Any Help? "Trap Speed" on new Police Cars & Disputing Police Fines?

[Robertr]

Hey

I was pulled up by a police car and given a fine by using the trap speed on the car and I am looking to dispute it.

We were going down a hill and the police car was closing the distance between the whole time until they pulled me over. I checked my speedo when they hit the lights I don't think I was at the speed they recorded or even not speeding at all.

How does the trap speed work exactly? Do you have to hold the button down for a certain amount of time or is it the moment you press a button that is the recorded speed on the dash?

The police told me they had to follow at the same speed for some amount of time to get a lock, which I find a bit off as they were closing on me. But if that is the case I could have been speeding down the hill and just didn't know, however I still don't think I was traveling at their recorded speed. But if it is recorded just by the press of a button they could have clocked it at their maximum speed catching up to me? I asked and they had no radar or film footage just the trap speed on the dash.

If you have any information on Trap speed or any advice about disputing a police fine that would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Rob

[acarmody]

Is 4 threads enough or do you think you can make some more?

[Robertr]

haha, nah, i think im good with 4, just wanted to get it out there get as much feedback/information as possible.
sorry didn't read the rules first.

[FstStig]

You can try to Dispute it, but generally its their word against yours generally their word will win. Why were you working your speed off the Digital speedo and not using your analog speedo? It's there from the factory for a reason. Just letting you know that if you chose to dispute it sometimes the out come can be worse then the initial fine. Unless you know you can win it, I would just be sucking it up, paying the fine, coping the lose of points and move on. If you are on your red P's then I would look at fighting it, you will probably have to go sit a drivers offenders course or be put on a 12month good behavior bond.

[acarmody]

My advice is to just pay it, you won't win.

[Robertr]

No i went by my analog when i checked, I was shown the trap speed on the police digital speedo and I'm looking at disputing that as there was no radar or video along with that. No I'm not on my P's just want to maintain a immaculate driving record and think the fine is bullshit. So what can happen if a dispute fails?

Cheers

[acarmody]

Seriously, that's not optimism or anything, its just fact. You have no proof that you weren't and the police are counted as expert witnesses, their word is proof.

[hakhawk]

one thread is all you need mate, read the rules.

[Sabbath']

Get a lawyer. You'll need one to seriously dispute this. One who is practiced in this type of law.

[acarmody]

Get a lawyer. You'll need one to seriously dispute this. One who is practiced in this type of law.

And be prepared to pay a hell of a lot more than the fine.

[Macca86]

Agreed. How much is your immaculate driving record worth to you? If you dispute it and take it to court, it WILL cost you many thousand dollars, AND its still almost a certainty that they will rule against you. As has been said, police are considered 'expert witnesses' so you'd have to have pretty hard evidence that you werent speeding to win. And as was also said, if you fight it and loose, the fine will be increased from the original fine (on top of the thousands you've already spent). Honestly if you have full points and your not gonna loose your licence, just pay the fine of a few hundred bucks at most and deal with the fact you dont have an unblemished record.

[kuzman89]

mate, just do what i've done a few times.

Write them a nice letter explaining how you believe you weren't speeding, and say you have an immaculate driving record. And ask if the fine can be downgraded to a warning. If it is your first driving offense I think you are entitled to a warning.

[pattobro]

i was clocked driving my missus car 13 ks over the limit while on my red p's and got away with a slap on the wrist by writing them a letter pretty much suckiung up their ass might not always work but always worth a shot.. if you try dispute it you will be worse off whether you win or loose imo

[acarmody]

A letter can't hurt. A nice polite, letter, where you polity state your case, and your record. And don't ask to be let off or for a warning, just ask for your history to be considered.

[Sabbath']

Just out of interest...what speed did they get you at, and what speed zone were you in?

[cds]

Hi Mate,

Here in VIC, ive used this 2 times (i wouldn't try anymore than twice in a close period of time) http://online.fines.vic.gov.au/fines...fringement.pdf download that document print it and selection option1 for Exceptional Circumstances and in an additional A4 page type out a nice sincere letter stating you admit to the offence but because of your clean driving records ask for an official warning.

Also - if they refuse giving you an official warning, you will not need to pay additional fees. Just have to pay the regular fine, this is sort of like a 2nd chance thing before trying to send this to court in front of a magistrate and probably lose and then have to pay court fees of approx $70-95~

Take caution when using these though as, they aren't stupid and it doesn't take very long for them to catch onto a driver who has no brains.

[ClairBear]

nah i went by my analog when i checked, I was shown the trap speed on the police digital speedo and I'm looking at disputing that as there was no radar or video along with that. Nah I'm not on my P's just want to maintain a immaculate driving record and think the fine is bullshit. So what can happen if a dispute fails?

Cheers

The word is "no" not "nah"

If your dispute fails you will pay the fine and associated court costs, plus legal fees if you engage a Lawyer.

[greenacc]

I've read in other threads that the factory speedos in COP cars have stickers on them saying something like not accurate, guide only or something. So how can they ping you based on their non calibrated speedo ?

[a1k3m1]

your doomed dude, as everyone else has said, you wont be able to argue, as all the cops speed equipment is all regularly tested for accuracy .. As CD's said you could attempt in filling out the appeal application.. and telling them about your good record, i tried that once and failed.. But im only on P's .. And depends how fast you were going if they let you off with a warning, But my dollar says your stuck and gotta pay it.


But hey join in, who here hasn't been booked or lost their license at least one? lol

[acarmody]

I've read in other threads that the factory speedos in COP cars have stickers on them saying something like not accurate, guide only or something. So how can they ping you based on their non calibrated speedo ?

Don't know where you got that from. Cop speedos are regularly checked for accuracy.

[Robertr]

mate, just do what i've done a few times.
Write them a nice letter explaining how you believe you weren't speeding, and say you have an immaculate driving record. And ask if the fine can be downgraded to a warning. If it is your first driving offense I think you are entitled to a warning.

I didn't know you could do that. Thanks

A letter can't hurt. A nice polite, letter, where you polity state your case, and your record. And don't ask to be let off or for a warning, just ask for your history to be considered.

I would definitely consider a letter before court. I'll look into it but would you know where I could send one in QLD? Theres no option on the fine. Dep of transport and main roads or police?

Get a lawyer. You'll need one to seriously dispute this. One who is practiced in this type of law.
Just out of interest...what speed did they get you at, and what speed zone were you in?

If I was to go to court I would be representing myself. I'm getting in contact this week with a friend who is in law and another mate lives with a traffic cop and I was able to ask him a couple of questions. Everyones right it could cost a bit more but I'm prepared to part with a bit more if I did have a chance in beating it. I really think this fine is BS and I don't just want to roll over and cop it if they had made a mistake.
87km in a 70.

I've read in other threads that the factory speedos in COP cars have stickers on them saying something like not accurate, guide only or something. So how can they ping you based on their non calibrated speedo ?

Acarmody is right. For the speedos to be considered accurate they have to be tested at least every 6 months.

The "Trap Speed" is attached to the speedo but its not the accuracy of the speedo I would be arguing, its the method. I would be arguing that they had made a human error in recording my speed and had done so outside of guidelines as stated in their manual (found a couple of points so far).

I've got to do a bit more research into it and I'm also still waiting on advice from my law friend and some more information on how "Trap Speed" on the new commodores work as that is all they had recorded, no radar or video. I'll start with the letter of appeal first.

Thanks to everyone for the replies so far.

[Sabbath']

The method would be one that would be legally water tight enough to hold up in court. Otherwise they would find themselves dragged into court everytime somebody got caught going 17km/h over the limit and unhappy to pay the fine

[acarmody]

I'm not 100% sure but I think you send the letter to the senior officer of the station, of the cop that gave you the fine. Go to a cop shop and ask them who to send it too.

[greenacc]

In NSW you send letters of apeal to the place you send your money ... its called the OSD ( Office of State Revenue ) down here.

[Robertr]

The method would be one that would be legally water tight enough to hold up in court. Otherwise they would find themselves dragged into court everytime somebody got caught going 17km/h over the limit and unhappy to pay the fine

Yeah thats true, and I understand, why would a police officer pull me over without reason. I just think they have made a mistake when attaining my speed. Whether I was only speeding a little or not at all I don't beleive I was going 87. Not all the methods can be watertight unless there would be no appeal process and/or no one would ever win. I would have been happy to cop the fine if it said it there clearly on a radar that I was doing 87. But they recorded it with the "trap speed". There is nothing about trap speed in the police manual. Chapter 6 - Speed Detection

So far my understanding of "trap speed" is just a button that records the speed of the car that its in when pressed. The headlights of police car was closing on me until they hit the lights so they were going faster then I was if that is how they record it.

Following advice and after getting measurements of the road I was on there are also a couple of points in their manual I may be able to argue. I've sent the an appeal letter, see where that goes first.