cars with roll cages

[jules]

If you think adding roll cage to road car is adding safety you're wrong. Roll cages are only safer when you've got harnesses to restraint you in a crush cell which no longer crushes, and a helmets to stop your heading being split open on it*. Roll cages also take away deformation so if you hit another car, the impact to their vehicle is far substantial compared to what it would be.

i'm not sure i would entirely agree with that.

the idea behind crumple zones is that the bonnet section crumples, not the passenger area (what vehicle engineers call the survival cell). intrusion into the passenger cabin is the biggest cause of occupant fatalities, now that restraints have improved. a properly designed roll bar should reduce intrusion.

you may be right about the harness and helmet though - hitting a roll bar with your head is likely to negate any benefit gained from structural integrity. i think that's one reason they're restricted on road cars.

[STEALTHY™]

you may be right about the harness and helmet though - hitting a roll bar with your head is likely to negate any benefit gained from structural integrity. i think that's one reason they're restricted on road cars.

But is there any difference to hitting(at speed) a plastic dashboard, or steering wheel (not getting into the idiots who put a woodgrain wheel on their car lol)

[jules]

absolutely. ADR 21 (i think) requires head impact zone to provide minimum protection - that's why they've got padding. you can put padding on an roll bar i suppose, but it won't have been tested, so it's uncertain whether it's as good. (you can do the testing, but it's not worth the money of course)

for newer cars that ADR 21 applies, technically you're not allowed to put wood grain steering wheels in, but the guy at autobarn won't tell you that.

[STEALTHY™]

I know there illegal. i hate them as much as i have chev badges.

[holdenhero]

I want to get a roll cage, my car is fast enough I guess for you blokes to say it qualifies and I'm sure as hell no Peter Brock however I am a firm believer of the fact that you can't put a price on saftey. The $2500 I was quoted for a full custom cage I'm happy to pay compared to the value I put on saftey. However one thing that gives me the absolute S*!&S is that I have seen the police target cars with roll cages, probably on the idea that they have a reason to have them meaning that they are fast, but shouldn't the people with roll cages be seen as being good sameritans and be given credit for adding saftey to their cars not frowned upon?

[Low_VX_Taxi]

absolutely. ADR 21 (i think) requires head impact zone to provide minimum protection - that's why they've got padding. you can put padding on an roll bar i suppose, but it won't have been tested, so it's uncertain whether it's as good. (you can do the testing, but it's not worth the money of course)

for newer cars that ADR 21 applies, technically you're not allowed to put wood grain steering wheels in, but the guy at autobarn won't tell you that.

I would never put one in after a friend had his nose literally ripped off his face after having an accident, (no an exaggeration) all that was left (on his face) was the cartilage, still has a nasty scare to prove it. His wheel was full metal no wood grain.

As for roll cages in cars I suppose if you are doing a lot of track work and want to stiffen the chassis it may be worth while but as previously mentioned removable cages are pretty good these days and quick to remove so why bother having a permanent cage in anything but a dedicated track car.

[shiftySLE]

As for roll cages in cars I suppose if you are doing a lot of track work and want to stiffen the chassis it may be worth while but as previously mentioned removable cages are pretty good these days and quick to remove so why bother having a permanent cage in anything but a dedicated track car.

I agree with you on the steering wheels, but roll cages are not to stiffen chassis, they do have that bonus affect, they are there in case the car rolls over, otherwise known as ROPS, Roll Over Protection Structure. Thats why they are required in scrutineers, the scrutineers couldn't car less how your suspension is, only if they can get sued for something. They are also illegal on the street which is the idea of the bolt in. I do agree that if the car is fast enough to require a cage, its not a street car but the laws have chaged and now any car which achieves a certain time, I think its 11 secs requires it which is bringing the gap closer between peoples street cars and street/strip cars.

[gslrallysport]

intrusion into the passenger cabin is the biggest cause of occupant fatalities

Actually, no neck injuries resulting in death are the biggest cause of occupant fatalities, putting a roll cage in a car just make any head on impact more severe, and thus why they invented things like the HANS device. As I said, and still stand by, if you think putting a roll cage in a road car makes you safer then you're delusional.

There's no accident in history, that where a driver has been killed from intrusion into the cabin, where he would've been saved by instead having his head impact the roll cage at the same velocity. I'm sorry, roll cages in road cars are a false security, end of story.

The ONLY benefit to having a roll cage in a road car is chassis stiffness. If you think it makes you safer you're kidding yourself. As someone who regularly throws cars between trees sideways over blind crests on dirt at 190km/hr, I'm fairly pedantic about roll cage design, but I'm in no rush to go out and put a roll cage in either of my road cars. I know of two people (one of whom was testing illegally without a helmet on) who have been killed from head injuries sustained from impact with a roll cage.

[jules]

i would pretty much agree with you about the head injury risk with roll cages. it only works in race cars due to helmet wearing.

but aside from the small matter that you may die from headbutting the cage, they do have the potential to add to structural integrity of the passenger cabin. it's more a piece of trivia than advice to go and fit one

[padrickz88]

lmao

[coolngroovy]

I put a half cage in one of our 'toys', because some cretin had fitted a dodgey pop-up sunroof.
I figure it's cheap insurance in the unlikely event of an accident. Like a fire extinguisher. [perhaps i shouldn't have one of those too?]
Soon after, the car was severly rear-ended.
I swear the cage was all that saved the car from being worse off. And if the car is better off, then the driver/passenger must be too!
Even though it's just a 1/2 cage, the tortional rigidity increase was noticable. Particularly under hard cornering.
I have now put the same cage into our next 'toy'.

So if you are driving past a car which has a cage fitted, don't automatically assume the driver is a wanker. Sometimes there are actual reasons behind it.
Yes! They are safer!

[VT-565]

Safer when fitted correctly, much more dangerous if fitted haphazardly.

I do not like 'bolt in' cages. The only 'bolt in' item that I agree with are door cross bars, done correctly.

If you have a car that according to ANDRA, needs a roll bar (there is a difference between bar and cage) that is 10.99 et or quicker, then you really need to be deciding on how much you need this car on the road and legal.
A flat 11 second road car would be more than enough in todays age of 40km/h speedlimits and speedhumps.

[coolngroovy]

One of the conditions in fitting a cage in QLD is....all areas of the cage which may contact a passengers head in a collision, MUST be padded. Bacically everything from the forearms up.
There are a few suppliers around which make an approved rollbar padding.
They have already done the testing!
As VT565 has stated, they are only usefull if fitted correctly! That's probably why it needs to be approved/certified & a mod plate issued.