Does it get any worse???

[88GreenVN]

in this day and age the world WORLD brands will eventually take over .Who really cares what they are called ?????

That may be the case - but I dont want to upgrade the modern VZ I have with a FWD "yanky chev"

Note - I dont own anything ipod/pad/tablet/computer/ring tone/applepad/apple pod - infact I have i-nothing - so probably stuck in the dark ages and a RWD Commodore fits my requirements for now. And in saying that my opinion aint worth shit.

[Calaber]

Thats because a RWD car was available - how many VE's have sold - lots of them. Take this away and wack a chev badge on it and you will see people make other choices - the "Holden" company will deminish for sure. With the FWD market share getting bigger every year and people down sizing the car they drive the RWD Holden has a limited life span - sadly so I think.

They are building small cars better all the time space wise - the 1985 Carona for example I could not get into as my legs were too long to get under the steering wheel. Now days the small car is like a tardis and much roomier inside.

I believe Holden and Ford to some extent have large market share in Australia because 1. perceved as Australian made, 2. we like large cars for tallish people, 3. not every one likes a 4x4 barge to travel in, 4. hoons like RWD cars to rip up the streets with.

So make them all FWD and they are up against every other car maker in the world doing the same thing - they will slowly dissapear over time as a manufaturer.

Giving up the RWD aspect will be killing off there best point of difference to the rest of the market - and I believe it's the only reason it has not happened yet.

Shane

You, and MOST of the members of this forum, are not Dan Average. For the most part, we have an intense interest in cars, and because of the nature of this forum, Holdens in particular. Of course we are going to be defensive of the make. I can't imagine a motoring environment where the name Holden no longer appeared on new cars.

But your points in support of retaining the RWD format are not sufficient reason for doing so. Economics will ultimately rule future marketing and engineering decisions. Taking your points in order - 1. The name Holden will remain strong on our market. But whether Holdens are Australian designed, rather than just being made or assembled here is another matter. 2. Their traditional size is no longer seen as being important because of the clever design of so many medium sized cars, with interior space equal to Commodores and Falcons. 3. I personally agree with you about 4WD's - I hate the bloody things, because so many ########s who buy them can'ty drive them and they are unnecessary in urban environments. (I was being a trifle fascetious with my earlier post on that score) 4. As for the hoon element, well, Holdens last for a very long time, so there will always be old Commdores for them to buy and thrash.

I am sure that the next new Holden chassis (ie the one following the VF) will be the last RWD one. Our market is simply too small to continue designing specific cars for it.

[2DIE]

From the website on OP's post:

"A number of Chevrolet models are rebadged as Holdens for the Australian market, including the Captiva SUV and Cruze small car."

I was 100% sure the new Cruze was Australian designed and Australian made, even the government gave them $6.25 billion to

I was even pretty sure the older ones were a joint effort with Holden and Daewoo.

That website claims that we "Rebadge" them when in fact we designed and made them first..

Doing a little research on wiki...

2001–2008 Cruze - Suzuki

2008/9-2011 Cruze - Holden/GM Daewoo

2011 Cruze - Holden

Random info.

Despite the Chevrolet branding, the YGM1, like the production car, was the work of GM's Australian arm, Holden.[5][6] Along with the styling, Holden also executed most of the engineering work and were responsible for devising the "Cruze" nameplate.[1]

Underpinned by the front-wheel drive GM Delta II platform, GM has confirmed the Cruze development program occurred under a global design and engineering team.[22] Most of the design work was conducted by GM Daewoo (now GM Korea)

A five-door Cruze hatchback was unveiled at the 2010 Paris Motor Show on October 1, 2010. The Cruze hatchback is currently slated to be released for Europe in mid-2011.[27][28] Holden in Australia were responsible for the design and development of the hatchback body variant.[29]

So mostly made and designed by Daewoo when Holden was in charge before GM decided to take Daewoo from them. They claim its a Chev and we rebadge it?

Ignorant Americans.

[Dr HaxZaw]

lol family cars usually are used for towing so maybe someone should show this video to chev

YouTube - Car Fail

[Drawnnite]

america is always stealing our good cars. arent they taking our maloo and chev badging it as an el camino?
maybe we should go over there and take all holden badges, and rebadge their cars.
also when it comes to car names, im sure i read somewhere its for audience targetting
and i wouldnt mind the real chevys coming to aus, might be able to get a camaro at a half reasonable price.

personally a large FWD car does not seem appealling, whereas a small one doesnt bother me.
if they had the base model as a FWD and an option to have it RWD, i wouldnt have a problem as i could as a car fanatic get what i would prefer.

[JMP]

Forgive me for not being up with everything but what do car makers gain from building front wheel drive cars to rear wheel ones, is there some sort of benefit from it. I would have thought the set up of a rear wheel drive car would make it easier to engineer as you have more room under the bonnet to fit everything without a trans sitting in there. I can see it might be faster to build by a few minutes as the front end would house everything but that's about it and the drive train being installed in 1 hit but other than that ?

[Calaber]

Forgive me for not being up with everything but what do car makers gain from building front wheel drive cars to rear wheel ones, is there some sort of benefit from it. I would have thought the set up of a rear wheel drive car would make it easier to engineer as you have more room under the bonnet to fit everything without a trans sitting in there. I can see it might be faster to build by a few minutes as the front end would house everything but that's about it and the drive train being installed in 1 hit but other than that ?

Cars are cheaper to build as FWD and more space efficient.

The cheapness arises from not having to fit separate RWD components like prop shafts and separate differentials. All these components are smaller and packed into the front of the car.
The compactness of FWD means that they can also be built lighter which enhances fuel economy. Leaving out RWD components also helps to reduce weight.
Not having to build the cars with transmission humps and drive shaft tunnels assists with interior space.

The fact that they can be bastards to work on really doesn't count for much.

[Stressball]

The fact that they can be bastards to work on really doesn't count for much.

Until you find out that it's a 7 hour job to change a waterpump and you get charged a million bucks to have it changed

[Calaber]

Until you find out that it's a 7 hour job to change a waterpump and you get charged a million bucks to have it changed

Yeah, that's my point. It might be cheaper for the manufacturer to build cars the way they do, but they don't have to fix them, so they don't care how much trouble or cost you have to go to.

[Full Spectrum]

If they want a global weapon make all cars carry the GM badge.

[Full Spectrum]

Cars are cheaper to build as FWD and more space efficient.

The cheapness arises from not having to fit separate RWD components like prop shafts and separate differentials. All these components are smaller and packed into the front of the car.
The compactness of FWD means that they can also be built lighter which enhances fuel economy. Leaving out RWD components also helps to reduce weight.
Not having to build the cars with transmission humps and drive shaft tunnels assists with interior space.

The fact that they can be bastards to work on really doesn't count for much.

Unless it's the mondeo which is a lard arse.

[JMP]

I can understand with the rear driveline not being there it would make it cheaper but the front end would obviously be dearer. The floor pan I wouldn't have thought would make a lot of diff as it's all pressed anyway but trying to fit a V6 in a front wheel drive with trans I would think would be a nightmare considering if you had to put all the usual electronic gizmos in there also. I would also have thought putting a motor in V configuration into a front wheel drive car would drive servicing prices through the roof, so when you try to sell a car to a customer and they find out how much more expensive servicing would be they would be likely to head towards the rear wheel drive car. I think 1 of the best selling points that Holden and Ford had over other brands is how easy they are to work on.

[Dr HaxZaw]

As long as Holden keeps making V8's in the commodore it will stay rear wheel drive... it would be too costly to setup up manufacturing for fwd V6's and rear wheel drive V8's. Unless they want to make a fwd v8 but i can already imagine the epic understeer that would be involved lol

[monkeys437]

in this day and age the world WORLD brands will eventually take over .Who really cares what they are called ?????

To an extent I agree which is why i get frustrated that any GM car with South Korean manufacturing is called a Rebadged daewoo by people with no Idea. Take the cruze for example. European engineering and global engine and chassis platforms and people only focus on the country where the bits a bolted together.

There is a lot to be said for global platforms car and engine platforms but I think its important to have local engineering, styling and branding input for local markets which can make a business case to do so. Thats why I the Holden/GM relationship works so well for the commodore and I hope it continues as is for many years to come