Shoplifting

[quick308]

I dont know about you guys but i have noticed a fare few more thiefs around lately, yesterday i was at Woolworths and there was this lady around 70 years old, she walked in with a empty bag then, when she went to the checkout it was full. The workers there see her come in everyday and steal shit, but their's nothing they can do, because they cant make her open her bag. What are you ment to do in a situation like this, you call the cops and they turn up about an hour later, and by then they have got away. I was at a sports store once, and there's this guy stealing stuff, the store manager was ready for him this time, because he does it frequently. So they lock all the doors in the shop, and wait for the cops to arrive, 45 minutes later they still haven't arrived. Eventualy he escapes through the back door. Its so slack, you cant touch them because then you would be charged with assualt, so you gotta wait till the boys in blue can be bothered coming round. My sister works at Target and sees this happen all the time, very rarley anything gets done about it, makes me so angery.

Anyway just thought i'd ask about other peoples experiences, i really hate seeing injustice

[ashbox]

generally you would find instore security and point the lady out.

[TI3VOM]

Legally I'm pretty sure security can check her bag if they think she has been stealing. Just like police can do a body search on you if they believe you have a dangerous weapon.

[minux]

In Australia you can make a citizen arrest perfectly legally. For example if you see someone shove goods down their pants, you can prevent them from leaving the store as they alreayd have made a clear sign they intend to steal. If they are using bags, you wait until they leave the store as this has also shown the intent to not pay.

If a store has a sign stating they reserve the right to check bags, then the customer MUST oblige. The store worker however cannot touch any item in the bag. The laws do vary state to state, in SA(customers can refuse etc), you do not need a sign, in WA you do etc. It is one big cluster ****.

[azkwazere]

1. Would like to see some laws to back that up
2. The crim would just press chargers for whatever, assult maybe, then you get fined. Who would do it?

aZk.

In Australia you can make a citizen arrest perfectly legally. For example if you see someone shove goods down their pants, you can prevent them from leaving the store as they alreayd have made a clear sign they intend to steal. If they are using bags, you wait until they leave the store as this has also shown the intent to not pay.

If a store has a sign stating they reserve the right to check bags, then the customer MUST oblige. The store worker however cannot touch any item in the bag. The laws do vary state to state, in SA(customers can refuse etc), you do not need a sign, in WA you do etc. It is one big cluster ****.

[TVR-190]

our old nightfill manager had an interesting way of dealing with them, grab them and push them up against a wall and start telling them to give the stock back...

You will notice most stores have signs saying it is a condition of entry that we can check bags, however we musnt touch anything in the bag otherwise they can claim we planted it.

Also, most staff wont bother as its not worth the total head**** of filling in reports about the incident, etc and if the person gets abusive or has a weapon its just not worth it to most staff to take the effort and risk injury or legal action for what they get paid.

[minux]

CITIZEN'S ARREST

Section 462A of the Crimes Act (Vic) provides that any person may use such force as is believed on reasonable grounds to be necessary to:

* prevent the commission, continuance or completion of an indictable offence; or
* lawfully arrest a person committing or suspected of committing any offence,

so long as the force is proportionate to the particular objective.

The arrest must always be lawful and thus an ordinary citizen must still abide by section 458. The arrestor must not only suspect a person of committing an offence but must find the person committing the offence, unless the arrestor is either:

* acting on the lawful instructions of a police officer; or
* arresting a person who is believed to be escaping from a lawful custody.

With Commonwealth offences, any person may arrest without warrant a suspect if they reasonably believe that the suspect is committing, or has just committed, an indictable offence, and that the case is not one that can be properly dealt with by police sending the suspect a summons to attend at court. The person who makes the arrest must hand the suspect over to police as soon as practicable (s.3Z Crimes Act (Cth)).

A "citizen's arrest" is any arrest by a person other than a police officer or under a warrant to arrest. Therefore, an arrest by a security guard, store detective or other such person is a citizen's arrest and must comply with the requirements of a citizen's arrest.

Taken from ARREST

[Demonica]

I really hate people that steal. Selfish bunch of pricks. We're the ones that end up paying for it since the shops have to cover their losses so they raise prices.

[Tim Smtih]

In Australia you can make a citizen arrest perfectly legally.

I know what you are saying and please continue to quote legal sources as this is great information to have on hand, but i think that most people don't wish to cop a blade between the fourth and fifth ribs if they can avoid it. Stores have insurance don't they? One of the best things you can do that doesn't involve spear tackling the perpetrator is to get a good look at them and give an accurate description to the police.

[Troy711]

our old nightfill manager had an interesting way of dealing with them, grab them and push them up against a wall and start telling them to give the stock back...

You will notice most stores have signs saying it is a condition of entry that we can check bags, however we musnt touch anything in the bag otherwise they can claim we planted it.

Also, most staff wont bother as its not worth the total head**** of filling in reports about the incident, etc and if the person gets abusive or has a weapon its just not worth it to most staff to take the effort and risk injury or legal action for what they get paid.

Service 100?

[Holden_Man]

The workers there see her come in everyday and steal shit, but their's nothing they can do, because they cant make her open her bag.

That seems strange to me as our Woolies has signs on the checkouts. "Be prepared to open bags for inspection." Or have policies changed recently?

[stocky]

Last person that tried to steal while I was working alone got knocked to the ground haha.

If it was an old lady, I would just wait for her to pay, and hopefully she pays with eftpos, then I can get her name. I would confront her about it at the checkout anyway. Deal with plenty of thieves at my bottle shop. Some of the excuses they come up with are just moronic.

For as long as I can remember, places like target have had people at the door to check peoples bags. It doesnt bother most normal people.

Interesting post minux. Some good info. Good to know what I can and can't do with thieves.

[Macca86]

Service 100. hahaha. That brings back some memories
I do know at Woolworths the policy states that we can ask to see in bags, but not touch anything. We can request them to move items to see under them, but really when it all comes down to it the customer can just refuse and walk out, There is nothing we can do. We are under NO circumstances allowed to force them to stay in the store or open a bag or anything.

[Maxxiz]

If for any reason someone is locked in a store, it is false inprisonment and carries big charges. Similar story with a citizens arrest, I was actually discussing this today. Most cases of citizens arrest end badly, the person doing the arrest usually gets charged for false inprisonment and/or assault. Very dark area, wouldnt do it, really not worth it.

[minux]

Service 100. hahaha. That brings back some memories
I do know at Woolworths the policy states that we can ask to see in bags, but not touch anything. We can request them to move items to see under them, but really when it all comes down to it the customer can just refuse and walk out, There is nothing we can do. We are under NO circumstances allowed to force them to stay in the store or open a bag or anything.

Clearly that is Woolworths staff policy. Not law.

[minux]

If for any reason someone is locked in a store, it is false inprisonment and carries big charges. Similar story with a citizens arrest, I was actually discussing this today. Most cases of citizens arrest end badly, the person doing the arrest usually gets charged for false inprisonment and/or assault. Very dark area, wouldnt do it, really not worth it.

It is only false improsenment if you 1. They did no crime and 2. You did not call the police.

If you follow it by the book, you cannot be charged for false imprisonment. Fairly sure you would be covered under "Lawful excuse".

Perhaps you could link to some case studies about it?

Edit: Re being locked in a store. I can only find cases where the people that have been locked in a store have been charged with trespass.

[Macca86]

Clearly that is Woolworths staff policy. Not law.

I clearly stated that it was woolworths Policy at the start of my post not law. We would get an official warning towards dismissal if we were to use force to make a suspected shoplifter stay in store. Having said that 99% of thieves just get embarrassed and hand over the good very quickly when you wait for them at the store exit and step in front of them after they have gone through checkouts without paying.

[minux]

I clearly stated that it was woolworths Policy at the start of my post not law.

Hence my "Cleary that is Woolworths policy".... nm, interwebz needs emphasis chat lol.

[Macca86]

Agreed. Lol. My bad

[ozz]

For as long as I can remember, places like target have had people at the door to check peoples bags. It doesnt bother most normal people.

I dont steal anything, but it does bother me. I hate being made to feel guilty of something i havn't done.
If i get really sick of being asked (going to a bunch of shops in a day or something) ill usually end up just telling them no, they cant check my bag

[Ado]

Service 100. hahaha. That brings back some memories
I do know at Woolworths the policy states that we can ask to see in bags, but not touch anything. We can request them to move items to see under them, but really when it all comes down to it the customer can just refuse and walk out, There is nothing we can do. We are under NO circumstances allowed to force them to stay in the store or open a bag or anything.

Im pretty sure it the same with those electronic things at the registers.If it beeps the staff can ask you if you havnt payed for anything and you can just say "no"and walk.

[Dayvo]

My daughter works at Safeway and they catch on average 4 per week and the police are there in about 20 minutes . The latest trend is to use the insulated cooler bags so they can walk out with out setting off the security alarm . Another one is to have someone waiting outside the emergency exit with their car while their partner fills up a couple of bags full of shopping then race out the emergency doors and into the car for a quick getaway.

[pillzor]

i had an emplyee of coles following me around the store the other day trying to be discrete about it ( lol ) so i pretended to put something in my pocket and went and paid for my groceries and hung around out the front of coles after checkout just to see if they were sussing me out or not , turns out she was and all that happened was a security guard came and asked me to turn my pockets out which i do so infront of said coles worker.
took a good 5 minutes for the security guard to come and talk too me which would have been way more than long enough to casually walk out and jump in my car and drive off..... if i was a thief it would be goddamn easy.

[Ado]

i had an emplyee of coles following me around the store the other day trying to be discrete about it ( lol ) so i pretended to put something in my pocket and went and paid for my groceries and hung around out the front of coles after checkout just to see if they were sussing me out or not , turns out she was and all that happened was a security guard came and asked me to turn my pockets out which i do so infront of said coles worker.
took a good 5 minutes for the security guard to come and talk too me which would have been way more than long enough to casually walk out and jump in my car and drive off..... if i was a thief it would be goddamn easy.

If you are seen stealing something they can not take their eyes off you.If you did try to steal something and you dumped it later in the store before leaving,if they were to grab you and hold you for the Police they could be in the shit.I have known a few undercover store detectives(what ever their correct name is) and if they lose sight of a suspect they will not pull them up.

[pillzor]

If you are seen stealing something they can not take their eyes off you.If you did try to steal something and you dumped it later in the store before leaving,if they were to grab you and hold you for the Police they could be in the shit.I have known a few undercover store detectives(what ever their correct name is) and if they lose sight of a suspect they will not pull them up.

it wasnt an undercover it was a checkout chick! i was suprised that i wasnt grabbed by store detectives to tell the truth , the security guard who asked me too turn my pockets out wasnt even a part of coles he was mall security.