Rods '70 HG Brougham

[old mate]

haha ari, what will we do with you.

power steering would be cool, my old mans hg has diy steering. so calaber, the hk was the only one with greasable crap in the front end/?

bear in mind mate when you do the commodore diff conversion about the diff length. commodore diff is slightly narrower than a hg diff. i think.

[Calaber]

Rod

Yeah, I've had both an HT and an HG. Their suspension settings were virtually identical so there's no difference between my HT and what your Brougham would have been fitted with originally. The HK was quite different because it had a tighter, more controlled suspension design, with greasable steel bushes in the front end instead of rubber bushes. So, if I mention HT, you can translate it directly to HG.

The HG was really only a very miinor facelift of the HT with the introduction of the Tri-matic for regular sized Holdens being the only real difference. Just about every other difference between them was cosmetic.

Ari

I'm with the other guys regarding your knowledge of the old girls. Keep with this thread and you'll learn a bit. It's all good stuff and I'm really enjoying digging deep into the memory banks for any helpful info I can come up with.

[MR.HG]

inverted my wiper motor last night so its now up in behind the firewall and all u can see in the engine bay is 3 little bolt heads and 3 washers pics soon

[ari666]

Keep with this thread and you'll learn a bit.

lol DER thats the reson i am asking these silly questions. also, i wasnt calling you out on the badge thing, just did a google search cos' i wanted to see what they looked like. its true i know very little about these ol' girls but they are probably my favorite holden ever made (shape wise) so trying to absorb as much as i can before the day i actually get one.

the reason i asked about the flutes is cos' one of stressballs shot of a charity cruise:

(soz for the pic steal stress, hope its not copywritten)

had flutes, and to be honest, i HATE them. was wondering if they were stock and if so i would have to change my sights to a regular prem, rather than a brougham.

It's all good stuff and I'm really enjoying digging deep into the memory banks for any helpful info I can come up with.

believe it or not, its much appreciated

[Blown V6 Hatch]

inverted my wiper motor last night so its now up in behind the firewall and all u can see in the engine bay is 3 little bolt heads and 3 washers pics soon

Does it work properly? When i re-located the wiper motor on my Torana, i had to put the wiper motor on the other side of the car on the inside. Reason being if you just put the wiper motor on the inside of the firewall on the same side as it was it will operate the wipers the wrong way and wipe the bonnet, not the windscreen.

HT-G front end was better than HK IMO. HK was very similar to HR with the greasable steel bushes.

But I'm a fan of the HK Brougham myself, i just love the stainless steel grille on the HK.

Fantastic project though mate, keep us up to date.

Ari, that's a Prem, not a Brougham......

[Calaber]

lol DER :the reason i asked about the flutes is cos' one of stressballs shot of a charity cruise: had flutes, and to be honest, i HATE them. was wondering if they were stock and if so i would have to change my sights to a regular prem, rather than a brougham.

Hmm, have to disagree with you about the flutes, but then, I'm a trifle biased, I guess. MOre pics of a Prem with them, plus my old 4 year resto on a GTS 350.

Rod - sorry for the intrusion, not trying to hijack the thread, which is of particular interest to me. I love the old HT's and G's, especially the Broughams. Keep us informed of progress.

[Calaber]

HT-G front end was better than HK IMO. HK was very similar to HR with the greasable steel bushes.

Those old greasable bushes were a pain to service by they lasted forever and kept the suspension alignment far more accurately, particularly if your car was a V8 and had a few k's on it. The rubber bushes were too soft and I experienced them losing the retaining bolts and washers frequently.




But I'm a fan of the HK Brougham myself, i just love the stainless steel grille on the HK.

Fantastic project though mate, keep us up to date.


Ari, that's a Prem, not a Brougham......

It's ok, he's admitted he's learning.....

[MR.HG]

that ugly rust hole under the rear window is almost finished parcel tray ready to be welded in (it was completely rotted out) it just looks better every day - cant get the sand for the blaster till tuesday so im hoping by wednesday i should be able to show you a shiny roof. all repairs done by Peter Spain

[MR.HG]

well its been a long and slow week on all fronts my panel beater put his back out lifting a bullbar and has been laid out for a week...poor guy - being a concretor i know what its like havin a bad back lol...work was slow due to rain periods but as the sun comes out this weekend - so does the welder back into the rust repairs and put the roof on hold for now - pics later today

[ari666]

soz i never called you back. got back to the hotel at 7.30 and passed out at 9 was not a fun week all round. bloody qld heating making me sweat balls.

[MR.HG]

no probs dude u didnt miss much anyway

[hi_ryder]

looks like you got some work ahead of you... im a fan of this shape. so in a nut shell whats the difference between the brougham and a premier? brougham is longer, body is stretched out couple more inches? dont make fun im an import (yank)... ive only seen these at car shows...

[Calaber]

The Brougham was a cheap attempt by Holden to match the Australian Ford Fairlane which had been released a year earlier. The Fairlane was a stretched wheelbase Falcon and gave much greater rear seat space. By comparison, the Brougham retained the 111 inch wheelbase of the Premier, but lengthened the boot only, with new rear three quarter panels, an additional panel welded to the boot floor, a longer in-fill between the rear window and boot lid, a unique (on HK's at least) boot lid, new tail-lights and upgraded external trim. Internally, the car was trimmed with expensive brocade upholstery unique to the Brougham. It was standard with a 307 or 308 V8, depending on model, whereas the Premier was standard with the 186 cube in-line 6.

The Brougham failed to convince many buyers that it was a true luxury car and was given a hard time by the motor media at the time. For many years, the Fairlane sales numbers flogged the Brougham and the Statesman that superceded it from the HQ on.

[OldDog]

Mmmmm Brougham's. I got a soft spot for these things, i reckon they look a million times better than the Premier / Kinswood etc of the same period. A mate of mine used to own one, had the 308 and Trimatic in it, we did a few mods and it went quite well for what it was. All the best with the build HG!

[hi_ryder]

The Brougham was a cheap attempt by Holden to match the Australian Ford Fairlane which had been released a year earlier. The Fairlane was a stretched wheelbase Falcon and gave much greater rear seat space. By comparison, the Brougham retained the 111 inch wheelbase of the Premier, but lengthened the boot only, with new rear three quarter panels, an additional panel welded to the boot floor, a longer in-fill between the rear window and boot lid, a unique (on HK's at least) boot lid, new tail-lights and upgraded external trim. Internally, the car was trimmed with expensive brocade upholstery unique to the Brougham. It was standard with a 307 or 308 V8, depending on model, whereas the Premier was standard with the 186 cube in-line 6.

The Brougham failed to convince many buyers that it was a true luxury car and was given a hard time by the motor media at the time. For many years, the Fairlane sales numbers flogged the Brougham and the Statesman that superceded it from the HQ on.

so when they came out they wernt as sought after as the fairlane... does that mean the production numbers were low? broughams are like hens teeth i take it....

[Calaber]

That's right, the Brougham is considered to be a failure, based on the numbers sold compared to Fairlanes. I don't know the production figures for Broughams but they were only a very small percentage of overall production between the HK, HT and HG models which ran from 1968 until 1971.

Another reason the Brougham failed was that the Fairlane not only was a longer car than the Falcon, it looked completely different. It had its own grille and four headlights compared to the Falcon's two headlights, a longer wheelbase so the rear seat room was much better and completely different rear quarter panel, boot and taillights. You couldn't really confuse a Fairlane for a Falcon and it looked like a luxury model in its day. Later Fairlanes went for even more individuality, with stacked headlights.

By comparison, the Brougham looked like a Premier from head-on and front three quarter angles. From the side, it looked a bit unbalanced with the standard wheelbase and that long boot. Only from behind was it easy to tell it wasn't a cheaper model. Because the wheelbase was unchanged, the interior space was the same as a much cheaper Belmont. Holden tried hard to convince buyers it was a real luxury car by loading it up with very expensive imported brocade nylon trim on the seats and doors and it did look a classier interior than the cheaper models. Outside, the trim used parts from the Premier, but treated with a frosted silver finish on the hubcaps, a thicker, more heavily grained vinyl roof and more ornate trim across the boot between the taillights. On the HT and HG, a new lower front valance panel was fitted with trims designed to give the impression the grille extended below the bumper bar.

Back on subject - for the OP - any further developments with this project? (and apologies for hijacking the thread)

[MR.HG]

That's right, the Brougham is considered to be a failure, based on the numbers sold compared to Fairlanes. I don't know the production figures for Broughams but they were only a very small percentage of overall production between the HK, HT and HG models which ran from 1968 until 1971.

Another reason the Brougham failed was that the Fairlane not only was a longer car than the Falcon, it looked completely different. It had its own grille and four headlights compared to the Falcon's two headlights, a longer wheelbase so the rear seat room was much better and completely different rear quarter panel, boot and taillights. You couldn't really confuse a Fairlane for a Falcon and it looked like a luxury model in its day. Later Fairlanes went for even more individuality, with stacked headlights.

By comparison, the Brougham looked like a Premier from head-on and front three quarter angles. From the side, it looked a bit unbalanced with the standard wheelbase and that long boot. Only from behind was it easy to tell it wasn't a cheaper model. Because the wheelbase was unchanged, the interior space was the same as a much cheaper Belmont. Holden tried hard to convince buyers it was a real luxury car by loading it up with very expensive imported brocade nylon trim on the seats and doors and it did look a classier interior than the cheaper models. Outside, the trim used parts from the Premier, but treated with a frosted silver finish on the hubcaps, a thicker, more heavily grained vinyl roof and more ornate trim across the boot between the taillights. On the HT and HG, a new lower front valance panel was fitted with trims designed to give the impression the grille extended below the bumper bar.

Back on subject - for the OP - any further developments with this project? (and apologies for hijacking the thread)

The reason the brougham failed was based on the price of production compared to its eventual sale price. They were far more expensive than a Fairlane making it less appealing to the market at the time. The original sale value was around $7,500.00 and the production price was around the $5,000 mark. Holden ended up lowering the price to $5,500 after failure to sell stock almost sending Holden broke.

We are currently working on the last of the rust - behind the front guards/kick panel area and the inside of the boot. all the exterior rust is fixed and we hope to get the old girl in primer in the next month or so. Its a slow project but in good hands and everything is being done properly so im not too concerned about how long this is taking. Life is busy atm and i hope to get some more pics uploaded soon.

[Calaber]

The reason the brougham failed was based on the price of production compared to its eventual sale price. They were far more expensive than a Fairlane making it less appealing to the market at the time. The original sale value was around $7,500.00 and the production price was around the $5,000 mark. Holden ended up lowering the price to $5,500 after failure to sell stock almost sending Holden broke.

We are currently working on the last of the rust - behind the front guards/kick panel area and the inside of the boot. all the exterior rust is fixed and we hope to get the old girl in primer in the next month or so. Its a slow project but in good hands and everything is being done properly so im not too concerned about how long this is taking. Life is busy atm and i hope to get some more pics uploaded soon.

Rod

I don't know where you got your information from but it's not correct regarding pricing for the Brougham. The HK Brougham sold for $3990 and this had risen to just on $4100 by the time the HG was released - I'm old enough to remember the selling price when the cars were released. It was never anywhere near $5,000 - in the late 60's and early 70's, $5k and up was European import territory. The Brougham was a very cheap and half-hearted effort to produce a luxury car, as it was 90% the same as the cheaper Premier, with 8 inches of extra boot length tacked on. It was also rushed into production because Ford caught Holden on the hop when the ZA Fairlane was released, shortly after the XR Falcon range. The HK was due for release in February 1968 and Holden had no LWB luxury car planned, so the longer boot was quickly designed and engineered as Holden's answer. You can see this fact for yourself when you look at the boot floor on your Brougham - you will see where the standard floor was used and a small extension was welded in.

Inside the car, Holden used very expensive imported brocade upholstery, but buyers weren't fooled and the Brougham was a flop. It was heavily outsold by the Fairlane, because it had the same wheelbase as the standard cars and looked little different to the Premier, whereas the Fairlane had an extended wheelbase, yielding greatly increased rear seat leg room compared to the Brougham, and had unique front and rear end styling - it looked much more upmarket than a Fairmont (and the Brougham).

Anyway, the history isn't important. It sounds like your car is progressing well.