Does it get any worse???

[Dr HaxZaw]

Change Holden to Chevrolet, says US website

So now americans are deciding what we should do... Wish i was a billionaire i'd just buy the holden brand off them lol

[Full Spectrum]

What a bunch of floggers, how is the holden badge hurting GM when holden usually is the only profitable part of GM .. like changing the badge from the lion to the bow tie will make corvette sub 100k. and how stupid is the person that wrote that piece. the cruze barina and captiva are damnedwood cars, not chev.

[Darren_L]

well at least the Chev badge on Holden brigade would be happy....

[walesy]

what would be the difference if they did? every moron loves to put chev badges on their car anyway

[TrikkBen]

Americans will always try to tell people what to do.

[Reaper]

Change Holden to Chevrolet, says US website

So now americans are deciding what we should do... Wish i was a billionaire i'd just buy the holden brand off them lol

Americans have had final say over Holden since 1948 (actually well before then) so there is nothing new there. As for the Chevrolet taking over the Holden brand in Australia, It's not going to happen. The website in question has no ties with GM.

What a bunch of floggers, how is the holden badge hurting GM when holden usually is the only profitable part of GM .. like changing the badge from the lion to the bow tie will make corvette sub 100k. and how stupid is the person that wrote that piece. the cruze barina and captiva are damnedwood cars, not chev.

Well Holden has lost money for 6 of the last 7 years (or there abouts). Some of that has been caused by GM screwing them over with regards to NA Zeta's granted. To say Holden is usually the only profitable part of GM is just wrong.

Reaper

[Dr HaxZaw]

Americans have had final say over Holden since 1948 (actually well before then)

thats probably the saddest thing about this... if that wasnt the case we wouldnt have chev badges on them today lol

[walesy]

thats probably the saddest thing about this... if that wasnt the case we wouldnt have chev badges on them today lol

we would proberly also have no V8 models, they were getting rid of the V8 holden in 98 anyway, the GM ls1 came to the rescue so we could still have v8 holdens to keep up with emmision laws

[Pickle']

lol turns out we'll be the wankers with rebadged 'holder' badges and not the other way around

[Reaper]

we would proberly also have no V8 models, they were getting rid of the V8 holden in 98 anyway, the GM ls1 came to the rescue so we could still have v8 holdens to keep up with emmision laws

The good old "Holden V8" was actually a shifty pulled by the engine plant in the late 60's. It nearly didn't happen at all. Everything was done on the quiet as you could do to some extent back then. It was quite light, compact and advanced compared to the Chev and Ford V8's of the day with alloy timing case and intake manifolds. Many of the European V8's were starting with DOHC and the like however they were anything but reliable. There was a DOHC Holden prototype done at some stage but with low projected volumes the idea didn't get very far. Fast forward till the late 90's and it had run it's race. To re-engineer the motor for new emissions standards when GM powertrain had some excellent units available virtually straight off the shelf just didn't make sense.

Reaper

[88GreenVN]

Change Holden to Chevrolet, says US website

So now americans are deciding what we should do... Wish i was a billionaire i'd just buy the holden brand off them lol

This IMO would kill Holden sales dead in it's tracks as would a FWD Commodore

Question - how many people still think of the base model VE as a Commodore? It is an Omega tho - Yes?

[Reaper]

This IMO would kill Holden sales dead in it's tracks as would a FWD Commodore

Or a FWD Falcon??? hmmmm..... This article should get no more importance than any random editorial in a newspaper or magazine.

Question - how many people still think of the base model VE as a Commodore? It is an Omega tho - Yes?

I think of it as horrid myself.

Reaper

[Cameron P]

most base models are horrid though..

[STEEV888]

Although I am strongly against the convert to Chev, Sonic is a better name than Barina imo.

[monkeys437]

A marketing chick from Holden told me that Holden has the equal highest brand recognition of any brand in australia in terms of people recognizing the brand and knowing what they do. No way known would Holden let that go and especially with Mark Reuss running the show in the states, GM wouldnt ask them to

[Calaber]

Typical ignorant Yank attitude. "What's good for America is good for the world."

[minux]

I have to ask, why are so many people against a FWD variant of an omega etc? I am fairly sure the majority of low end buys have no idea what is driving their v6 along and nor do they care. I just fail to see what the big hoo haa is. With FWD inevitably comes an AWD system, a AWD system that works as well as subaru's on an SS would be magic.

[88GreenVN]

I have to ask, why are so many people against a FWD variant of an omega etc? I am fairly sure the majority of low end buys have no idea what is driving their v6 along and nor do they care. I just fail to see what the big hoo haa is. With FWD inevitably comes an AWD system, a AWD system that works as well as subaru's on an SS would be magic.

Most people that have no idea what is driving their v6 and dont care about it would'nt log onto a forum like this and so wont see the thread on it.

As for why I dont like FWD only car is I simply hate the way they drive.

A 4x4 subaroo is totally different creature and is not in the discussion at all. I was driving 4x4 subies on pipeline tracks out bush when you were a nipper (and loved it as they were 100 and 50 million times better then the clapped out Landrovers)

A Chev FWD at the dimise of the Holden will fail in Australia. As said above if Holden is the second most recognised brand in Aussie-land it would be commercial suicide to change the branding. Make it FWD and they may as well burn down the factory.

[minux]

Most people that have no idea what is driving their v6 and dont care about it would'nt log onto a forum like this and so wont see the thread on it.

Huh, what the heck does that have to do anything?

As for why I dont like FWD only car is I simply hate the way they drive.

So if they went front wheel drive you can stick with the older models, you own older models now (going by your rides mentioned int he past etc) so I doubt any changes in the new lineup would hurt.

A 4x4 subaroo is totally different creature and is not in the discussion at all. I was driving 4x4 subies on pipeline tracks out bush when you were a nipper (and loved it as they were 100 and 50 million times better then the clapped out Landrovers)

When I was a nipper? Didnt subaru only get released in AU end of 89? I was hardly a "nipper" lol. I mentioned subaru simply because if an AWD system like theirs was matched to an SS it would be magic. Or did you decide you would miss that point?

A Chev FWD at the dimise of the Holden will fail in Australia. As said above if Holden is the second most recognised brand in Aussie-land it would be commercial suicide to change the branding. Make it FWD and they may as well burn down the factory.

The brand isn't recognised because of RWD or FWD lol, it is recognised because of branding, hence BRAND RECOGNITION. The people holden target do not give a toss if it is FWD, RWD or some other drive, people buy them based on a branding. All this said, I am pretty sure I did not mention branding, I did however mention fwd and why all the hoo haa and AWD system in a Holden much like Subaru's system would be brilliant.

[88GreenVN]

Huh, what the heck does that have to do anything?



So if they went front wheel drive you can stick with the older models, you own older models now (going by your rides mentioned int he past etc) so I doubt any changes in the new lineup would hurt.



When I was a nipper? Didnt subaru only get released in AU end of 89? I was hardly a "nipper" lol. I mentioned subaru simply because if an AWD system like theirs was matched to an SS it would be magic. Or did you decide you would miss that point?



The brand isn't recognised because of RWD or FWD lol, it is recognised because of branding, hence BRAND RECOGNITION. The people holden target do not give a toss if it is FWD, RWD or some other drive, people buy them based on a branding. All this said, I am pretty sure I did not mention branding, I did however mention fwd and why all the hoo haa and AWD system in a Holden much like Subaru's system would be brilliant.

Dunno - was bord as hell reading and felt like wasting some time lol

[Calaber]

Didnt subaru only get released in AU end of 89?

Nup, much earlier. They had simply horrid looking FWD Leone's in the early 80's, though they weren't called that name in Aus. A mate purchased one after trading in his LJ GTR in 1984 and I travelled with him from Sydney to Adelaide and back. Very economical but it was like an early Hyundai - bloody ugly and cheap and nasty. Also like Hyundai, they've come a long way since.

Have to agree with you about FWD. Holden has successfully marketed FWD "Holdens" since the JB Camira in 1982 (OK, so the Camira wasn't a great car, but the fact it was an FWD didn't kill it off - it was deplorable build quality that did that). Since the Camira, there has been the Apollo and Nova courtesy of Toyota, Astra's courtesy of Nissan and Opel, Barina's courtesy of Suzuki, Opel and Daewoo, Epica, Cruze, etc etc. All FWD. Haven't noticed anybody bitching about which wheels drove it, because Dan Average doesn't know and doesn't care. The Cruze is proving highly successful, so what's the big deal with FWD?

Enthusiasts moan that RWD or AWD are the only way to go for serious performance cars but the Euro's have been proving for years that a good/brilliant FWD chassis is quite achievable, in moderately priced cars. Can't tow with FWD? True, but many people don't worry about that either. If RWD ceases to be available, there will always be the option of an SUV or 4WD.

[Full Spectrum]

Americans have had final say over Holden since 1948 (actually well before then) so there is nothing new there. As for the Chevrolet taking over the Holden brand in Australia, It's not going to happen. The website in question has no ties with GM.



Well Holden has lost money for 6 of the last 7 years (or there abouts). Some of that has been caused by GM screwing them over with regards to NA Zeta's granted. To say Holden is usually the only profitable part of GM is just wrong.

Reaper

you dwell on the very forum that knows the ins and outs of holdens real debt. So you should know better as I dont see another gm product in the black, and thats without gm making withdrawals. It's more than the zeta program that made holden losses. Some had nothing to so with their handling of the company..
Note the usually part. Holden USUALLY. Even in the gfc holden was arguably gm's strongest arm.

[monkeys437]

I have to ask, why are so many people against a FWD variant of an omega etc? I am fairly sure the majority of low end buys have no idea what is driving their v6 along and nor do they care.

I cant speak for the majority of the population, but personally I prefer the way RWD drives especially in large cars. As such, I would be extremely disappointed if the commodore went FWD

[88GreenVN]

Nup, much earlier. They had simply horrid looking FWD Leone's in the early 80's, though they weren't called that name in Aus. A mate purchased one after trading in his LJ GTR in 1984 and I travelled with him from Sydney to Adelaide and back. Very economical but it was like an early Hyundai - bloody ugly and cheap and nasty. Also like Hyundai, they've come a long way since.

Have to agree with you about FWD. Holden has successfully marketed FWD "Holdens" since the JB Camira in 1982 (OK, so the Camira wasn't a great car, but the fact it was an FWD didn't kill it off - it was deplorable build quality that did that). Since the Camira, there has been the Apollo and Nova courtesy of Toyota, Astra's courtesy of Nissan and Opel, Barina's courtesy of Suzuki, Opel and Daewoo, Epica, Cruze, etc etc. All FWD. Haven't noticed anybody bitching about which wheels drove it, because Dan Average doesn't know and doesn't care. The Cruze is proving highly successful, so what's the big deal with FWD?

Enthusiasts moan that RWD or AWD are the only way to go for serious performance cars but the Euro's have been proving for years that a good/brilliant FWD chassis is quite achievable, in moderately priced cars. Can't tow with FWD? True, but many people don't worry about that either. If RWD ceases to be available, there will always be the option of an SUV or 4WD.

Thats because a RWD car was available - how many VE's have sold - lots of them. Take this away and wack a chev badge on it and you will see people make other choices - the "Holden" company will deminish for sure. With the FWD market share getting bigger every year and people down sizing the car they drive the RWD Holden has a limited life span - sadly so I think.

They are building small cars better all the time space wise - the 1985 Carona for example I could not get into as my legs were too long to get under the steering wheel. Now days the small car is like a tardis and much roomier inside.

I believe Holden and Ford to some extent have large market share in Australia because 1. perceved as Australian made, 2. we like large cars for tallish people, 3. not every one likes a 4x4 barge to travel in, 4. hoons like RWD cars to rip up the streets with.

So make them all FWD and they are up against every other car maker in the world doing the same thing - they will slowly dissapear over time as a manufaturer.

Giving up the RWD aspect will be killing off there best point of difference to the rest of the market - and I believe it's the only reason it has not happened yet.

[doms1]

in this day and age the world WORLD brands will eventually take over .Who really cares what they are called ?????