Banned
FINALLY!!! What I've been saying all along... (re powerful cars)
It's NEVER the car's ability that kills or causes injury, it's the driver's inability.
From: Powerful Cars - Office of Road and Safety
The full report can be read here.The Problem / Issue
Contrary to popular myth, young drivers are no more at risk of death or serious injury by driving powerful cars than other drivers. Vehicle performance is unrelated to a novice driver's risk of being killed or seriously injured in the first two years of holding a licence.
What We're Doing
Young novice drivers are no more at risk of death or serious injury driving powerful cars than other drivers, a University of Western Australia study has found.
The study looked at 662 serious injury crashes in 1999 and 2000 in WA and compared the power to weight ratio of crashed vehicles with the power to weight ratio of vehicles driven by novice drivers who did not crash during the same period. Only three per cent of crashed vehicles had a power to weight ratio above 100 kilowatts a tonne of vehicle weight and only two vehicles had power to weight ratio above 125 kilowatts.
The study highlighted speeding as the cause of most crashes involving young drivers and noted that, with the majority of crashes happening in 70 km/h speed zones or less, even the lowest powered vehicles driven at excessive speed are a problem.
What is clear is that although many cars on the road are capable of extreme speeds, the main issue is the way people drive their vehicles, rather than the capabilities of the vehicle itself. It is a fact that even small cars have the ability to accelerate fast and travel at speeds high enough to cause injury or even death.
Given the increasing community concern about novice drivers' access to high powered vehicles, the Road Safety Council has recommended that further research on the crash involvement of novice drivers be conducted before further recommendations be made to Government.
Banned
Well fuggin DUHHH...
Why does it take a University to discover that??
Banned
Because govts pander to the cardigans and the sheeple who think young people in less powerful cars are safer.Originally Posted by soop
Banned
Yep, which is why now they'll legislate to have cars speed limited to 90kmh, and must weigh a minimum of 2200kg.
these days power isnt an issue really, even a toyota Yaris can do well over the speed limit. It might not be able to do 200km/h but it can still speed to the point of being dangerous.
lets just provide good quality driver training to novice drivers instead. Oh wait, that costs money.
Nothing will change. The government's road safety juggernaut will roll on as per usual. What was the point of this thread again?
L337
don't worry the government will still think that v8's and P platers are still to blame
Yet Another VS Ute Owner
they can do all the studies they like, nothing will change the governments take on p platers.
we will forever be hoons.
sure, we get excited being new on the roads.
but the amount of older drivers i see on the road in their AMG mercedes and toy boy racers weeving in and out of traffic is just the same.
http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/...first-car.html My VS Ute, 99', S Pac, 5 Speed.
whilst any additional training is good, I don't believe that's going to solve the problem either.
teach a testosterone charged kid how to control a car sliding at 100kph and they will hit the roads believing they are Colin Macrae and try to slide the car at 150kph. If new drivers didn't street race, drive 30kph over the speed limit in the wrong areas, conditions, didn't fall victim to peer pressure and try to impress their mates, quite simply the number of young drivers being injured or killed in unneccessary accidents would be significantly reduced. But it ain't going to happen, because that's the way it's always been.
Most of us have probably been there and done that, and there will be members of this forum that are doing it now. It's more good luck rather than training that kept us alive and nothing has changed, except these days the roads are more crowded which has increased the chances of these new drivers experimenting in their cars, hitting something.
Train drivers as much as you like, they are still going to drive like idiots, it all comes down to attitude. In my opinion, if the government is serious about reducing the road toll (which they clearly aren't), rather than just coming up with ridiculous, pointless laws that simply are a political stunt to make them appear like they are doing something, when in fact they aren't........ they could start either subsidising and/or organising sponsorship of motorsport events (and some respected motor racing mentors) for the average rev head to go out on the track and have their fun in a controlled, relatively safe environment. If the cost of going out on a track was more affordable through a scheme like this, then the all the young wannabe racers in their VN Commodores & Skylines could go out and release some of that testosterone & addrenaline without risking their own and other motorists lives. And by getting some of it out of their system, many won't be as likely to feel the need to test their car and skills out on the street.
L337
yes,
If you have kids running around with skate boards in your town , build them a skatepark
If you have young kids running around hanging of poles and what not , build them a playground
and so on
if you have young drivers hooning around, build them a race track
the new licence laws with L,P etc are just stupid there is no other word for it. you can still drive a V8 on p plates as at last check a 253 holden V8 comes under the limits. a motorbike learner is limited to 250cc but hells teeth some of those 250cc bikes are damn quick,in some cases a heck of alot quicker than a car. the laws dont work,are buggered up & useless,we all know this,we all can cross our fingers & hope they see the light but reality is words are just that. just words. they can give all the statistics in the world but they wont make a difference,they wont change any laws or anything. one example is a packet of ciggarettes will give you statistics saying tobacco is the top cause of death,we all know its bad for us(even though we still do it,me included)the government knows its bad otherwise they wouldnt want to make them come in plain packaging or put this info on the packs to begin with,or ban it in certain places etc. but do they do anything about it,nope. because it comes down to the mighty dollar. someone or some people somewhere make money out of restricting the vehicles we can drive,so nothing is done despite any statistics etc.
down off my soap box now,lol
A pessimist is a man who thinks all woman are bad. An optimist is a man who hopes they are
Banned
You can't drive a 253 powered VB commodore, but you can drive a 3.8ltr VN. Essentially the same weight, but i can Guarantee you which engine goes harder.
But wait, the 253 is a V8, so it will instantly kill you...
I was sure your able to drive a 253 holden as they are a 4.2 litre & i thought the limit was 4.5. Either that or am getting to old & they have changed the rules again. Or have they just said no 8 cylinder vehicles now. Even then there are some hell fast vehicles that arent 8 cylinders.
Just had a looksee & its anything above 8 cylinders or considered high performance that a p plater cant drive.......but if your clever you could get an exemption from this silly law in several ways. For example you have owned the car before 2007(which must be the last law change)you need to drive it for work,you have no other car to drive,its owned by a family member but given to you to drive & a whole bunch more. But where theres a will,theres a way
On a stupid note they reccomend p platers drive one of the following vehicles;
The following vehicles are exempt and can be driven:
Suzuki Cappuccino 2D Cabriolet Turbo 3 657-698cc (1992-1997)
Daihatsu Copen L880 2D Convertible Turbo 4 659cc (2003 or later)
Smart fortwo coupe 2D Turbo 3 698cc (2000 or later)
Smart fortwo Cabriolet Turbo 3 2D 698cc (2000 or later)
Smart Roadster Turbo 3 2D 698cc (2000 or later).
Last edited by VTLS1; 18-08-2010 at 12:10 AM. Reason: found the silly laws
A pessimist is a man who thinks all woman are bad. An optimist is a man who hopes they are
Rolling on 4 again :D
Corrected
but if your clever you could get an exemption from this silly law in several ways. For example:
1) you have owned the car before 2007 Correct, but speculative. Police may still fine you. TMR does not have a strict policy.
2) you need to drive it for work, Correct
3) you have no other car to drive, Correct
4) its owned by a family member but given to you to drive Incorrect. This only applies if 3) applies also, in which case it is redundant.
They are not recommended, they are just exempt.On a stupid note they will allow p platers to drive one of the following vehicles;
The following vehicles are exempt and can be driven:
Suzuki Cappuccino 2D Cabriolet Turbo 3 657-698cc (1992-1997)
Daihatsu Copen L880 2D Convertible Turbo 4 659cc (2003 or later)
Smart fortwo coupe 2D Turbo 3 698cc (2000 or later)
Smart fortwo Cabriolet Turbo 3 2D 698cc (2000 or later)
Smart Roadster Turbo 3 2D 698cc (2000 or later).
Too many projects.....
That's the rediculous part of all these rules....A young kid who likes his old cars, can't even go and drive a 253 HQ or similar but you can drive a V6 powered Commodore? It's crazy....
boosted!
Of course they are, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sick of hoons doing "burnouts" in front wheel drives in my front lawn doing doeys in my driveway you must think of the children!
that is exactly my situation. except instead of a 3.8litre vn its a manual v6 vs ute.
no vb because it has 8 cylinders, doesnt matter that it can hardly get out of the way of itself so i've gotta drive around in something that is alot more powerful.
derr derrrpa derr.
cant say any active safety stuff is different between the two either, both have no abs, tcs, airbags etc.
Banned
Its spastic.
And clearly shows why we need people who HAVE HALF AN IDEA to legislate these things, not politicians who legislate against what tabloid newspapers report in order to keep power and line their own pockets.
Mrs Wraith
At the end of the day the government has to blame someone and that someone they choose to put the blame on is P platers. But then again it's been happening for decades if not centuries- older people are always happy to let the younger generation take the blame regardless of whether or not they are the ones who are at fault.
it was really annoying because at the time when i was building my car the rules said that you could drive a 253, so i bought an engine and just did a basic freshen up then just about when it was finished the rules changed. what a waste of money. instead of going a 253 i could have done similar in a 308, probably get better fuel economy too.
so now the vb is sitting in the shed. its only done 2,000kms since middle of 07.
Banned
Younger ones generally are at fault though. But that's just it, its the people behind the wheel that are the problem. Not the engine infront of it.
Actually, i think proper driver training IS the answer.
Because my view of proper driver training includes putting the driver into bad situations - IE sliding sideways at 100kph. Or on a wet surface at 70 etc.
Firstly they will then have some experience of dealing with these situations
Secondly having experienced these situations they will have sopme idea of the risks and repercussions
Thirdly they will have burnt off some of the testosterone or progesterone during training.
My basis for comment is the low youth driver fatality rate in certain european countries (Like Denmark and Austria) that spend billions on driver training centres with water walls (curtains of water shot out of nozzles in the concrete apron, so that road layouts can be changed randomly, rapidly without consequence) and wobble boards (to send cars in unexpected directions at unexpected times and attitudes).
boosted!
Bing bing bing we have a winner.
Usually the faster cars stop quicker as well..
SkyFall
Gotta love the rules, cant drive a 253 V8 with 150BHP at new
but you can drive an Audi Q7 Twin Turbo diesel V12 Legally, which has 1000 Nm of torque, does 0-100 in 5.5 seconds and has 500 BHP...
The Black Beauty
Banned
Its diesel, so its slow derr...derp da derp...
Fug I hate our retarded society.
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