Speed Limits Hay Plains

[Holdfast]

Speed Limits

As cars get safer and more reliable are country speed limits appropriate.

We have had 110 max speed limits for years; cars have more safety features than ever; medical technology is advanced and more people survive.

What are the common factors that govern the speed limit on a road?

Why can a Morris minor from the 60's do 110km/h, why can trucks do similar speeds and a HSV is limited to the same 110km/h speed restriction?

Why are night speed limits the same as day speed limits?

Recently I drove from Sydney to Adelaide, the road from Wagga Wagga to Narrandera was mostly 100km/h, the road from Narrandera to Hay to Balranald to Mildura to Renmark are 110km/h.

Why don’t some of these roads have higher speed limits/ Surely speed limits should be commensurate with road conditions; after all, we have to do 50km/h in suburban areas so why not adjust speed limits to a more modern formula.

Images

http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/...ay-plains.html

[TVR-190]

not everyone drive these new "safe" cars

this topics been done to death also mate

[VZ06]

I live nearby to this area, 110km/h out that way is ridiculous, it should be upped to 130, those roads r ever so boring!!

[Holdfast]

not everyone drive these new "safe" cars

this topics been done to death also mate

No worries mate.

[greenacc]

i often wonder about this same question , about 20 years ago the max limit in NSW was 120.
anyway, its really about the ability of the average driver ... which is rubbish, and the mess you make of yourself when you crash. That said, I also with they would increase the limits on many roads, especially the country ones where there aint many people.

[VZ06]

Agreeed, they should up the limit, if a driver isnt comfortable doing a speed limit of say, 130km/h, they dont have to go that fast. Those roads out there are long and extremely boring.

[Torquative]

I'll leave it here coz you'll get some decent responses then if I were to move it where you'll be stoned to death, esentially it works both ways.

While I agree vehicle safety has improved, sadly not all roads have. When we do some cruises we are left wondering why anyone would do the set speed limit on some roads, as we're being bucked and thrown around sitting 10/20kays under the signposted speed due to roads in disrepair.

At the end of the day you can have the worlds safest car, but even an inexperienced driver can crash a Volvo and kill themselves

Still I ask the question about some roads, the M7 is set to a maximum speed of 100KPH when its a brand new Freeway, Sydneys newst. Why is it not 110 in most places? Its just a straight road with some sweeping corners in it.

[mischa]

Just thought Id say proberly the reason for not upping the speed limits also has to do with the gearing of all the cars on the road.

Dont want evererybody doing 3500rpm along the freeway.

Also in saying that going faster then 100km/h also means you use more fuel, and that means more green houses grasses (i spelt that wrong for a reason)

[burnz]

yes i beleive 130 from narrellan rd to the border would be good, and from the border to graigeburn.
north some section from raymond trc to kempsey, and tamworth to cunninghams gap.

[dynamytedave]

I came across the Hay Plain in a Kenworth and we hit an emu at 105km/h, destroyed the bird, feathers and dust everywhere. What do you think would've happened if we had've been in car doing 130? I reckon I would've had my eyes pecked out of my head whilst waiting at the pearly gates for St Peter to let us in.

Speed limits are set with a few factors in mind, the terrain, visibility in all conditions, road surface, more importantly in suburban areas they factor in traffic entering from side roads and volume of traffic during peak times, driveways and pedestrian activity.

I drive a semi for a crust locally and I can honestly say that if everyone slowed down 10 or 15km/h's, we'd all be better off. You might not get home in time to see the end of Antiques Roadshow, but you may just save your license, your maximum no claim bonus, or your or someone else's life.

[Holdfast]

I came across the Hay Plain in a Kenworth and we hit an emu at 105km/h, destroyed the bird, feathers and dust everywhere. What do you think would've happened if we had've been in car doing 130? I reckon I would've had my eyes pecked out of my head whilst waiting at the pearly gates for St Peter to let us in.

Speed limits are set with a few factors in mind, the terrain, visibility in all conditions, road surface, more importantly in suburban areas they factor in traffic entering from side roads and volume of traffic during peak times, driveways and pedestrian activity.

I drive a semi for a crust locally and I can honestly say that if everyone slowed down 10 or 15km/h's, we'd all be better off. You might not get home in time to see the end of Antiques Roadshow, but you may just save your license, your maximum no claim bonus, or your or someone else's life.

If you were in a car, you would slow down to avoid a collision. A Kenworth - slowing down

[MY-42-VT]

well the hay plains...even tho the limit is 110...who do u actually see doing that?

we passed utes with trailers, they where doing about 140... not mentioning how fast we where going...but its seriously should have...if anything..no limit... theres NOTHING ! its flat dirt with the occasional bush? if hit a emu... out there you shoulda been able to see the freaking thing for 10km's away...theres **** all else to be looking at...

[Jamie-b]

Ive been across the Hay planes and im on my L's, and im expected to go 80? Its ridiculous
I asked my old man if he seriously expects me to go 80 on Hay planes and he said it would be more dangerous than say 110, because if the other cars where sticking to 110 (which they dont) ide be 30Km/h slower than them.

[dynamytedave]

Mr Holdfast,

I wasn't actually at the helm at the time of the collision, the other driver I was two-up with was captain at the time. I was in the bunk, getting thrown around by the bumps, which makes me wonder, why would you WANT to do anymore than the speed limit on a road that is not silky smooth?

Another point of contention is that the bush chook heard us coming and couldn't decide on which way to turn, effectively ripping Emu burnouts in the middle of our lane. At this point I'll inform you that to take evasive action in a semi weighing upwards of 35tonne, would more than likely have had more of a detrimental effect on the balance of the vehicle, with an exceptionally high chance of a roll over. To hit it square on and risk the possibility of having fuel crossover lines ripped out, among other things, was the only viable option.

What I'm was attempting to convey there, is that wildlife are unpredictable, if it were in a car and you swerved to miss it and were still barreling along at your 130km/h, and the bird took the same direction as you did, it's over before you know it. Man, honestly 130km/h is about 36 metres per second, lets say you notice it 100 metres away, you've got about 2.5 seconds to react and decide what you're gunna do, and at that speed, a hard jab on the brakes might see you drop your speed down to 80 or 90, it's still gunna make a mess.

If you want to drive as fast as possible on open public roads, the Autobahn is your only option. Our training levels are pathetic, I don't think there would be a single driver to have a license issued by the RTA who would have enough skill to drive at that kind of speed. Plus, our roads are substandard, not just the streets in your neighbourhood, but all over the country, especially here in NSW. I've done my fair share of interstate driving and can honestly say that there aren't many roads out there where the conditions would suit high speed. The Northern Territory government abolished their open limits, because too many people were dying in high speed crashes. Do you remember the Cannonball Run they had a few years back, with the two dudes in their Ferrari?

The average age of cars on the road in Australia is around 10 years old. Last year there were about 1 Million new vehicles sold here, which means there is still a butt load of old cars out there on the roads. 130km/h in a Datsun 180B doesn't sound too appealing at the best of times.

We're here on the Just Commodores forum because we enjoy our cars, right? Which more than likely means that we take a little bit more care than the average Joe with our cars, keeping them regularly serviced and so on. What about the Joe Blow from Bendigo, who uses his car to drive to and from work everyday and to the shops on the weekends? He might get some work done on his car when the rego's up, or when the tyres have canvas and wire poking out. Do you seriously want this dude to be on the same stretch of road as you when you're travelling that fast that you can bend space and time?

There is a transport company, Simon National Carriers, whose trucks are limited to 90km/h, the reasons behind that? A10% decrease in fuel consumption and driver safety top the list.

The vast majority of drivers, and vehicles available, are not capable of handling high speed. It is now a task beyond comprehension to make sure that everyone would be able to comply to any regulations to govern a change.

I'm tempted to quote a bumper sticker I once saw, "Speed on brother, hell aint full yet", but I won't.

[Holdfast]

well the hay plains...even tho the limit is 110...who do u actually see doing that?

we passed utes with trailers, they where doing about 140... not mentioning how fast we where going...but its seriously should have...if anything..no limit... theres NOTHING ! its flat dirt with the occasional bush? if hit a emu... out there you shoulda been able to see the freaking thing for 10km's away...theres **** all else to be looking at...

To be fair, you'd think you would be able to see emus but they do blend in with the bush.
There's quite a few so I understand how a trucker could have difficulty avoiding them and they are very unpredictable.

[Holdfast]

Mr Holdfast,

I wasn't actually at the helm at the time of the collision, the other driver I was two-up with was captain at the time. I was in the bunk, getting thrown around by the bumps, which makes me wonder, why would you WANT to do anymore than the speed limit on a road that is not silky smooth?

Another point of contention is that the bush chook heard us coming and couldn't decide on which way to turn, effectively ripping Emu burnouts in the middle of our lane. At this point I'll inform you that to take evasive action in a semi weighing upwards of 35tonne, would more than likely have had more of a detrimental effect on the balance of the vehicle, with an exceptionally high chance of a roll over. To hit it square on and risk the possibility of having fuel crossover lines ripped out, among other things, was the only viable option.

What I'm was attempting to convey there, is that wildlife are unpredictable, if it were in a car and you swerved to miss it and were still barreling along at your 130km/h, and the bird took the same direction as you did, it's over before you know it. Man, honestly 130km/h is about 36 metres per second, lets say you notice it 100 metres away, you've got about 2.5 seconds to react and decide what you're gunna do, and at that speed, a hard jab on the brakes might see you drop your speed down to 80 or 90, it's still gunna make a mess.

If you want to drive as fast as possible on open public roads, the Autobahn is your only option. Our training levels are pathetic, I don't think there would be a single driver to have a license issued by the RTA who would have enough skill to drive at that kind of speed. Plus, our roads are substandard, not just the streets in your neighbourhood, but all over the country, especially here in NSW. I've done my fair share of interstate driving and can honestly say that there aren't many roads out there where the conditions would suit high speed. The Northern Territory government abolished their open limits, because too many people were dying in high speed crashes. Do you remember the Cannonball Run they had a few years back, with the two dudes in their Ferrari?

The average age of cars on the road in Australia is around 10 years old. Last year there were about 1 Million new vehicles sold here, which means there is still a butt load of old cars out there on the roads. 130km/h in a Datsun 180B doesn't sound too appealing at the best of times.

We're here on the Just Commodores forum because we enjoy our cars, right? Which more than likely means that we take a little bit more care than the average Joe with our cars, keeping them regularly serviced and so on. What about the Joe Blow from Bendigo, who uses his car to drive to and from work everyday and to the shops on the weekends? He might get some work done on his car when the rego's up, or when the tyres have canvas and wire poking out. Do you seriously want this dude to be on the same stretch of road as you when you're travelling that fast that you can bend space and time?

There is a transport company, Simon National Carriers, whose trucks are limited to 90km/h, the reasons behind that? A10% decrease in fuel consumption and driver safety top the list.

The vast majority of drivers, and vehicles available, are not capable of handling high speed. It is now a task beyond comprehension to make sure that everyone would be able to comply to any regulations to govern a change.

I'm tempted to quote a bumper sticker I once saw, "Speed on brother, hell aint full yet", but I won't.

Good points mate; hope you don't think I was having a go at truckers or their driving skills as I have no intention. Driving a rig is a tough job and the skill generally goes un-noticed by the general public.

Having said that, there's many very long stretches on the road now that is bordered on either side by rice farms or irrigation channels that don't allow wildlife onto the road. The road is flat, in good condition and quite wide.

A few images of the road.
http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/...ay-plains.html

[dynamytedave]

No worries man, no offence taken. It's all good.

Trust me, I wouldn't mind being able to sit in 6th in the Monaro, eating up the k's like they're going out of fashion, but I don't have much faith in the general public's driving ability, nor the state of our road system. Which are the main reasons I gave up Interstate. You get to see a lot of crazy stuff out there.

I have crossed the Hay Plains a few times, the majority of which didn't really strike me as being of a quality that would suit high speeds, nor the fact that is a two lane road. I remember stopping for a nature call, and the flies near carried me away.

If a proper high speed corridor were introduced, it'd have to be a dual carriageway with multiple lanes. You could have a lane, for learners like Jamie-b and articulated tourists (oldies in caravans), for vehicles travelling at less than 100. A lane for 100 to 120, a lane for 120 to 140 and then an ultra high speed lane, the last two lanes should have a MINIMUM speed set, if you're not doing your 120 or 140, you're gunna get done.

[MY-42-VT]

the diffrence is but, between a car and a truck...a car isn't 35ton. when the brakes are slammed on the only real risk is if some one is on ya ass ( which i doubt out there ) and yeah dave you are putting in a good arguement...for a truck driver... but the main idea was cars to have the limit changed. Im a apprentice mechanic, and that speed limiter is easily by-passed as i've seen in alot of trucks.

yes animals are unprdiatable, where i live kangeroo's are magnets to the frount of commodores ( but not mine thankgod ) but the reason why we can't see them is cause the currupt lazy as local council hasn't come out and slashed the sides of the roads yet !

so yeah over all, lift the speed limit on roads like hay plains... you don't have to go as fast as you can...but as fast as you are comfortable to go

[Holdfast]

No worries man, no offence taken. It's all good.

Trust me, I wouldn't mind being able to sit in 6th in the Monaro, eating up the k's like they're going out of fashion, but I don't have much faith in the general public's driving ability, nor the state of our road system. Which are the main reasons I gave up Interstate. You get to see a lot of crazy stuff out there.

I have crossed the Hay Plains a few times, the majority of which didn't really strike me as being of a quality that would suit high speeds, nor the fact that is a two lane road. I remember stopping for a nature call, and the flies near carried me away.

If a proper high speed corridor were introduced, it'd have to be a dual carriageway with multiple lanes. You could have a lane, for learners like Jamie-b and articulated tourists (oldies in caravans), for vehicles travelling at less than 100. A lane for 100 to 120, a lane for 120 to 140 and then an ultra high speed lane, the last two lanes should have a MINIMUM speed set, if you're not doing your 120 or 140, you're gunna get done.

Ahh cool mate, glad things are ok, good ideas there, I'd go with that.

Here's a question (unrelated to the Hay Plains) for you since you are a professional driver.

We all know that learners must get experience in all road conditions and at times they don't get to practice lengthy driving periods except when they go on long trips, like a holiday long weekend.

If they are on motorways that are sign posted 110k do you think they cause a danger to other motorists not because they can't drive but because they are forced to do 80k?


Images Hay Plains http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/...ay-plains.html

[dynamytedave]

yeah dave you are putting in a good arguement...for a truck driver...

For a truck driver, hey? Well I gotta say you're putting in as good an argument as any apprentice mechanic I know. For an apprentice mechanic, you should know that slamming the brakes on in a car that has shoddy tyres or suspension isn't always a good thing. And that's one of my main points, which you seem to be disregarding, that no matter how much legislation gets put forward to ensure the safety of other road users, there are always variables that can make the most stringent regulations pertaining to safety and training useless, theres always gunna be something, somewhere, that will inevitably go wrong, it's Murphy's Law mate. And when it happens at high speed, the margin for error is greatly reduced.

Dude, I've driven some trucks, late model Merc's and Iveco's, with disc brakes that would outstop a lot of older cars. And yeah, having been in the industry long enough, you get to learn certain tricks to bypass limiters. If you have a laptop and the proper connection, you can do a lot of things to the ECU. But it's pointless exercise tampering with limiters in NSW and SA, with the Safety Cams.

There's a stretch of road in Western Australia on the Eyre Highway between Balladonia and Caiguna. It's known as 90 Mile, it's the world's longest stretch of straight road and I can tell you that 146.6km's of straight road is the most boring drive I've ever done. It is dense with scrub on either side of the road and there is a lot of wildlife out there. An old truckie warned me on my first trip across to Perth, to avoid driving at dawn and dusk, as thats when the Roo's are most active. I've seen them drinking puddles of condensation on the side of the road early in the morning, they blend in to the background and you're on top of them before you know it, even at 100km/h. And you just can't pass laws that can take into account conditions like that.

[dynamytedave]

Ahh cool mate, glad things are ok, good ideas there, I'd go with that.

Here's a question (unrelated to the Hay Plains) for you since you are a professional driver.

We all know that learners must get experience in all road conditions and at times they don't get to practice lengthy driving periods except when they go on long trips, like a holiday long weekend.

If they are on motorways that are sign posted 110k do you think they cause a danger to other motorists not because they can't drive but because they are forced to do 80k?


Images Hay Plains http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/...ay-plains.html

Learners, or any slow movers on freeways are a major hinderance and can be quite dangerous. But having an elevated position above the line of traffic, we have more of an advantage than car drivers because we can see whats going on further away. A lot of the time we can anticipate the actions of car drivers, and know what they're gunna do before they even know what's going on.

Learners have just as much right to be on the road as anyone else. P-Platers on the other hand... Nah, seriously though, we all started out as learners, and it'd be a safe bet that we've all held up other road users when we were learners. I reckon that learners should spend a day in a truck around town, just to see what it's like, to see what we have to put up with. It'd make a huge difference to people's perception of trucks and drivers in general.

People just have to learn to be patient, it only takes one little error or a minor indiscretion to ruin your day. Courtesy goes a long way as well.

[Holdfast]

dynamytedave, you've put a lot of effort into your posts and provided very good perspective from a truckers point of view (and general driving). Thanks for giving us your thoughts mate.

[rch-13z]

Dave reminds me of when you hit that dog in the VN doing 110...... man your radiator was rooted...

[Torquative]

I have to say

.... guys, good to see your able to have a civil debate about this without flamming each other. Keep it up, it really does make for a good read and Im sure everyone is able to see it from the other persons perspective. We're here to share ideas and views, not flame the other bloke for presenting his.


Now Im not going to have a stab but

when the brakes are slammed on the only real risk is if some one is on ya ass ( which i doubt out there )

true, but not always. On a non ABS car your going to jam them on so damn hard, and slide that hard it wont be funny. Throw into that equasion someone who jerks the steering wheel to avoid it when their brain calculates their gonna impact, you find yourselves in the scrub ... or wrong side of the road, while Mr Dave is hurling towards you at 100 kph

Perhaps better driver training is needed yes, but you also need the road setup properly for it. dont forget, you can also have someone whose never left Sydneys peak hour CBD travelling north to visit the rellies and getting upto whatever speed on the weekend, their going to be a danger. Heck I'd be a danger to you guys that drive rural roads, if I got into strife I dont know that I'd be able to get out of it.

[Tsunamix]

I got booked for speeding through a roadworks once. the copper explained to me that the speed limits were reduced because there was no run off areas, and greater damage likely if they hit construction barriers.

He didn't like me when I pointed out that he was parked in a nice little run off area when he lasered me, and that the impact barriers of plastic and water were a damn sight softer than the trees and concrete barriers on the higher speed limited non construction area.

He also said that you have to take care of the workers. I asked him to point out 1 single person working without 1000m of where we were standing. He got shitty, and I got booked.

Theoretically though, speed limits have more to do with the risks the area represents to others. High volume of wildlife, big spoondrains besdie the road, trees close to the egde, things like that theoretically lower speed limits.

But for certain - they are not consistent because the road margins change AFTER the speed limits are posted anyway.

I think the best example is the fact that NT speed limits have been capped - and since the cap was applied, fatalaities INCREASED.

By the way - for all you budding politicians, think about this - If speed kills, why aren't the pilots of planes and trains the first to die ? Planes cruise at 550kmh, trains in qld up to 160kmh between regional centres.

The answer is speed doesnt kill. It's the unexpected, the stupid and the ignorant that kill.