Immigrant education scam

[Cobez]

Thousands of Indians are being enrolled in "dodgy" courses in Australia, while others are paying up to $20,000 for a good result in the International English Language Test System exam, an investigation into the overseas student industry has found.

Following a recent spate of attacks on Indian students in Australia, The Australian reports the nation's $14-billion international education sector has turned into a recognised immigration racket.

Last week, police arrested three people in Punjab, the main feeder community for Indian students in Australia, for impersonation and forgery after they were caught sitting the IELTS exam for aspiring foreign students.

Other scams have involved operators across the Punjab arranging "contract marriages" for aspiring migrants to partners who have passed the mandatory English test for a student visa.

For an additional fee, agents have arranged bank documents and loans to satisfy Australian immigration law that demands students have the means to support themselves for the duration of their course, the newspaper says.

There are 500,000 international students living in Australia. Of these, 20 per cent are Indian.

Universities on average rely on international students for 15 per cent of their revenue.



Taken from Yahoo7:

Australia's overseas education 'a scam' - Yahoo!7 News



Now i'm going to assume this thread will be locked before 6pm due to idiots who fire back at comments other people make, so hopefully some of us can discuss this topic maturely before that happens in a few hours

[minux]

Simple fix, **** them off and don't let them here. Free's up jobs for Aussies, free's up education places.

**** everyone else who doesn't live here.

[Cobez]

Ok, make that 4pm this thread will be closed

But seriously, i do agree, but i'd like to hear everyone's opinions on this. TRY to keep the extreme racism out of here, i'm sure one of our friendly mods will lock it up if that kinda gear gets posted. Do what i do, save the racist stuff for face to face comments

Hopefully this issue will bring forward stronger and alot more stringent testing screening etc for immigrants who wish to come to this country. Would be nice if they cut immigration off altogether, but our government loves rolling in several hundred thousand dollar bills before they sleep at night.

[-Junior-]

Simple fix, **** them off and don't let them here. Free's up jobs for Aussies, free's up education places.

**** everyone else who doesn't live here.

+1 ^^^

Agree with all of what you said.

[Cobez]

Man there would have been some healthy debate between the Aussie's and Indians at work today over this lol, glad i had the day off.

[BrAdAsS]

Simple fix, **** them off and don't let them here. Free's up jobs for Aussies, free's up education places.

**** everyone else who doesn't live here.
+1 ^^^

Agree with all of what you said.

That makes 3 of us. Before they even had the english literacy test this was going on. It's nothing new, just brought into the spotlight as it's now tied to the new test.

[MikesCalais]

Ahhhh I was going to post, but seeing as you don't want this thread closed I wont

[Cobez]

Hey man it's 6:10pm, it lasted longer than i expected

[hsvpunk]

Minux, is right on the money.
But some people jsut dont understand that.

I had a job for the indians yesterday (to clean bricks for my new front fence).

[ClairBear]

I guess the call centres are full in India, so they are looking outside their own country for employment.

Sorry, our call centres are full too... try UK

[ephect]

i think its bullshit. i dont care what race or culture rocks up, but just enjoy our country as it is, and dont try to change our nation, if you dont like it, go somewhere else. I think the aussie way has been taken advantage of due to our tollarent nature.

Canberra needs to curb this crap and say no for a while...

[Cobez]

I guess the call centres are full in India, so they are looking outside their own country for employment.

Sorry, our call centres are full too... try UK

Nope, UK has tonnes of Indian workers as well. Alot of them have come FROM the UK to Australia.

Try NZ or Rwanda.

[danja]

Simple fix, **** them off and don't let them here. Free's up jobs for Aussies, free's up education places.

**** everyone else who doesn't live here.

I hope you're being sarcastic here?

There are plenty of spots for Aussie kids in uni, in fact I can't ever recall hearing of a student turned away from uni because they were "full"? The government invests huge amounts of money in supporting local students.

Jobs? We have a skilled migration policy, and if you're not qualified in a job that's in demand here, it's bloody hard to get in. I assume you're not that worried about the uni students taking all the jobs at Maccas.

If there are locals losing out to migrants, they should try harder instead of expecting everything on a ****ing platter.

[Cobez]

Yes but, not firing back aggressively here either, alot of immigrant students etc will work for alot less than most of us would, wouldn't you say that alot of employers would find that more tempting (obviously due to saving money, especially with our economy the way it is?).

Ok i know that as for unemployed people, they can't whinge that the wage would be too low, they should be happy they got a job, but, let's say for instance, joe blow average is earning $19 an hour, then gets the sack due to cost cutting, then goes for another job that's also $19 an hour, and is up against 3 immigrants willing to work for $12 an hour and they get the job over joe blow average because they state they will work for less, don't you think that's a little unfair?

It's happened alot, i know of several work places where they dropped the hourly rate when hiring due to the fact indian and african workers were willing to work for less because it's more than they have ever earned before.

[danja]

Yes but, not firing back aggressively here either, alot of immigrant students etc will work for alot less than most of us would, wouldn't you say that alot of employers would find that more tempting (obviously due to saving money, especially with our economy the way it is?).

Ok i know that as for unemployed people, they can't whinge that the wage would be too low, they should be happy they got a job, but, let's say for instance, joe blow average is earning $19 an hour, then gets the sack due to cost cutting, then goes for another job that's also $19 an hour, and is up against 3 immigrants willing to work for $12 an hour and they get the job over joe blow average because they state they will work for less, don't you think that's a little unfair?

It's happened alot, i know of several work places where they dropped the hourly rate when hiring due to the fact indian and african workers were willing to work for less because it's more than they have ever earned before.

I have a few things to say about that.

1) That is the nature of supply and demand, it works at all levels of the economy. It also translates into cheaper prices for you as a consumer.

2) If you run a consultancy firm, and you apply for a contract that has gone out for tender, quoting $25,000 for the work, and win the tender because the next best offer to do the same work was $30,000 - are you being unfair? No, you're being competitive.

3) All employment is about value proposition, money is not the sole consideration, and the higher up the labour tree you go - the more true that becomes. Low/no skill jobs like fryer technicians and shelf supervisors might be easy to undercut in wage terms, but thats all the more incentive to gain a skilled profession, a trend which greatly benefits the economy and the whole country.

A couple of questions for you:

1) Would you complain about Aussie's offering their skills at $12, instead of $19? Funnily enough I've never heard anyone raise that objection, by pure coincidence I'm sure it always comes up when it's someone other than Whitey...

2) Think about all the times you've seen people selling a car for $15,000, when you know the market will be lucky to pay $10,000 for it - in those cases you say the seller is nuts! He's asking for too much money! What a fool! But fundamentally, that's exactly the same scenario. Someone has an asset they are trying to trade for money, and they have a certain expectation about it's value to others, but due to market forces that expectation is unrealistic - thus they find it hard to sell. Why is this any different?

[padrickz88]

I hope you're being sarcastic here?

There are plenty of spots for Aussie kids in uni, in fact I can't ever recall hearing of a student turned away from uni because they were "full"? The government invests huge amounts of money in supporting local students.

Jobs? We have a skilled migration policy, and if you're not qualified in a job that's in demand here, it's bloody hard to get in. I assume you're not that worried about the uni students taking all the jobs at Maccas.

If there are locals losing out to migrants, they should try harder instead of expecting everything on a ****ing platter.

You pretty much summed up everything i was going to say.....
Im to tired to argue lol but i will say one thing, "a lot" of indians work damn hard and they also do the shit jobs alot of people dont want to...
So how about we think about that before we take the piss out of them
And can you blame them for pulling dodgy shit to get into this country? its a fantastic place to live, every indian i have asked has said they want to make a life here because its fantastic....
Thats more pride then a lot of aussies have.

[minux]

1) That is the nature of supply and demand, it works at all levels of the economy. It also translates into cheaper prices for you as a consumer.

Cheaper prices? What a crock, got any evidence of this? The local shell servo here now employs almost all Indians after sacking most of the Australian citizens who worked there, prices on items have not changed, yet the pay certainly has.

2) If you run a consultancy firm, and you apply for a contract that has gone out for tender, quoting $25,000 for the work, and win the tender because the next best offer to do the same work was $30,000 - are you being unfair? No, you're being competitive.

This is part of the exact reason Labor are scrapping workchoices, companies were hiring scab labour on construction jobs etc and undercutting everyone making it near impossible for an employer who employs national citizens and pay fair wages. This is the only part of workchoices I did not like, the tender process could be rigged because of bad employers who employed cash/illegal workers etc.

3) All employment is about value proposition, money is not the sole consideration, and the higher up the labour tree you go - the more true that becomes. Low/no skill jobs like fryer technicians and shelf supervisors might be easy to undercut in wage terms, but thats all the more incentive to gain a skilled profession, a trend which greatly benefits the economy and the whole country.

lol, yes a country of skilled professionals will really work, sadly we need these shit kicker jobs, even more so we need them for people living here, not people buying their way into the country.

1) Would you complain about Aussie's offering their skills at $12, instead of $19? Funnily enough I've never heard anyone raise that objection, by pure coincidence I'm sure it always comes up when it's someone other than Whitey...

If aussies offered their services at 12, the others would go lower, its how these people work. I am not sure how we got onto whiteys though? I thought the discussion was about Australian citizens?

[TrikkBen]

I have a few things to say about that.

1) That is the nature of supply and demand, it works at all levels of the economy. It also translates into cheaper prices for you as a consumer.

2) If you run a consultancy firm, and you apply for a contract that has gone out for tender, quoting $25,000 for the work, and win the tender because the next best offer to do the same work was $30,000 - are you being unfair? No, you're being competitive.

3) All employment is about value proposition, money is not the sole consideration, and the higher up the labour tree you go - the more true that becomes. Low/no skill jobs like fryer technicians and shelf supervisors might be easy to undercut in wage terms, but thats all the more incentive to gain a skilled profession, a trend which greatly benefits the economy and the whole country.

A couple of questions for you:

1) Would you complain about Aussie's offering their skills at $12, instead of $19? Funnily enough I've never heard anyone raise that objection, by pure coincidence I'm sure it always comes up when it's someone other than Whitey...

2) Think about all the times you've seen people selling a car for $15,000, when you know the market will be lucky to pay $10,000 for it - in those cases you say the seller is nuts! He's asking for too much money! What a fool! But fundamentally, that's exactly the same scenario. Someone has an asset they are trying to trade for money, and they have a certain expectation about it's value to others, but due to market forces that expectation is unrealistic - thus they find it hard to sell. Why is this any different?

Danja,
You miss the fact that if the Competitors(Indian/Africans) have no right to be able to do the job for less money because they are not legally ment to be here given what post one explains... I agree with you is some respects, but on the other hand, without any racisim intended, I would give the Aussie the job Before the Indian, Given they were equally experianced, purely because of my morals... This is another personal opinion thing... this thread isn't going to go anywhere..

[Crossy_014]

te governmnt should "rent out" UNI and TAFE corses because yes the country makes a qiuck buck but in the long run it is australia that comes off second best because the immagrant stuents take their new skills back to china or india or wherever, and then we wonder why our country is slowly drowning in debt

[Crossy_014]

** shouldnt

[ClairBear]

te governmnt should "rent out" UNI and TAFE corses because yes the country makes a qiuck buck but in the long run it is australia that comes off second best because the immagrant stuents take their new skills back to china or india or wherever, and then we wonder why our country is slowly drowning in debt

Whilst our own citizens cannot grasp the English language!

[Jimmyblonde]

Why worry. People who are not up to the job will soon be caught short and end up on the poverty line. It really doesn't cost us that much and we need the cheap labour.

[danja]

Cheaper prices? What a crock, got any evidence of this? The local shell servo here now employs almost all Indians after sacking most of the Australian citizens who worked there, prices on items have not changed, yet the pay certainly has.

Lower labour prices translating to lower product prices is a crock? The Chinese export market is a pretty good place to start if you want evidence..

You've pick an absurd example to illustrate your point. Servos are operated as franchises, meaning that Shell is isn't saving any money from having cheap labour in their servos, yet the supply the fuel. The outlet margins on petrol are poor to start with, and it's already an extremely competitive market. Labour factors little into it, but speaking of it, have you got any evidence that wages at your servo have dropped?

This is part of the exact reason Labor are scrapping workchoices, companies were hiring scab labour on construction jobs etc and undercutting everyone making it near impossible for an employer who employs national citizens and pay fair wages. This is the only part of workchoices I did not like, the tender process could be rigged because of bad employers who employed cash/illegal workers etc.

I might print that out and frame it, Minux speaking in favour of the unions and collective bargaining

lol, yes a country of skilled professionals will really work, sadly we need these shit kicker jobs, even more so we need them for people living here, not people buying their way into the country.

No need to be flippant, you know we're not talking about every person in the country being a skilled worker. You need a skeleton crew to provide the basic services, but has been becoming increasingly skilled-services based for some time.

Some interesting stats:
- Australia's 2nd largest export sector (behind minerals/resources) are services.
- Our 3rd largest export is education (y'know, all those Indians "buying their way in")

But hey, lets just tell them to get ****ed yeah? The economy will be fine. Then we can all throw away our Xbox's, for our kids will play with squirrels

If aussies offered their services at 12, the others would go lower, its how these people work. I am not sure how we got onto whiteys though? I thought the discussion was about Australian citizens?

I bring up Whitey because no one else ever does. As soon as people perceive an injustice committed on our upstanding locals, by those filthy, shifty, dark foreigners there's outrage and bloody murder, but no one would bat an eyelid if they heard about Aussies treating each other this way, which I have no doubt they do on a regular basis. Quite frankly, most of what I see in this thread, and others like it, is a lot of thinly veiled racism that doesn't make any logical sense or stand up to scrutiny.

[Crossy_014]

Whilst our own citizens cannot grasp the English language!

haha smartass

[danja]

Danja,
You miss the fact that if the Competitors(Indian/Africans) have no right to be able to do the job for less money because they are not legally ment to be here given what post one explains...

I'm not talking about illegal immigrants here, I have no time for them either. I'm talking about people who gone through the proper channels to get into the country, not been smuggled in or overstayed their visas etc.

I agree with you is some respects, but on the other hand, without any racisim intended, I would give the Aussie the job Before the Indian, Given they were equally experianced, purely because of my morals... This is another personal opinion thing...

What you're talking about there is entirely natural human nature, and I don't particularly have any problem with that.

That however, is employer ethics, and if you want to take that line you need to be directing criticism at the employers, not the immigrant employees. In the same way you wouldn't blame someone selling their car cheap because they want a quick sale, and are willing to sacrifice a little profit, how can you blame workers for offering their labour for lower than the market average?