Who the bloody hell bash's paramedics...

[danja]

It's possible you guys are confusing what is ideal, with what is practical.

Ideally, I mostly agree with Minux - why should we have to pay for some dropkick who bought some back meth, or some drunk wanker who punch a window a sliced up his arm? We shouldn't. Those kinds of incidents are idiotic, self-inflicted, completely avoidable acts of stupidity, and people should wear the consequences in my opinion, by paying for any care they receive.

The practical problem in reality is identifying which category people fall into - obesity would be a prime example, where many get morbidly obese due completely to crap food and a sedentary lifestyle, others have more legitimate causes. How to you prove reliably which is which?

For me the issue isn't the justice, it's the chance the justice will not be applied accurately.

[cracker]

They are there to help people who need help, junkies need help with a bullet, we should not have to waste resources helping these people who refuse to help themselves.

As for thinking before I type, just because I do not carry the same tree hugging hippy mentality of lets help everyone, does not mean I have not thought about what I have said. I'd much rather know a paramedic is available to help someone who has suffered a stroke or something instead of out helping some deadbeat scumbag who has overdosed again.[/QUOTE]

not everyone who takes drugs is a junkie.

tree hugging hippy mentality, hardly i call it reality.
suffered a stroke? stroke brought on by that last line of coke...?

i can fully understand where your coming from but in the real world its not that clean cut.
things people do, choices they make can sometimes turn into bad shit happening. which is then later resoloved in a court of law to determine who was at fault
not on the street, bar, pub, office or bank by a paramedic.

you cant argue at all that a paramedic has to choose which people to treat
then and there!
because of what they think might have happened to them and if that happening icluded the use or misuse of an illegal substance is not thier call because they wont know straight away!

hell im with you 100% id rather see some poor person who has fallen from a building site being helped rather then some herion addict who has just shoot a load of smack up his arm, but its never going to happen because of the following LOGICAL arguments iv just made.

[tonza]

Paramedics should have the power, if they see it unsafe, to refuse help to someone who is threatening/violent/attacking.
They should be able to say, Nah sorry mate you obviously dont want/need our help, catch ya later.
Provide it to those who need it.
Big ups to our medics though

[Maci]

(before anything else, im NOT a paramedic, but my grandfather has taught advanced first aid and all the like for many, many years and this is what i've been taught, please correct my typing faults if any)

The first things you get taught in even a basic first aid course is:
1) will helping the person (regardless of what the issue is) cause harm to me? (wether it be the car might catch fire, the person might lash out etc.)
2) its also suggested that you say something along the lines of "hey mate, my name is 'name' and im here to help you out, would you like me to take a look at your 'body part'?" you have no reason to help anyone who says no f##k off dont help me.
3) if the person is unconscious it comes down to you and in an ambulance officers position their duty of care, they signed up to help people, and i know paramedics that HATE getting that callout to the nightclub from an OD, wether it be their fault or wether it be someone slipped something into someones drink. Once they get there they dont have time to ask questions, they just do what they're there for and save that guy or girls life.
Its not always foolproof and people die, and there is probably times where people having a heart attack lying in bed in the middle of the night dont get the help they need but thats life, there aren't enough ambo's, and irrespective of whats done there probably never will be.

IMHO, no matter how healthy or unhealthy i or anyone i know may be, when my number comes up, i will die, and noone will be able to stop that, its god's will, im not an incredibly religious man, but i do believe there is a god who decides when our expiry date really is. i dont mean this in a way of go do whatever you want whenever you want, obviously.
"we're born, we live, we die"

[satos]

I have seen a few times while driving my car paramedics trying to resuscitate a druggy who has overdosed on heroin on the street.I say what a waste of resources trying to bring back these dead beats when someone else could be be needing their help.Leave them where they lie one less to worry about.

[50LTRv8]

how are they meant to distinguish between someone who has been, given a roofie, or had g put in their drink and are ****ed off that?
are they to be treated as...oh well they look like they have been drinking way too much, let them be, they wanted this or flipped the coin and took the risk.

ambos are arnt there to judge if your in the wrong or right, they are there to help. and i very much doubt anyone set out to drink too much or to drug too much and end up in a state which the require attention. i think pretty much everyone at one point in their life has made the mistake of drinking or any other substance alittle too much and required some help.


think before you...type.

This is exactly right, what is the medic supposed to do, decide if you should live or die? They will never have the full story as to why a person needs their help when they get to a scene. They are there to stabilise the patient before taking them to hospital if required.

So Minux, your a paramedic, how do you choose who lives or dies and what evidence do you use to decide this? and what happens when you find out that the person you let die because you think it was drugs actually died from something else?

[minux]

So Minux, your a paramedic, how do you choose who lives or dies and what evidence do you use to decide this? and what happens when you find out that the person you let die because you think it was drugs actually died from something else?

If it is an OD i'd keep eating my salad and not even bother going out. Fight due to being drunk? keep drinking my milk. Paramedics are generally made aware of a situation before they get there. What happens if someone died and it wasnt from an OD? Meh, i'd go back to work the next day like nothing happened, shit happens.

When you have been where I have been and seen what I have seen, you realise death is meaningless. People get caught up with it far too much. Life is not precious, it is just short. If people want to put themselves into positions where it shortens an already short existence, they do not deserve help.

[50LTRv8]

Your capacity for compassion makes you a great human being minux. Needless to say if you were the paramedic who turned up to a family member and decided not to help them I would not be saying shit happens.

[-scyth-]

Heres a bit of a twist of the topic....

I'm a paramedic here in melb (currently on holidays ) but here's the story....

We got dispatched to a psych patient who was quote (acting strange). Get there & the patient was on ice. Heaps of evidence of drug use in the home. Got the cops involved for our own safety (common sense) & transported patient to hospital with police escort on board. during my whole time assessing & treating etc (maybe a whole 90mins worth), he was abusive, threatening to shoot me, treatening to kill me, to kill my wife & kids (im not married but alright that's a pretty decent threat) & openly pointed out & was shouting out racial taunts to me (yes im not full blown aussie looking). there was more abuse & taunting by him directed at me the whole time but im not going to type this here.

anyway since the police helped me transport this patient, were at the hospital while this patient was in a psych room; still pacing the room & verbally threatening to kill me. The police officer i was talking to was by chance standing next to me infront of the doorway of the psych room that the patient was in & as quick as a flash, the psych patient who was earlier threatening to shoot me, grabbed the officers gun & tried to pull it out of her holster at the same time screaming in my face that hers going to ****ing blow my brains out... as soon as i saw his hand touch the officers gun, i drooped what ever was in my hands & punched him in the jaw breaking it in several places. once he fell to the ground almost all of the emergence staff at the hospital jumped on him & eventually he was subdued.

That punch was in pure self defence & funilly enough, the ambulance service backed me up & dismissed the case as 'an act of self defence'.

but yeah, ambos being bashed is not right. but at the same time clear & sound judgement by the crew should be adhered to at all times.

[shiftySLE]

When you have been where I have been and seen what I have seen, you realise death is meaningless. People get caught up with it far too much. Life is not precious, it is just short. If people want to put themselves into positions where it shortens an already short existence, they do not deserve help.

Is death still meaningless if it is your family/friends? Just for an example, what would you do if you found out the ambos kept eating their sandwich or drinking their milk if your best mate was in a car wreck coz he was street dragging and they said 'ah well, he was being stupid, he deserves it'. Just out of interest what have you seen and where have you been? I'm not having a go, I just want to know what gives you that way of thinking?

[50LTRv8]

Heres a bit of a twist of the topic....

I'm a paramedic here in melb (currently on holidays ) but here's the story....

We got dispatched to a psych patient who was quote (acting strange). Get there & the patient was on ice. Heaps of evidence of drug use in the home. Got the cops involved for our own safety (common sense) & transported patient to hospital with police escort on board. during my whole time assessing & treating etc (maybe a whole 90mins worth), he was abusive, threatening to shoot me, treatening to kill me, to kill my wife & kids (im not married but alright that's a pretty decent threat) & openly pointed out & was shouting out racial taunts to me (yes im not full blown aussie looking). there was more abuse & taunting by him directed at me the whole time but im not going to type this here.

anyway since the police helped me transport this patient, were at the hospital while this patient was in a psych room; still pacing the room & verbally threatening to kill me. The police officer i was talking to was by chance standing next to me infront of the doorway of the psych room that the patient was in & as quick as a flash, the psych patient who was earlier threatening to shoot me, grabbed the officers gun & tried to pull it out of her holster at the same time screaming in my face that hers going to ****ing blow my brains out... as soon as i saw his hand touch the officers gun, i drooped what ever was in my hands & punched him in the jaw breaking it in several places. once he fell to the ground almost all of the emergence staff at the hospital jumped on him & eventually he was subdued.

That punch was in pure self defence & funilly enough, the ambulance service backed me up & dismissed the case as 'an act of self defence'.

but yeah, ambos being bashed is not right. but at the same time clear & sound judgement by the crew should be adhered to at all times.

I am full blown aussie looking and I don't care if your asian, middle eastern, pommie or a yank, I would more than gladly accept help from a paramedic of any descent.

The other side of the coin is that anyone who abuses, threatens or attacks a paramedic (or anyone in the medical profession) should be taken to a room without cameras and be given a good going over. I have no time for people who are there simply trying to help someone out being a victim.

[minux]

Is death still meaningless if it is your family/friends? Just for an example, what would you do if you found out the ambos kept eating their sandwich or drinking their milk if your best mate was in a car wreck coz he was street dragging and they said 'ah well, he was being stupid, he deserves it'. Just out of interest what have you seen and where have you been? I'm not having a go, I just want to know what gives you that way of thinking?

When family/friends die, sure, I am sad, but I get over it rather quick, their time was up, no point dwelling on it. I have lost many close friends to suicide and stupid accidents(6 in total now), I have the same belief each and every time. What need is there to seriously mourn for so long? generally they had a good life before they went, no point remembering the death.

As for ambo's continuing to eat their sandwich, good on them, if some idiot friend of mine was stupid enough to be doing drag racing on a public road, they deserve to die and do not deserve the help of paramedics. Somebody said I am not compassionate, what a load of shit, I simply do not have time for those who break laws only to expect help later on, its a ****ing joke.

Where I've been? Search through some posts, it will make a clear story. I do not need to keep bringing it up. Sorry.

[danja]

If it is an OD i'd keep eating my salad and not even bother going out. Fight due to being drunk? keep drinking my milk. Paramedics are generally made aware of a situation before they get there. What happens if someone died and it wasnt from an OD? Meh, i'd go back to work the next day like nothing happened, shit happens.

If the decision were up to me, I'd help everyone, but the self-inflicted stupidity cases pay the full cost of the care they recieve - Medicare does not.

Then run it like a demerit point system, you clock up more than 3 [stupid] incidents in a 5 year period (or something like that), you get nothing.

the psych patient who was earlier threatening to shoot me, grabbed the officers gun & tried to pull it out of her holster at the same time screaming in my face that hers going to ****ing blow my brains out... as soon as i saw his hand touch the officers gun, i drooped what ever was in my hands & punched him in the jaw breaking it in several places. once he fell to the ground almost all of the emergence staff at the hospital jumped on him & eventually he was subdued.

That punch was in pure self defence & funilly enough, the ambulance service backed me up & dismissed the case as 'an act of self defence'.

Good on ya. Seriously!

[shiftySLE]

As for ambo's continuing to eat their sandwich, good on them, if some idiot friend of mine was stupid enough to be doing drag racing on a public road, they deserve to die and do not deserve the help of paramedics. Somebody said I am not compassionate, what a load of shit, I simply do not have time for those who break laws only to expect help later on, its a ****ing joke.

Where I've been? Search through some posts, it will make a clear story. I do not need to keep bringing it up. Sorry.

I don't want you life story, I'm only after an example or two of what makes you think you have seen so much more than everyone else, I don't really want to read 6000 posts looking for it.

[Philthy]

I don't want you life story, I'm only after an example or two of what makes you think you have seen so much more than everyone else, I don't really want to read 6000 posts looking for it.

He's seen some shit man, some shit and some stuff.



....Doesn't recommend it!!

[shiftySLE]

He's seen some shit man, some shit and some stuff.



....Doesn't recommend it!!

Mate I'm trying to work out what some shit and some stuff is, I'm not saying he hasnt, but its just a conversation we're having, the way people do, if anyone doesn't want to say something, then dont come onto a forum and make comments like that

[TVR-190]

i have a good idea what hes seen, and hes mentioned it a few times. if you really care you will find it.

OT

i agree people totally pissed, off their face on drugs, self harmers etc shouldnt have time wasted on them

[shiftySLE]

i have a good idea what hes seen, and hes mentioned it a few times. if you really care you will find it.

So tell me, I'm sure as hell not to going to sit at a computer and read 6000 posts, what is your good idea of what he has seen?

[TVR-190]

So tell me, I'm sure as hell not to going to sit at a computer and read 6000 posts, what is your good idea of what he has seen?

fine, Minux used to be a postal worker, 1 day he just snapped and murdered 25 people. thats what he has seen

[shiftySLE]

fine, Minux used to be a postal worker, 1 day he just snapped and murdered 25 people. thats what he has seen

I don't right anything off until its proven wrong but if he did do 25 people over, I don't think he would be free and talking on forums freely so try again, he'd be in the joint for the next 400 years. Anyone care to tell me what everyone seems to know, well 2 people anyway.

[ClairBear]

So tell me, I'm sure as hell not to going to sit at a computer and read 6000 posts, what is your good idea of what he has seen?

What Minux has experienced is OT for this thread. It is not a place for a discussion on our various life experiences.

As you have been told a few times now, if you really want to know read the forum for further information or accept some here have dealt with and seen some pretty mind blowing events.

[ClairBear]

Back OT.

I am with Minux to a degree. If someone has an od on an illegal substance and this information is relayed to the ambulance service why should they attend? What a waste of resources in my opinion.

But then I can see the other side of the coin, sometimes these people do kick the habit, sometimes following an od.

On the subject of fat people, as someone's sig here reads 'why is it I can't get served at the pub when I am drunk, but McDonalds serve fat people.'

Hard call.

[shiftySLE]

fine, Minux used to be a postal worker, 1 day he just snapped and murdered 25 people. thats what he has seen

OK thanks, well for future reference I invented the question mark?? I have no problem with MINUX, it was a simple question and I received stuff all answers from everyone else but! I'm here to talk cars and stuff, not to listen to lies like this.

Back to the thread topic
Doctors cant choose not to work on a fat person with a heart attack because he shouldn't have eaten that much for so long and meds cant refuse attention to anyone regardless of reason, drugs alcohol or fighting, there would be no way of telling where to draw the line.