World Record Speeding Fine

[Demonica]

In Switzerland a speeding fine is based on what your income is so even for the rich they will feel it when they get one. The bloke was caught doing 137km in an 80km zone and fined 299 000 swiss francs ($298 991.51) He is reportedly worth $15 000 000 which includes the value of all assets.

[MasterOfReality]

Well the Swedish are hard core socialists so its not surprising.

Personally I think its a bullshit concept.

[kane88]

It's a great idea. Means testing for everything is the way to go. Might stamp out some of the attitude we see towards authority.

[MasterOfReality]

It's a great idea. Means testing for everything is the way to go. Might stamp out some of the attitude we see towards authority.

I usually find people who think means testing is a great usually drop that idea like a hot potato once they earn above a certain amount

[shifty6]

sounds like a good idea to me. penalties for breaking the law should effect all people in a comparable way.

[gopher]

It's a great idea. Means testing for everything is the way to go. Might stamp out some of the attitude we see towards authority.

i think it's a crap idea

all the welfare bludgers would end up paying **** all and then would probably get a subsidy as well

[MasterOfReality]

sounds like a good idea to me. penalties for breaking the law should effect all people in a comparable way.

Exactly, comparable would mean the same fine for everyone, since they were doing the same crime!

[kane88]

And those who earn a shitload have a shitty attitude because the fine isn't enough to phase them. I earn enough to keep me happy and let me do what I want to do, but that's a bit off topic. However I'm for means testing across the board, not just for fines, but also for a blood alcohol limit for driving (as opposed to 0.05 for everyone - we all know people that are well and truly impaired at 0.05) and so forth.

Unfortunately I can't support one without supporting the other.

[minux]

And those who earn a shitload have a shitty attitude because the fine isn't enough to phase them. I earn enough to keep me happy and let me do what I want to do, but that's a bit off topic. However I'm for means testing across the board, not just for fines, but also for a blood alcohol limit for driving (as opposed to 0.05 for everyone - we all know people that are well and truly impaired at 0.05) and so forth.

Unfortunately I can't support one without supporting the other.

Erm, why should one pay more for committing the same offence as another? Are you saying if you murder someone you should get less time for having less income?

Your logic is stupid.

[sleepa]

I personally think it is a great idea. Not just coz I haven't been able to find work for a while, and got a nasty fine last month. But it might actually make some of the rich guys respond more to the laws (despite how crap most of them are), you know, the guys in expensive euro cars speeding massively in the inner city. Obviously they don't care about the fine.

But that fine is awesome, Yes you were caught speeding, that will be a fine for $299 000 and 4 demerit points

[minux]

I personally think it is a great idea. Not just coz I haven't been able to find work for a while, and got a nasty fine last month. But it might actually make some of the rich guys respond more to the laws (despite how crap most of them are), you know, the guys in expensive euro cars speeding massively in the inner city. Obviously they don't care about the fine.

But that fine is awesome, Yes you were caught speeding, that will be a fine for $299 000 and 4 demerit points

Yes, because I see so many euro's speeding around in comparison to commodores, fords, hyundais etc. Clearly you do not care about the fine, as evidence in your post by getting one...

[Anwyll]

Whether to means test speeding fines is an interesting argument.

Basically, it depends on whether you consider the necessary role of the fine to produce a degree of punishment and 'sting' regardless of what you earn, obviously set amount fines graduated along a basis of how far over the limit you were caught won't achieve this. If the financial repercussions of being caught speeding are to be consistent across the wealth range then a fine proportional to your total wealth is exactly what is required (or other indirect means tests could be used like car seizure laws but they're not without issues, like the Perth GP who had his Ferrari confiscated even though his mechanic was the driver, not that our Liberal party saw an issue with this). However, the minimum amount must remain prohibitive to everyone, you can't just have someone who is basically worth the cash in their pocket, driving a bunky car (which in all seriousness should be defected but they never are) be given a $2 fine because that is all they're worth.

So it is a bit of a balance, however I'm not sure Australia would ever take on such a principle, even states like NSW with their immense fines (although it could be beneficial to their current financial state, kind of like California considering legalising and taxing marijuana). I'm not even sure it would be a policy worth implementing, my gut feeling is the probability someone speeds is inversely proportional to their total wealth (the less wealthy you are the less likely you will be to stick to the limit) although it wouldn't be a particularly strong relationship, even after accounting for other factors such as gender and age. I'm not sure if someone has done that research though, wouldn't be surprised if it has been done.

[kane88]

Are you saying if you murder someone you should get less time for having less income?

To be honest I think I'd get a harsher penalty for speeding than murder the way things are panning out...

My argument may have come across better if I had worded it as well as Anwyll up there. The point of the fine isn't supposed to be about the money, rather the "sting" (as he puts it) that the punishment carries. My personal opinion anyway. Don't get caught speeding excessively and you won't have to worry about it.

[sleepa]

Yes, because I see so many euro's speeding around in comparison to commodores, fords, hyundais etc. Clearly you do not care about the fine, as evidence in your post by getting one...

Well, nearly every time I go to melbourne I see one, Yes I also see normal cars speeding around, but the expensive ones seem to care less and just do what they were going to do without thinking about the potential fine (to be fair they tend to only do "bursts of speed" but still way above the limit). Could it be the fact also that euros are less common than the commodores, fords, hyundais perhaps?

And the fine I got wasn't for speeding or anything, I just got a cop who was having a really bad day and decided to put the full force of his law onto me. A graduated fine system would help in all situations where a fine is incurred. Of course there needs to be a minimum set amount no matter what.

[ClairBear]

Wouldn't work effectively here with all the dole bludgers who claim full benefits plus work full time cash in hand jobs. Some of those trippers are on $50+ a year, but never pay a cent tax or declare it. On paper they look poor but actually live a good lifestyle. What about those that have creative accounting skills so again on paper at tax time they appear to be low to middle income earners?

[kane88]

Fair call there...
Hmm

[Reaper]

It's a great idea. Means testing for everything is the way to go. Might stamp out some of the attitude we see towards authority.

Right on comrade

Reaper

[minux]

Wouldn't work effectively here with all the dole bludgers who claim full benefits plus work full time cash in hand jobs. Some of those trippers are on $50+ a year, but never pay a cent tax or declare it. On paper they look poor but actually live a good lifestyle. What about those that have creative accounting skills so again on paper at tax time they appear to be low to middle income earners?

Or creative accountants. I now no longer get paid wages. My taxable income has gone from over 100k p/a, to under 40k p/a. Fantastic setup. All legal too. Regardless of this, graduated penalties based on what you earn/own is stupid. Is the crime worse because you earn more? Hell no, it is the same crime and as such should carry the same penalty. generally those who think these systems are a good idea are those who are on the lower end of the bracket.

[Nanos]

this does not happen very often but im with minux on this one.

Just because i work hard and get paid well is no reason why i should get fined more. I am sick and tired of this whole system where the less you work and get paid means the more benifits you get.

All those in favor of it obviously dont work or dont have much in the way of responsibiltys such as kids. I work my arse off to get paid like a i do. Most days are 15hours im currently on holidays but yet find myself working from home catching up on things. Yes i get paid well but thats because i work hard not so i can afford to be fined or pay more in other things. I do this so i can try and create a good life for my family.

Instead about whinging that you got a massive fine because you did something wrong and cant afford it. How about work harder or get a second job and just suck it up.

[Cúl-Báire]

this does not happen very often but im with minux on this one.

Just because i work hard and get paid well is no reason why i should get fined more. I am sick and tired of this whole system where the less you work and get paid means the more benifits you get.

All those in favor of it obviously dont work or dont have much in the way of responsibiltys such as kids. I work my arse off to get paid like a i do. Most days are 15hours im currently on holidays but yet find myself working from home catching up on things. Yes i get paid well but thats because i work hard not so i can afford to be fined or pay more in other things. I do this so i can try and create a good life for my family.

Instead about whinging that you got a massive fine because you did something wrong and cant afford it. How about work harder or get a second job and just suck it up.

Plus One!.. Couldn't have said it any better myself to be honest.

[minux]

Instead about whinging that you got a massive fine because you did something wrong and cant afford it. How about work harder or get a second job and just suck it up.

Or even easier, don't do anything wrong!!!

[Nanos]

Or even easier, don't do anything wrong!!!

sometimes you can do your best but you still get caught out. Im sure even you minux have got a fine. But im sure like alot of people you just go shit i made a mistake and pay the fine and dont expect any special privilages.

[minux]

sometimes you can do your best but you still get caught out. Im sure even you minux have got a fine. But im sure like alot of people you just go shit i made a mistake and pay the fine and dont expect any special privilages.

Oh, I have had fines, only just got one the other day. Going to challenge it though, apparently the camera was ain a 60 zone, where it says it got me is a 70 zone, no 60 zone for 2km either side. Irrelevant I know

But your right, I paid them and moved on.

[Demonica]

I think what some people are trying to get across is if someone who earns $40 000 a year gets a $300 speeding fine it hurts the hip pocket and you don't do it again. But a person who earns $1 000 000 gets a $300 fine couldn't care less, they pay the fine and don't learn their lesson. It sounds like a good idea in theory but like it's been pointed out there are plenty of people out there who cheat the system, some in more creative ways than others. The problem with the way the Swiss do it is the amount of the fine is decided by what your income was on your last tax return was, so just because you earned a million last year you would get a massive fine even though this year you could be on the dole. Plus how many people out there are asset rich but cash poor?

Minux murder is a hell of a lot more serious than a speeding fine so not the best comparison. Anyway you've only got to look at the legal system and see how many rich pricks get away with crimes because they can afford the top lawyers while average Joe gets an over worked underpaid lawyer and goes to jail.

[minux]

I think what some people are trying to get across is if someone who earns $40 000 a year gets a $300 speeding fine it hurts the hip pocket and you don't do it again. But a person who earns $1 000 000 gets a $300 fine couldn't care less, they pay the fine and don't learn their lesson. It sounds like a good idea in theory but like it's been pointed out there are plenty of people out there who cheat the system, some in more creative ways than others. The problem with the way the Swiss do it is the amount of the fine is decided by what your income was on your last tax return was, so just because you earned a million last year you would get a massive fine even though this year you could be on the dole. Plus how many people out there are asset rich but cash poor?

What a crock. Look at impounded cars as an example, thye certainly arent driven by a myriad of rich folk who do not learn a lesson. Fact is, the lower end of the income scale are the ones who get the most fines. Hoon laws werent bought in to stop millionare euro racers, they come in to stop the problem of tossers in commodores driving like lunatics wiping themselves and other people out.

The current system is fair to everyone, everyone receives the same punishment for the same crime. What I would prefer to see is a graduated system that punishes people more harshly after a 1st, 2nd, 3rd offence etc.

Minux murder is a hell of a lot more serious than a speeding fine so not the best comparison. Anyway you've only got to look at the legal system and see how many rich pricks get away with crimes because they can afford the top lawyers while average Joe gets an over worked underpaid lawyer and goes to jail.

lol, i love how people say "get away with crimes". They did not get away with it, they put their case forward and juries and judges decide on the outcome. Sure, if you have more cash you get a better service, but that is the case with EVERYTHING.

Perhaps average joe should of made better life choices to afford to pay for his criminal activity to NOT go to jail? That would be too bloody logical though.