Missing under load :-(

[GOTMYN]

Hi Everyone,

I've just put a deposit down on a 2001 Rodeo dual Cab V6 4x4,
It's just hit 200k with full service history, and just had a $2500 service, including Timing belt, water Pump, Brakes all round etc...... It had LPG fitted just on 2yrs ago.

Now, problem is, i took it for a test drive last night, and about 5 mins into the test, it began to miss under load, I'm not talking about dropping one cylinder, it was almost like it dropped half a cylinder from three or more??
No Power, no acceleration, no backfiring etc, just jolting and could only just increase speed... as soon as I let off the pedal, it drove smooth, sounded good, and gently increased speed. I know these engines are renowned for burning valves on gas, but it seems to be spasmotic..... Engined idle was smooth and fine when I first inspected the car, but once I drove it and arrived back, it was fluttering violently from the exhaust...

as I headed home to investigate common problems with these engines, the owner pulled up along side me, and asked that I pull my car over and go for a drive as the problem had gone...........
I declined and went home to investigate. now he came to my house later on and it has started doing it again. I have had no previous exp with these cars, so I thought I'd ask to see if anyone knows common problems with them, rather than me spending hours trying to diagnose it, and probably wasting $$ in the process....

My first thought was Coils, but they don't normally play up, and it's not dropping one cylinder and pulsing, it is dropping more than that, and jolting in an uneaven manner, then coming good for approx 1 second, then jolting again, My next thought was Fuel pump, but it does it on both Petrol and Gas.......
Air Filter is clean, Maf and T/B are clean, Oil is new, Coolant is new.
Normally I wouldn't bother and look for another car to buy, but this one is like new, inside and out, and feels really tight to drive, Diff/Gearbox & engine make no noise at all, steers sensational, and has a very positive feel when on the road unlike others I have driven.
I really want to buy this car, just interested to find out what it is I need to replace so my Family and I can begin to enjoy it :-)

Any Help or advice is greatly appreciated, i know it's not a commodore, but at least it's a Holden :-)

[Lumps of cheese]

Mate, i know a bloke that had one of these and apart from anything else, it ate the fuel like it was going out of fashion. It literally ran off the smell of a 44 gallon drum, it was that bad. Not sure about the problem you mention, could just need a tune or could be major, hard to tell. If you really like it then get it checked right out before you part with your hard earned. I had a 2002 dual cab 4x4 rodeo for 7 years and it was an excellent no frills 4x4 ute that you could chuck the family in and head bush with. Very reliable and great on fuel BUT........it was a diesel

[nemesis_adrasteia]

pretty obvious but did you check the plugs and leads?

[GOTMYN]

pretty obvious but did you check the plugs and leads?

Yes mate, Plugs are NGK Iridiums, fitted a few weeks ago, and......... It doesn't have leads :-)
Coil Plugs straight into each plug as it sits on top of them.....Yep...:-( ............6 Coils :-(...............

[illusionalvr]

check the fuel filter along the left hand chassis rail. i discovered that a small amount of air was getting past the seal under suction. eg, acceration.

[GOTMYN]

check the fuel filter along the left hand chassis rail. i discovered that a small amount of air was getting past the seal under suction. eg, acceration.

Cheers mate, I will replace it for sure, but its not the problem, coz it does it on gas as well :-(

[nemesis_adrasteia]

Yes mate, Plugs are NGK Iridiums, fitted a few weeks ago, and......... It doesn't have leads :-)
Coil Plugs straight into each plug as it sits on top of them.....Yep...:-( ............6 Coils :-(...............

ah right coil over plug. well was it bahaving that way before the plugs were changed?

did you check the coils for shorting? faint white lines on the coil, they will smell like burnt electrical stuuf usually if theyre shorting.

[GOTMYN]

ah right coil over plug. well was it bahaving that way before the plugs were changed?

did you check the coils for shorting? faint white lines on the coil, they will smell like burnt electrical stuuf usually if theyre shorting.

Yeh mate, It all seems good :-(
He said it started when he got it back from the mechanic, but only did it for about ten mins, and has since been ok, about 2 mnths.......
I'm still going to buy it, as i am almost cirtain it isn't a valve problem.......
I'd love to be able to fix it on the first day I own it, that's all :-)
He has dropped the price $500 to pay for the repairs :-)

[GOTMYN]

Just spoke to him, he said it drove great today, so obviously an electrical problem of some sort :-)
I get it tuesday night, so the fun begins :-)))

[bandit10]

hope you dont live to regret it, its never a good idea to buy a car that has issues your unsure about.

[tr3nt]

I know you've said you checked the spark (plugs/coils) however I had the EXACT same issue with the parents VS v6, took it to a mates place, checked the obvious from air filter, throttle body, sparks, leads, MAF sensor, reset ecu etc.. turned out one of the leads was slightly stuffed, and on load it wouldnt spark correctly.

[illusionalvr]

i read that it was on both, just read over it and didnt think much about it. that in mind, it must be on the engine side of the fuel and gas system. maybe disconnect the battery for half hour or something. worth a shot. get the computer looked at etc. it it injected or converter ?

[Garth]

ah, if i was you, i would walk away from this issue.

we had a old rodeo, 2001 model, did the exact same thing, it was the begining of the end for this car. the lack of power under acceleration, and what appered to be a missing, droping in 1 cyclinder was infact a valve sticking, we put the clutch in, reved it quickly, it came good and off we would go for a few more minutes before having to do this again. it was the valve on the intake side for number 3. so if i was you, i would get it checked by a pro before you continue. this coudl turn into being a expensive repair.. mine wasnt a gas one, just a normal petrol type. and it chewed petrol badly, terible economy

[GOTMYN]

Thanx guys,

The car is pretty cheap, so if I was forced to spend up to 2grand, I would be about where any other rodeo of it's condition is......
I'm a mechanic, so any labour is free, I don't work on cars, and havn't since 1995, I am now on heavy vehicles. I have a few friends with workshops, so I will plug it into their diagnostic software and see what comes up :-)...

I know it seems logical to walk away from it, but my gut tells me go for it...........
I'm thinking that when they replaced the plugs on it, they damaged the stalk to one of the coils while taking them off.....
I will pinpoint the cylinders being naughty, and swap coils to the L/H rocker cover, and it all moves over there......Bingo :-)
A few mins on the dyno experimenting should bring me an outcome......

I was hoping one of you was going to say....Yep it's @#!$%#$^&*$&(), they do it all the time...lol... Wishfull thinking.......




Thanks heaps everyone for your input :-)

Here it is :-)HOLDEN RODEO 2001 LT 4WD DUAL CAB PETROL /GAS VGC MELB - eBay, Passenger Vehicles, Cars, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 03-Jul-10 16:25:40 AEST)

[2005vzute]

Can't go wrong with a gut feeling, as long you trust that you know what you're doing and your prepared to spend money and you think it's worth it, why not

i took the risk of buying my ute from auctions, no test drive nothing, was an electricians car so who knows what apprentices had trashed it...tranny coulda been stuffed, diff coulda been stuffed, but stuck with the gut feeling koz i knew i could get parts and labour cheap if i didn't do it myself, so i bought the ute, but everything was fine, going in for a minor service with all fluids being flushed

anyways, aslong as it feels right, then go for it

[GOTMYN]

Cheers Mate,

Yeah pretty excited really, I know I can fix it, so hey...........no Problem :-)

Can't wait to get back out in the bush, next to a river somewhere, a nice fire and some awesome sight seeing ..................
I will post up some pix as soon as I get it home...

[GOTMYN]

OK, just picked it up :-)
It drove great for about 5 mins at which point it dropped a cylinder, and then it kept coming back every now and again.....
Maybe a sticky Valve like previously described, or possibly electrical, I will check it out over the next few days and see what I can find :-)
Otherwise, very happy.

Pix tomorrow :-)

[Blown V6 Hatch]

It'll be a sticky valve. The Rodeo V6s have nothing but trouble with the heads, they burn valves bad on gas, they wear valve stem seals and start chewing the oil, they wear valve guides. I would have steered clear of a Rodeo on gas period, let alone one with an intermittent missfire.....

I can see why it's on gas though, they're REALLY thirsty on petrol, but they destroy the heads on gas. Real catch 22. If the heads are stuffed, put an injected 5 litre in it, you'll never look back.

[GOTMYN]

Yeh I would rather get it going right for now, the senator is my project atm......
I had planned this one to be my daily driver :-)
See what i can do to free it up ..............

[Blown V6 Hatch]

My guess is, you're going to be up for a reco head or 2. In my experience, the cheapest car normally ends up being the most expensive car....

What leads me to think it's a mechanical misfire is because if it was an electrical missfire, it would be backfiring like crazy on gas.

[GOTMYN]

My guess is, you're going to be up for a reco head or 2. In my experience, the cheapest car normally ends up being the most expensive car....

What leads me to think it's a mechanical misfire is because if it was an electrical missfire, it would be backfiring like crazy on gas.

:-(

I can get reco heads for $500 each, and I'd say a gasket set,Oil,Coolant etc would set me back $500 at the most.......
I will look into it this weekend, and see where I stand with it..........
A bottle of Liqui Moly can do wonders...lol....

[vkberlina]

I have an R9 for my work ute its a great work horse itsm a 2wd petrol on GasI get 350km out of a tank of fuel and 330km out of 63l gas fully loaded full of gear. Coils would be my first bet esp if its just happened after the service. Dont get just one reco heard do both and get a pair. I saw a V6 with one head done they decked the head and it wouldnt line up with the inlet manifold correctly.
The only other problem they seem to have is the connector through the floor under the drivers seat for the fuel pump can melt. The V6 R9 responds well to a higher flowing air filter and exhaust fuel economy gets better, im waiting for my exhaust to need replacing for an excuse to do a twin pipe setup

If you want the handling to improve they respond well to koni shocks as well I just put a set of koni red adjustable on mine which was improved steering and cornering from the original FEII setup

hope all goes well with it

cheers
Scott

[GOTMYN]

Hey Scott,

Thanx for the info mate.
I drove it to work today, it drove good, but it is very underpowered :-(
The missing was in and out, but even when it wasn't missing, it was gutless!!
Got home tonight after work, and had a quick look, and after removing injector plugs while running, I found that the middle cylinder on the passenger side is doing nothing, removed coil wire, and the engine pattern did not change ......

i did the usual fluid checks, and then :-((((((
The filler cap was white as snow........ I checked it when I test drove it, and is was bright yellow, clean oil.....
Now it is cappacino.......
Not sure what to do about it, either strip it down and find the problem, or run a bottle of Seal up through it if that fails chemiweld.....
or source another engine??????

I know a V8 is an awesome possability, but the cost would be too much atm..........

Such a clean car, in such good condition, yet the engine seems screwed.........
glad i got it cheap ..................

[vkberlina]

Just a thought have you checked the exhaust a blocked cat could cause similar problem with running crap, wont explain the oil though unless its winter condensation from short trips.

cheers
Scott

[GOTMYN]

Just a thought have you checked the exhaust a blocked cat could cause similar problem with running crap, wont explain the oil though unless its winter condensation from short trips.

cheers
Scott

Cheers Mate,

Yeah Exhaust is on the cards, prolly next week, and I decided to run a bottle of Cargo Seal-up through it, should keep the water at home for a little while at least :-)