Project Que'y

[Zeussy]

Well, I have finally decided on a project to start and hopefully finish, a HQ 1 Tonner.

A little bit of history; It was my sisters for the last 4 years, I was working on it until she ran out of money and left it in storage in my Parents Garage for like the past 3 years.
It was a 308, with a Toploader Gearbox, ####ing nuggety thing it was, too hard for my sister to drive, and apparently too powerful.

So, brilliant idea no. 1; Swap out 308 and top loader for 3.3L mildly worked, traumatic, stally, etc... Completed.
It was upto the stage of painting when she wanted it Pink. Then she ran out of money! Thankfully.

Then I bought it...

Now, the past few weeks I've been toying with many ideas, even a supercharged big block for the Tonner, but decided on the cheaper (upfront) and more fuel efficient option.

When you see pics, please hold off on the name calling, tomato throwing, and general harrassing comments such as "why the #### would ou do that..." "Are you serious..." etc..

Pics will be up tomorrow, as its hidden under heaps of stuff in the Garage, will try to clean it out and get some pics if the weathers good.



Basically need a bit of technical info:

Are "Tuff Mounts" engine mounts ok?

LS1-LS2 TUFF MOUNTS,suit HQ-WB,LH-LX,ENGINE MOUNTS,DRAG | eBay

Which sump - just the rear hump factory Holden sump?

NEW CHEVY SUMP TO SUIT EARLY HOLDEN WITH LATE MODEL GEN,LS1 ENGINE TRANSPLANT | eBay

Extractors - 4 into 1's?

EXTRACTORS GEN 3 4 LS1 LS2 V8 4-1 HQ HJ HX HZ WB HOLDEN | eBay

Or Tri-Y's?

HEADERS EXTRACTORS GEN 3/4 LS1 HQ HJ HX HZ WB HOLDEN | eBay

Wiring loom, what I need to mod it myself, or where to get it done? Will this be good enough, it can't be that hard surely?

LS1 Standalone engine harness engine conversion | eBay

A good Tuner, within cooeee of the Central Coast, or if its worth the trailer ride into Marrano's or somewhere else in Sydney.

Autometer Gauges - which ones, electronic / what will work?

Shift Kit, Stally?

Cam? Valve springs etc..

Throttle body, fly by wire is no good for me...?



Donor car is a VZ SS, LS1 - 4L60E.

most opinions and comments welcome...

[Zeussy]

VZ SS Pics:









Any one know if that little purple plug in the bottom right of the last picture is the IAT sensor?
With that not connected, would that cause it to idle low/want to stall? Or is there anything else that's supposed to be on the intake?

[VKCOMMO]

Pics are demanded!! haha

[VK SL 3800]

My neighbor up the road has an LS1 with a T56 in his HQ tonner, i dont have any info on how its fitted but holy damn does it go good. You will love the end result!

[Jonno]

any questions, or parts needed just ask,have feck loads.

[Zeussy]

Pics are demanded!! haha

Got pics of trashed VZ. No interior, no doors, nothing really just a shell.
I went to take some of the HQ but it is literally burried under heaps of shit in the garage. Took one photo but you can't even recognise what it is - thats not getting posted! Way too embarrassing... Lets just say EVERYONE else's garage is clean compared to ours

My neighbor up the road has an LS1 with a T56 in his HQ tonner, i dont have any info on how its fitted but holy damn does it go good. You will love the end result!

Haha, that's what I'm hoping!! The LS1 into HQ/early Holden has been done a 1000 times already, but theres a reason that it has - it works!

i originally wanted a 6 speed manual, but the auto came up at the right price at the right time... Plus it leaves the option to make it a 'quick' car.

any questions, or parts needed just ask,have feck loads.

Questions? How the feck do you start a VZ with no dash, steering wheel, interior/airbags, etc etc...

With a battery in it, turn the key to reds (not that you can see anything - no dash) hear the fuel pump doing it thing, wait, then try to crank and nothing... not even trying to crank.
Any idea's? Maybe P/M me!

Plus the other questions like would these parts fit/be what I'm after etc, in the first post...

What sort of parts do you have??

[ari666]

Are "Tuff Mounts" engine mounts ok?
Extractors - 4 into 1's?

Or Tri-Y's?

Wiring loom, what I need to mod it myself, or where to get it done? Will this be good enough, it can't be that hard surely?

Shift Kit, Stally?

Cam? Valve springs etc..

Throttle body, fly by wire is no good for me...?



Donor car is a VZ SS, LS1 - 4L60E.

tough mounts are a good novelty. but that novelty will wear off when the fillings in your teeth fall out. SO many vibrations. especially if you go lumpy on the cam

tri y's and 4-1's both have their uses. personally if the car spends most its time between 1500-3000rpm then go tri's if its a 8000rpm screamer or turbo/supercharged then go 4-1's. but this is a pretty hotly debated subject and comes down to personal choice.

the loom cant be that hard. you managed to find any diagrams? how much wiring work have you done in the past?

stally/cam/springs is all up to you bro. thats the first decision YOU need to make and stick to it. they all gotta match up or you are wasting your time/money/fuel. what you want the car to achieve, how often will use use it, wheres its rpm gonna be mostly? once you have decided on those things, you cant really change your mind without changing all three things.

flyby wire will be great. its just a matter of wiring it up really.block off the old speedo cable holes with dynamat or something and steal the pedal set from the donor car.

[Zeussy]

So tough mounts are for real men ari? HQ's were never really the smoothest most comfortable ride anyway?!
Well, if not tough mounts, what other brand will fit the LS1 into the HQ? I've heard mixed reports about a few of the bigger companies, so wary to try any of their proucts...

Its not going to be a daily, so, hmm, not sure yet - I suppose either will do basically as well as each other - I'll still be able to drive it if I pick the wrong one for my application! I like the look of 4into1's, so as long as they fit..

Found a really good post on Third Gen . org
LS1 harness: Start to finish - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

So looks like its possible to have a play, should be able to do it no worries, had a bit of auto-electrical experience. Most of the info is there, plus, Hak's doing one for his bimmer so I'll pick his brain!

Direction I want this build to take - basically stock internals, cam, valve springs, tune, would like 300rwkw for now. But still want drive-ability and fuel economy.
Like the idea of it tame enough to be a nice cruiser, but still be wild enough to fill my needs!

You have a point, will probably be cheaper to use the FBW aswell.. Seeing as how its already there.



Need to order:
Engine mounts - so then I can mount it in the HQ and check for clearance between the block and cross member then -
Rear hump Sump - or just order them both and hope the sump fits... Then -
Extractors - and hope they fit with the engine mounts, while playing with the loom, then start on the fuel system, etc, tuners, etc, $$$ etc...

Only thing is, to order the engine mounts, check fit, then order the sump, check fit, then order the extractors, check fit etc its going to take weeks, and I'm impatient.
Not to mention working too much, I'm having next weekend (the long weekend) off, so would like to have a good go at it then.

Thinking seriously about ordering those three things straight up now, and hope for the best! Opinions?

[Blown V6 Hatch]

tough mounts are a good novelty. but that novelty will wear off when the fillings in your teeth fall out. SO many vibrations. especially if you go lumpy on the cam

Bullshit, have you ever used them Ari? My boss has a blown 454 in an HQ that's solid mounted and you wouldn't even know it was solid mounted if you weren't told. It's as smooth as any other HQ.

Nice project Zeussy, just a shame you're going with the "sheep" LS1 conversion. So sick of seeing LS1's in early girls.

We need pics though....

[nemesis_adrasteia]

Bullshit, have you ever used them Ari? My boss has a blown 454 in an HQ that's solid mounted and you wouldn't even know it was solid mounted if you weren't told. It's as smooth as any other HQ.

Nice project Zeussy, just a shame you're going with the "sheep" LS1 conversion. So sick of seeing LS1's in early girls.

We need pics though....

agreed!

can the LS1 this thing needs some import lovin! :P

but seriously though, awesome build!

[Zeussy]

Bullshit, have you ever used them Ari? My boss has a blown 454 in an HQ that's solid mounted and you wouldn't even know it was solid mounted if you weren't told. It's as smooth as any other HQ.

Nice project Zeussy, just a shame you're going with the "sheep" LS1 conversion. So sick of seeing LS1's in early girls.

We need pics though....

Yeah, tbh I'm not 100% sold on the idea, I think they look ugly, especially in an early engine bay - too many wires etc.. But its just too hard to argue with the pro's. Easy power, fuel economy, lots of parts available, etc.

I missed out on that supercharged 454, so had a rethink, and for $15,000 I could well and truely have this on the road, instead of just a motor.

Don't say I didn't warn you guys... This is soo fecking embarrassing... :

agreed!

can the LS1 this thing needs some import lovin! :P

but seriously though, awesome build!

Have been looking a Supra's, and 200sx's / Silvia's prior to starting this build, but not 100% sure if I'd fit in one...

Cheers mate, should go alright in the end, while still being fairly reliable. A nice work ute!

[nemesis_adrasteia]

Yeah, tbh I'm not 100% sold on the idea, I think they look ugly, especially in an early engine bay - too many wires etc.. But its just too hard to argue with the pro's. Easy power, fuel economy, lots of parts available, etc.

I missed out on that supercharged 454, so had a rethink, and for $15,000 I could well and truely have this on the road, instead of just a motor.

Don't say I didn't warn you guys... This is soo fecking embarrassing... :








Have been looking a Supra's, and 200sx's / Silvia's prior to starting this build, but not 100% sure if I'd fit in one...

Cheers mate, should go alright in the end, while still being fairly reliable. A nice work ute!

you got it all wrong man, 2JZ(no shit) into a HQ. *dons flame suit*

[Zeussy]

you got it all wrong man, 2JZ(no shit) into a HQ. *dons flame suit*

lol


Anyone know what sump I'd need, there's two..?

This one specifically says for HQ,

GM PERFORMANCE CAMARO GEN 3 OIL PAN / SUMP. REAR HUMP | eBay

But this is the style one that I've been looking at for a while, although I think it hangs down below the crossmember..?

NEW CHEV GEN 3 5.7 - 6.0 REAR HUMP SUMP & PICK UP. | eBay

[one_and_only2004]

Direction I want this build to take - basically stock internals, cam, valve springs, tune, would like 300rwkw for now. But still want drive-ability and fuel economy.
Like the idea of it tame enough to be a nice cruiser, but still be wild enough to fill my needs!

You're not going to get 300rwkw out of an LS1 running stock internals, cams and what not. I'd be running valve springs (at bare minimum) and a VCM cam, which is going to be pretty thirsty on fuel if you want the power you're after.
Go 4-into-1's - tri-y's are a waste of time if you want to make power above 2000rpm. I have dyno graphs of two identical cammed L98's with tri y's and 4 into 1's and the latter rapes it in power delivery.

[Zeussy]

You're not going to get 300rwkw out of an LS1 running stock internals, cams and what not. I'd be running valve springs (at bare minimum) and a VCM cam, which is going to be pretty thirsty on fuel if you want the power you're after.
Go 4-into-1's - tri-y's are a waste of time if you want to make power above 2000rpm. I have dyno graphs of two identical cammed L98's with tri y's and 4 into 1's and the latter rapes it in power delivery.

Hmm, I think you miss-interpreted what I was saying, or I should've added another full stop.

Direction I want this build to take - basically stock internals. Cam, valve springs, tune, would like 300rwkw for now. But still want drive-ability and fuel economy.
Like the idea of it tame enough to be a nice cruiser, but still be wild enough to fill my needs!

As in, stock bottom end, but changing the cam, and valve springs, then getting a tune.

Pretty thirsty on fuel? All the time, or only when you're up it? Lets face it who drives a car flat out, all the time? I know I wouldn't.
There's a tonne of guys 'claiming' to be getting 300rwkw out of LSx's with a simple cam/springs change, while retaining fuel economy and drive-ability.

Although, it looks like 4into1's are the go then, I want this thing to rev.

[one_and_only2004]

Ah righto, it's amazing how a full stop changes everything!
Driving around in Brisbane traffic for the weekend yielded 17.5L/100km for me in my cammed 6L, I didn't thrash it at all, just poked around as I'm living off $300 for the week. Usually people brag about their excellent 8L/100km on the highway after a tune and good fuel economy in town as well, but the computer lies an awful lot and I work out my averages the old fashioned way.
A mate of mine has a 23x/24x cam in his LS1, the most power they can get from it is 350hp at the treads and it's an absolute shitter to drive.

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of cam only 6L's running around making 300+ rwkw but they're a higher compression motor with much better flowing heads.

[Blown V6 Hatch]

Just put a Chev in it and be done with it. Easier, cheaper and easy to get power out of (not saying an LS1 isn't easy to get power out of, but getting power out of a Small block Chev is easy aswell).

[Zeussy]

Ah righto, it's amazing how a full stop changes everything!
Driving around in Brisbane traffic for the weekend yielded 17.5L/100km for me in my cammed 6L, I didn't thrash it at all, just poked around as I'm living off $300 for the week. Usually people brag about their excellent 8L/100km on the highway after a tune and good fuel economy in town as well, but the computer lies an awful lot and I work out my averages the old fashioned way.
A mate of mine has a 23x/24x cam in his LS1, the most power they can get from it is 350hp at the treads and it's an absolute shitter to drive.

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of cam only 6L's running around making 300+ rwkw but they're a higher compression motor with much better flowing heads.

LOL, yeah, its happened a couple of times, I'm usually in a bit of a rush typing so I don't always proof read my posts...

Ahh well, main reason for going LSx conversion over old school carby is, drive-ability and fuel economy, if I can't have that and decent power then will have to sacrifice on the power.

At the end of the day, I don't care how much power it has, a cam and spring upgrade will most likely happen, mid-ish stally, beefed up box, 3.9-ish gears, and I'll have fun cruising around in it all day long ripping skids for the slutty gangas out the front of the local macca's.

Its probably the 6L's that have been claiming those figures, I don't pay that much attention to it all...

[Zeussy]

Just put a Chev in it and be done with it. Easier, cheaper and easy to get power out of (not saying an LS1 isn't easy to get power out of, but getting power out of a Small block Chev is easy aswell).

I started with a V6, everyone's like get a 5L, I wanted to rebuild the 5L, everyone's like get an LS1, now I've got an LS1 you bring up SBC's? Then BBC's. Then a 'Big Paw'

Will this madness ever end???!!!

[nemesis_adrasteia]

I started with a V6, everyone's like get a 5L, I wanted to rebuild the 5L, everyone's like get an LS1, now I've got an LS1 you bring up SBC's? Then BBC's. Then a 'Big Paw'

Will this madness ever end???!!!

speaking of V6s what happened to your VH?

[Zeussy]

speaking of V6s what happened to your VH?

Its probably going to get scrapped soon. No room on the driveway any more

[Morton]

I like where this is going The only things that ushered me away from ever doing an LS1 conversion is the cost of replacement parts:

1) $150 worth of spark plugs
2) $600 worth of coil packs
3) $120 worth of oil per change
4) OMG WIRING

But otherwise it's true, the pros outweigh the cons if you're willing to spend the time getting it running right.

Now clear all that SHIT off the back of your tonner and get to work

[Blown V6 Hatch]

I started with a V6, everyone's like get a 5L, I wanted to rebuild the 5L, everyone's like get an LS1, now I've got an LS1 you bring up SBC's? Then BBC's. Then a 'Big Paw'

Will this madness ever end???!!!

I can see the benefits of the LS1, no doubt they're a good engine. However, i like to "try" and do different things and nearly every car i see now has an LS1, it just gets a bit boring that's all. In fact, i see the LS1 as todays EFI 5 litre conversion of 5-6 years ago, they used to be everywhere but now the LS1 has taken over. Now, i actually find it refreshing to see an EFI 5 litre in an early girl over the sea of LS1's.

However, like i've said before, my next car will have a carby SBC (i've actually stumbled across an LH sedan which will be my next project, but that's off topic).

[Zeussy]

I like where this is going The only things that ushered me away from ever doing an LS1 conversion is the cost of replacement parts:

1) $150 worth of spark plugs
2) $600 worth of coil packs
3) $120 worth of oil per change
4) OMG WIRING

But otherwise it's true, the pros outweigh the cons if you're willing to spend the time getting it running right.

Bahaha, I hear you, everything's more expensive, even engine mounts! For a 5L you can get mounts for next to nothing!

Are you supposed to use full synthetic oil in these alloy pigs? :/ Crap... lol.

I'm kind of looking forward to doing the wiring side of things, don't mind it, a bit time consuming, but if you take your time it can make an engine bay - not seeing any/many wires wondering how its running/wired up. Especially since I have stumbled across a fairly detailed post on another forum, basically showing step by step how to modify a loom, just need the VZ's engine/computer wiring diagram, with numbered pinouts, and should be good as gold!

Now clear all that SHIT off the back of your tonner and get to work

Sir yes Sir!

I can see the benefits of the LS1, no doubt they're a good engine. However, i like to "try" and do different things and nearly every car i see now has an LS1, it just gets a bit boring that's all. In fact, i see the LS1 as todays EFI 5 litre conversion of 5-6 years ago, they used to be everywhere but now the LS1 has taken over. Now, i actually find it refreshing to see an EFI 5 litre in an early girl over the sea of LS1's.

However, like i've said before, my next car will have a carby SBC (i've actually stumbled across an LH sedan which will be my next project, but that's off topic).

Yeah I understand what you're saying completely, I was/used to be like that. But for a little while I've been trying to "walk in the many's footsteps."

Apparently its easier not to "re-design the wheel."

Although all I have is headaches and a lack of solid info, so looks like I'll be pioneering this build - with my apparent lack of "finding stuff on the interwebs" skills... Wasting time, and probably money along the way. :/


You wouldn't happen to know where a couple of detailed build ups of early Holdens with LSx's in them are, would you? Can't seem to find much around. And if I do its all contradicting info.
It seems 5-6 years ago they were the rage, and everybody was doing it. But now alot of them either didn't get finished, or their posts didn't get updated and the owners have perished and disapeared..!

Oh, and off topic is good, keeps the motarvation high hearing about other projects!

[Blown V6 Hatch]

I'm busy at the moment, but i'll post a bit later with some info. What exactly do you want to know? I've fitted an LS1 to an HR in the past so i should be able to guide you.