned an HZ 253 Premier and my mates had owned HQ 308's in sedans and vans. The HZ ate them in cornering. No, it was much more than just a gimmick - the changes were very real. I would be interested to know how anybody could get an HQ to handle as well just by farting around with shims etc.

That's the problem being an old fart. We lived these things when the cars were new and got to experience the changes, so we could see and feel the difference. It made us want the new models because our old ones were so poor by comparison.

[Blown V6 Hatch]

I really don't see/feel the difference. Iv'e got a WB and i have driven quite a few HQ-HZ's and they all feel about the same really. I agree with Foam, the RTS was a scam to help sales. Anyway, who really cares, the HQ will always be the one to get if you don't want to worry about ADR's.

[Calaber]

I really don't see/feel the difference. Iv'e got a WB and i have driven quite a few HQ-HZ's and they all feel about the same really. I agree with Foam, the RTS was a scam to help sales. Anyway, who really cares, the HQ will always be the one to get if you don't want to worry about ADR's.

Yeah, you've driven a few HQ's and HZ's and you own a WB. And they're all over thirty years old.

Read my post again. It wasn't a scam and when the cars were new, there was a huge difference. And that was when I was able to drive them - when they were brand new. Not tired old dungers, or even well cared for but old cars. And they were standard, not modified in any way.

[Blown V6 Hatch]

I'll have to take your word for it, Even though i don't agree.

This is off topic anyway, if he wants to run a carbied Chev he needs a HQ regardless of how it handles. End of story.

[greenfoam]

I've only had a HQ but my brother had one of each of the H series at least and there's no real difference between them. When new as setup by the factory yes I'm sure 100% the HZ was much better but what I'm saying is that's it's all in the adjustments rather than anything else. Everyone knew at the time that RTS was nothing more than a badge and a sales pitch.

I've been in some HQ's that were stuck on the road very well at very high speeds back in the day when you could do such things, they definatly handle just fine with some harder supsension thrown at them. But yes HQ is for the win in this case

[Calaber]

I've only had a HQ but my brother had one of each of the H series at least and there's no real difference between them. When new as setup by the factory yes I'm sure 100% the HZ was much better but what I'm saying is that's it's all in the adjustments rather than anything else. Everyone knew at the time that RTS was nothing more than a badge and a sales pitch.

I've been in some HQ's that were stuck on the road very well at very high speeds back in the day when you could do such things, they definatly handle just fine with some harder supsension thrown at them. But yes HQ is for the win in this case

Foamy

As Blown V6 Hatch pointed out, we have drifted off track, so I won't labour the point past this comment.

RTS comprised new front end geometry, stiffer springs, upgraded, bigger diameter dampers with revised valving, upgraded front sway bar, stiffer control arm bushes front and rear, introduction of a standard rear sway bar (not previously fitted), wider rims, Goodyear Supersteel radials to which the suspension had been tuned, and revised steering valving for increased steering feel and response.

It's true to say that most of this stuff had been getting fitted by owners to their HQ's etc long before Holden did it, but the factory set up was well balanced and gave a response straight off the showroom floor that had not been previously available. I can't recall the cost to the company at the time, but it was an expensive upgrade that was badly overdue. Drive a brand new HX, then a brand new HZ and you soon got the drift. The HX was deplorable - a really unpleasant thing to drive on winding roads.

OK, that said, back to the OP. Yep, for freedom to modify, the HQ or even the HJ would be the best bet as both are pre ADR 27A and emissions regs were a lot less stringent when they were built.

[Jo3_Blo]

Sorry to be offtopic, but wherabouts is this suspension bloke you know of greenfoam?

[greenfoam]

He's down here in the South west with me

[Jo3_Blo]

Where's that mate? IE - which suburb?