2009 NSW Road Safety Roundtable - Prepare to get boned!!

[deathsgt60]

Ahhh the NSW Government, always after a quick buck, or a way to shaft NSW drivers every way possible.

So I bring you all 7 pages of the finest BS you have ever read.

Introducing the NSW Governments 2009 Road Safety Roundtable.. rather than spoil it all I'll just drop the intro part:

Uh OH .. that's the warning right there. We've blown excess amounts of money and STILL we have more lives lose than the last 6 years.

NEWSFLASH - It's because what you have in place is NOT the way to tackle road fatalities.

If anything lower speed limits = higher frustration from drivers = drivers taking more chances = more accidents.

Link to PDF here: http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety...e_response.pdf

Notable points:
• 48 more Highway Patrol vehicles for NSW roads, with higher visibility.

• Review the use of speed cameras with a view to investigating the use of mobile cameras.

• Ensure fixed speed camera locations are at black spots and publicise them as such.

• Investigate ways to issue fines more quickly. This will ensure the infringement notice is connected to behaviour.

• Consider use of advancing technologies in vehicles like GPS systems for enforcement, electronic stability control and Automatic Number Plate Recognition.

• RTA to complete their trial of Intelligent Speed Adaptation technology and assess the benefits of this new technology for NSW motorists.

• NSW Police Force and RTA to explore a trial of Mobile Automatic Number Plate Recognition technology.

..............

Thoughts ?!?

[Grennan]

Well Ill be honest, I quite like:

- 48 more Highway Patrol vehicles for NSW roads, with higher visibility.
- Ensure fixed speed camera locations are at black spots and publicise them as such.
- Investigate ways to issue fines more quickly. This will ensure the infringement notice is connected to behaviour.

The extra cop cars are a given, but the speed camera ones are decent. The biggest issue I have with speed cameras in Victoria are they are put in places where they are getting money, not where accidents happen and more often than not they are publicized. Theres no signs, theres no warnings. Which brings me to the third point I like. My other beef with speed cameras is it takes almost a month, sometimes more, for the fine to arrive. In that month theyve probably sped another 100 times, the fine has no impact on them whatsoever because they dont remember the incident and in that month they were still speeding around and they couldve killed someone.

Punishing motorists is like training dogs. You dont smack your dog 4 hours after he does something wrong because he doesnt remember it. He doesnt connect punishment with the action. Same with the average motorist. They don't care for an entire month, fine comes all of a sudden they get a fine they get angry for 15 minutes and they don't care again.

The rest of the points are a bit "Meh"

[danja]

Ahhh the NSW Government, always after a quick buck, or a way to shaft NSW drivers every way possible.

So I bring you all 7 pages of the finest BS you have ever read.

Introducing the NSW Governments 2009 Road Safety Roundtable.. rather than spoil it all I'll just drop the intro part:

Uh OH .. that's the warning right there. We've blown excess amounts of money and STILL we have more lives lose than the last 6 years.

NEWSFLASH - It's because what you have in place is NOT the way to tackle road fatalities.

If anything lower speed limits = higher frustration from drivers = drivers taking more chances = more accidents.

Link to PDF here: http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety...e_response.pdf

Notable points:
• 48 more Highway Patrol vehicles for NSW roads, with higher visibility.

• Review the use of speed cameras with a view to investigating the use of mobile cameras.

• Ensure fixed speed camera locations are at black spots and publicise them as such.

• Investigate ways to issue fines more quickly. This will ensure the infringement notice is connected to behaviour.

• Consider use of advancing technologies in vehicles like GPS systems for enforcement, electronic stability control and Automatic Number Plate Recognition.

• RTA to complete their trial of Intelligent Speed Adaptation technology and assess the benefits of this new technology for NSW motorists.

• NSW Police Force and RTA to explore a trial of Mobile Automatic Number Plate Recognition technology.

..............

Thoughts ?!?

What are you on about? The road toll has been steadily decreasing for years, in spite of there being more and more people driving every day. Generated from the Department of Infrastructure Australian Road Fatality Database:


This trend doesn't happen by accident, it a direct result of these sorts of initiatives. We all know how the road toll dived after seat belts became compulsory, now they're looking at newer technologies like stability control, often referred to by safety experts as "the best thing since seat belts".

Auto number plate recognition is used to catch people driving unregistered or disqualified, something I wholeheartedly approve of, same with quicker issuing of fines, which as Grennan points out is a completely valid thing to do, basic psychology really.

Speed adaptation has been used in Australia and overseas, and I believe is generally regarded as successful. In heavy traffic, traffic actually moves slower if the speed limit is too high, largely due to the "concertina effect". If the speed limits are set right they can have a very positive effect, even though the limit is lower.

As for cameras and more police cars, well now there is more chance you'll get caught if you speed - I can see how some people get upset about that sure, but my answer is simply: "tough shit". You know you shouldn't be speeding in the first place, if you choose to do it anyway you ought to have enough guts to accept that you may well get caught, and if you do, that's your fault - not the polices'.

Speeding tickets are a voluntary donation to the state - if you don't want to donate, just don't speed, but don't begrudge the state for accepting your donation when you offer it.

[minux]

I dont think the road toll directly corresponds to rule changes, i think the biggest factor in reducing the road toll is thanks to car manufactuers and tthe likes of airbags, ABS, ESC etc.

You know you shouldn't be speeding in the first place, if you choose to do it anyway you ought to have enough guts to accept that you may well get caught, and if you do, that's your fault - not the polices'.

This always has me baffled. I know I have two speeding fines. Without under estimating, I have probably sped 6000 times(when i say speed exceeded the legal limit by more than 3 km/h). Now 1 speeding fine wasn't me and I successfully challenged this. The other was a few k over, now in 14 years of driving to only receive 1 real fine, for 6000 wrong doings, i think I am doing pretty well. I think it is safe to say at some point EVERYONE speeds, it is just some of us do it more discreetly than others and when conditions generally allow.

[danja]

I dont think the road toll directly corresponds to rule changes, i think the biggest factor in reducing the road toll is thanks to car manufactuers and tthe likes of airbags, ABS, ESC etc.

I would argue its a combination of the above, but definitely technology advances are one of the key drivers. The thing is, technology is useless if it's not in the car, what they are talking about now with ESC is making it mandatory (like seat belts in the past) to force it into vehicles. Car makers care most about making a buck, so typically features are intentionally left out of entry level models to add points of difference, and make the pricing more competitive, this extends to safety features too, you can still buy cars with no airbags or ABS etc.

This always has me baffled. I know I have two speeding fines. Without under estimating, I have probably sped 6000 times(when i say speed exceeded the legal limit by more than 3 km/h). Now 1 speeding fine wasn't me and I successfully challenged this. The other was a few k over, now in 14 years of driving to only receive 1 real fine, for 6000 wrong doings, i think I am doing pretty well. I think it is safe to say at some point EVERYONE speeds, it is just some of us do it more discreetly than others and when conditions generally allow.

I'm not saying people don't speed, I'm sure everyone has done it at least a few times, I have myself. Some do it habitually, some do it excessively, others do it grossly inappropriately (like in a school zone), and some all of the above.

My point is simply that if you speed, you are aware you may get caught, and don't have a sook if you do because you've only yourself to blame. The rules are perfectly clear and simple - the limit is the limit, don't go over it. Nobody gets forced to speed, certainly not by the police, so raging at them for catching you, or increasing their odds of catching you - it's just pathetic in my eyes.

[Tsunamix]

It's interesting to note that fatalaties per fatal crash is INCREASING.

[Veriton]

I agree with more highway patrol vehicle issued, however I doubt the use of the vehicle as we've seen in the past, it's all well and good to have em, just use them.
The issuing of fines faster is fine with me too.
The speed camera has always been a good/not good idea. Some are in positive positions to prevent accidents, others are just profit making waste of tax payers money, however I do also agree and realise that if you get caught by a speed camera, it's your own fault.

Then there's places like the blue mountains where they have so much stupid limit changes it's absolutly ridiculous and sends any driver into a rage and fit. Some limit changes are made within 50m of each other...

[deathsgt60]

i have read studies before about the placement of speed cameras and how they actually cause more crashes than they prevent.

the reason for this is people are so paranoid about getting a ticket they keep there eye on the speedo and not the road.

[jules]

Speed adaptation has been used in Australia and overseas, and I believe is generally regarded as successful. In heavy traffic, traffic actually moves slower if the speed limit is too high, largely due to the "concertina effect". If the speed limits are set right they can have a very positive effect, even though the limit is lower.

that's not the type of speed adaptation they're thinking of. they're thinking of the system that stops you from accelerating past the speed limit, not adaptive cruise control which keeps you a set distance from the car in front.

[danja]

i have read studies before about the placement of speed cameras and how they actually cause more crashes than they prevent.

the reason for this is people are so paranoid about getting a ticket they keep there eye on the speedo and not the road.

I've heard something like that for red light cameras, but not for speed cameras. Any chance you could dig it up? I'd quite like to read it.

that's not the type of speed adaptation they're thinking of. they're thinking of the system that stops you from accelerating past the speed limit, not adaptive cruise control which keeps you a set distance from the car in front.

Actually I thought they were talking about variable speed limits (ie 70km/h normally, 40km/h during peak - bit like a school zone, but not related to schools), though by the sounds of it they didn't mean that either

The "stop you going over the limit" thing seems to come up every so often, either as an intervention (like the pedal pushing up), or just setting the car's speed limiter lower. Always seems to get shot down though.

[Jesterarts]

I have to agree with minux, the road death toll would be decreasing primarily due to increased safety features rather than new road laws, etc.

You will note that the major decrease 1996 - 1997 coincides with the start of NCAP rating, people backe aware of which cars are safer and more people bought safer cars.

In regards to speed cameras causing accidents and distracting drivers, I have to say yes they do, they distract retarded drivers who thing that when they see a speed camera it means slam your brakes and go 15kmph under the limit.

Beyond that, I'm all for speed cameras because I don't speed and therefore they don't effect me.

My opinion anyway.

[minux]

In regards to speed cameras causing accidents and distracting drivers, I have to say yes they do, they distract retarded drivers who thing that when they see a speed camera it means slam your brakes and go 15kmph under the limit.

I guess I am a retarded driver. I always tap the brakes and drop a solid 5k under if i know a camera is around. Sure, I Know my speedo is accurate, but why hand over cash for something that you cannot prove you were right? So, until I know speed camera technology is accurate 110%, I will keep doing this.

[Grennan]

Yeah I do the same minux. I know of 1 speed camera that is very sensitive so I would rather just avoid the whole "Oh I got flashed...was I under...I was on the line...Oh crap will I get fined" worry for a month and drop 5 K's going through the intersection.

[Jesterarts]

Minux, you're retarded even without the added evidence of braking for speed cameras. lol

Tapping the brakes to go 5km under, sure that's fine, people around you barely notice it and if give you peace of mind. As I said, the retarder drivers I'm talking about are the ones who literally slam the brakes and drop a good 15kmph. There's a difference, the later is dangerous.

It's also usually these same retarded people that for some reason panic and then go 10kmph under the limit if they see a police car on the road.

I know my speedo is spot on too, always sit on the speed limit and haven't gotten a speeding fine in about 3 years now so I'm fairly confident in speed camera accuracy.

[minux]

How is wiping 15k off your speed dangerous? It is only dangerous to those who are not concentrating or sitting too close behind another car, in which case, it makes the following driver retarded.

[Jesterarts]

How is wiping 15k off your speed dangerous? It is only dangerous to those who are not concentrating or sitting too close behind another car, in which case, it makes the following driver retarded.

Yeah true, may aswell just slam the brakes and come to a complete stop, then crawl past at 5kmph... can't see that causing any issues.

Really, reducing your speed by that much suddenly will cause the drivers behind to take some sort of action, also slow down, change lanes, etc. All of a sudden you have a less predictable situation and drivers performing moves they wouldn't need to under normal circumstances, the chances of someone making a mistake increase and therefore the situation becomes more dangerous than it was before the first driver hit the brakes.

It only takes one driver to not be completely concentrating on the road and someone is going to end up in some elses boot, and unless you can guarantee me that every driver on the road is 100% focused on driving, then I say a dangerous situation is caused.

All this for absolutely no reason. Don't something for no reason is retarded in my eyes.

[minux]

So what your saying is, the speed cameras cause peopel to do this. So wouldnt it be safer to remove speed cameras just like studies say?

You dont need to answer this question as you already have

Less cameras, more visible police, only way forward.

[Jesterarts]

So what your saying is, the speed cameras cause peopel to do this. So wouldnt it be safer to remove speed cameras just like studies say?

You dont need to answer this question as you already have

Less cameras, more visible police, only way forward.

Oh... but I want to...

Yes.

Mmmm... I needed that.

[deathsgt60]

ill try to find the study.

but what you guys are saying above is what you have witnessed yourself, so you know it is a lot more dangerous around speed cameras. i agree with speed cameras. but i think they should only be mobile, so it doesn't cause a disturbance to drivers, and catches all the chick p-platers that are always speeding through town 10-15k over.

[Jezza]

well with a increase in the death toll is caused with a increasing population that are driving cars, its a no brainer

[danja]

Less cameras, more visible police, only way forward.

I think less visible cameras, and more visible police. I know where all the speed cameras are on roads I drive on, you're not likely to see me on film. Thing is, you really have to be a retard to get snapped in NSW - they have so many signs before the camera you just can't miss them unless you're asleep. If they were hidden everywhere though, well you'd be so paranoid about where they were you'd be mad to speed. Charlies in the trees! Reds under the beds! Play the psychology card I say.

[Grennan]

Just do what Queensland Police does. Chuck Plywood cutouts of cop cars in the bushes alongside the Freeways. Police Presence + Early Lunch = Win.

[danja]

Just do what Queensland Police does. Chuck Plywood cutouts of cop cars in the bushes alongside the Freeways. Police Presence + Early Lunch = Win.

I'm getting a SuperTrooper's vibe here