respect?

[Crisis63]

In the light of the widely varying views of the current arrest of an Australian 14 year old in Bali over a trivial drug charge it will be interesting to see how far those in the “we must respect other countries laws” camp are willing to back that philosophy.

AN Iranian actress will be jailed for a year and lashed 90 times for starring in a South Australian film production about the Western influence on life in the Islamic republic.
Actress Marzieh Vafamehr was the main character of the 2009 feature film My Tehran for Sale.
The film was jointly funded by the South Australian Film Corporation and the Adelaide Film Festival.
She was arrested in June after black market copies of the film began circulating in Tehran, showing Vafamehr in some scenes without an Islamic hijab which covers the hair and neck.

"There is an appeal which could be lengthy and the family may still believe that public comment will be unhelpful because they are going through all the official channels," she said.
"We can say the charges were that there was no permit for filming, which is not true, and that in some scenes Marzieh was not wearing a hijab and had a shaved head."

Family First MLC Dennis Hood said he would contact Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd today urging the Federal Government to offer assistance to the family.

Interestingly ( disturbingly) the poll shows, at the time I looked, 382 people who thought that a religious based, barbaric law took precedence over reason.

Is the punishment barbaric?
• Yes - it's unacceptable 92.04% (4417 votes)
• No - we must respect Iran's laws 7.96% (382 votes)

[minux]

Crisis, while the law(lashings) may be barbaric, they are the known laws and you breach them at your own will.

I do not like our speeding laws, I breach them often at my own will knowing full well my punishment if I am caught. Regardless of the law it is the same action/reaction.

This woman for whatever reason went against her countries laws knowing full well what may happen to her.

As for the 382 for votes, my guess is all Islamic voters?

[monkeys437]

Very good point Crisis. I'd suspect those "respect other countries law" brigade aren't so respectful of Irans right to give a women 90 lashes for taking her hijab off for the camera.
I think it's extremely barbaric and cant believe this sh*t still goes on in the world.

[some_guy]

I'm unsure as to where I sit on this issue.

Although I do find it barbarric and unneccessary, it is the law that they choose to enforce in their country.

If I were to travel there though I would definitely be respecting their law, so as not to break it and receive a similar punishment.

[W84N01]

I have to agree with Minux on this one.

Even thou it's barbaric (only to us mind you as we don't have it here, as it's normal law over there and all their citizens know this), it's their law and as the old saying goes "whilst in Rome...".

You live in your Country and live by your rules and regs, you break them you will be punished.

Other Countries are the same. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make a world of difference. Just don't go there. They still have public stonings i think i heard in Jeruselum somewhere?? Before going anywhere on holidays, find out about their rules and the law for that Country, and remember, if you go from Oz to Thailand (or anywhere) where drugs are legal, you still have to come back home to Oz and you will get done by D&A testing here and kicked off the job (if your job requires D&A) if you blow over. Doesn't matter where you go, you still have to abide by all rules and Law.

As for the 14yr old drug mule......after the hype about Chapelle and the Bali 9.....how dumb do you seriously have to be to keep on trying??

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

I agree also. Who are we to try and force our values and beliefs on others?

I would also punish the film makers in this regard as they knowingly conspired with an Iranian citizen to make her (whether it was voluntary on her part or not) to break her country's laws. If they hadn't have asked her then there would be a more than reasonable chance she wouldn't have done it.

As for the 14 year old, was he living in total media and social exclusion not to know about Indonesia's harsh drug penalties?

[ToMMMaY]

All this talk about living in there country live by there rules
What about Australia...
They dont follow our rules
everything is getting banned and changed for the muslims.

Dont act like you cant see it happening because it is right infront of our faces...

[W84N01]

All this talk about living in there country live by there rules
What about Australia...
They dont follow our rules
everything is getting banned and changed for the muslims.

Dont act like you cant see it happening because it is right infront of our faces...

That is exactly right, but that is not my or your fault. that blame lies heavily on out lack of Government balls. Our Govt makes Australia what it is today, their Govt makes their Country what it is today. If our "leaders" choose to be spinless and gutless, then we have to live by what they decide......otherwise we will be punished for breaking "our rules".

[F l a k]

All this talk about living in there country live by there rules
What about Australia...
They dont follow our rules
everything is getting banned and changed for the muslims.

That's a good point, I was going to bring it up. People from other countries come here and that is fine, but often they secularise into their own cultural groups and fight for the right to continue with their country of origions practices and belief systems. Which again, is ok. But it's when those beleifs and practices directly conflict with ours that is where the line should be drawn and they need to be shown that they must respect our beliefs and practices, and that whilst they are most welcome here they may not continue to oppose, change and conflict with out way of life. We should be tolerant of each other, but not continue to be push overs and make it clear that they are the guests in our country and we hold our beliefs and way of life quite strongly. I think once they realise that we will all get along better as there (in theory, look at tribes and in nature, for example) there shouldn't be conflict as we all know the boundaries and who is the guest.

[Rufys]

Very good point Crisis. I'd suspect those "respect other countries law" brigade aren't so respectful of Irans right to give a women 90 lashes for taking her hijab off for the camera.
I think it's extremely barbaric and cant believe this sh*t still goes on in the world.

Wrong! Do the crime, do the time (or take the punishment). They're not our laws!!! Jesus!!! This is why America is hated so much - trying to force THEIR society onto these other societies simply because they don't agree with them.

Barbaric to us? Maybe... To them? Nope - reasonable punishment.

[DAKSTER]

I dont know why so many people think our laws are the only ones that should apply in the world. The punishment is barbaric, unreasonable and unnecessary.. but its not our country, not our laws.

Are we in a position to become the world police, as the US is attempting to do? No. Let the US be the police, start all the wars etc, and take their own twisted moral standpoint. We, as small fish in a big pond, need to learn to start hiding behind rocks and minding our own business (unless our big friends are around so we can come out and play occasionally).

Seriously people, I feel for the woman, and its an unfair punishment, but WTF can we do about it? Its not our country, not our laws, and there is nothing we can do about it when it comes down to it, unless we want to occupy Iran??? How many times does a government approach us and demand we treat their citizens differently than our own?

Correct me if I am wrong but I cant remember a single time, not one, when another government has attempted to interfere in our legal system. How arrogant of us to think we can do it to another country.

The bottom line is, the law in many countries is much, much harder than ours. Even the possession of alcohol, permitted and condoned in western countries despite the trail of carnage it leaves behind, can have dire consequences in a country like Iran. If you dont want to abide by the law, then dont go to the country, simple as that.

The woman, horrible though the punishment is, and as insignificant as the crime appears to us, is an Iranian citizen breaking an Iranian law, and she knew it. I deplore the existence of the law, and the severity of the punishment, but its the law in her country...

She can now join the ranks of the millions of offenders around the world who are punished for no other reason than religion or politics, and hope that her small gesture contributes to an eventual change, the same as other so called 'radicals' have been doing for thousands of years. I respect her decision to buck the system, and its a shame the price is so high, but she knew the consequences.

Snap out of it people. Some of the things we have discussed in recent times, like this woman and the 14 year old kid, are quite shocking to us as a society, but we are minnows in this big pond, and we dont get to decide on what laws apply in other countries.

I wonder how many Australian potheads have gone to Amsterdam to take advantage of their lenient drug laws? Does that mean the Dutch have reciprocal rights and can apply those laws to themselves over here? Or does it mean the law is different here, so they cant?

When in Rome....

[Rufys]

All this talk about living in there country live by there rules
What about Australia...
They dont follow our rules
everything is getting banned and changed for the muslims.

Dont act like you cant see it happening because it is right infront of our faces...

That's ONLY because of the piss weak governments and all the bleeding heart liberals. (no liberals are NOT the Liberal party) The bleeding heart liberals are the ALP and its voter base.

[some_guy]

I think we all mostly agree.

Follow the laws of the country you are in.

I too however get frustrated that this respect isn't reciprocated by some other foreigners here in Australia. Love it or leave it.

[Crisis63]

The film was made in Australia under our laws.
If we went to a country and broke an Australian law there, would we get punished for it when we got back here.

Crisis, while the law(lashings) may be barbaric, they are the known laws and you breach them at your own will.

I do not like our speeding laws, I breach them often at my own will knowing full well my punishment if I am caught. Regardless of the law it is the same action/reaction.

There is no question as to what will happen if you break laws. Laws change because people change them. The mere fact that they change supports the premise that a law is a transitory fad that requires little rationality, fairness or logic to exist.
This is about whether a person deserves the particular treatment one of these laws dictates just because they knew about it. I think everyone deserves to be treated fairly.

Even thou it's barbaric (only to us mind you as we don't have it here, as it's normal law over there and all their citizens know this)

Pretty sure they all don’t like it. And pretty sure they have no way of doing anything about it. Unless they hop on a boat to escape to a country who will take them.

it's their law and as the old saying goes "whilst in Rome...".

And whilst in Iraq, or Afghanistan or Nazi Germany…..

As I have stated in another post we have gone to war, invaded and removed governments because our leaders, at the time, decided the regimes and laws were beyond “our” capacity to tolerate.

[Jesterarts]

Very good point Crisis. I'd suspect those "respect other countries law" brigade aren't so respectful of Irans right to give a women 90 lashes for taking her hijab off for the camera.
I think it's extremely barbaric and cant believe this sh*t still goes on in the world.

I suspect that I am part of the "brigade" above and while once again, I do not agree with the laws in that country, that's the laws so they need to be adibed by when in that country.

I live in Australia because the laws and beliefs hear are acceptable in my opinion. And although I don't agree with some, I still a abide by them. For example, it is illegal to go over 100kmph on certain roads. I thing this is completely retarded since the roads are safe at speeds much higher but I still adibe by it. And even though the punishment for breaking this law is laughable, I lose some theoretical "points" and a few bucks, I still don't break this law because I don't want to be punished.

If I went to a country where a certain offence was punishable by lashing, I would ensure I did everything in my power not to break that law.

I'm really failing to see the issue here. Yes the laws in some countries are not acceptable by our standards but at the end of the day, they are THEIR the laws.

Don't break 'em

[Jesterarts]

The film was made in Australia under our laws.

I suggest you do a little more reading.

The film was shot in Tehran and the footage was brought back to Australia for post production.

So the laws where broken in Iran.

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

The film was made in Australia under our laws.
If we went to a country and broke an Australian law there, would we get punished for it when we got back here.

It didn't come to light until the film turned up in Iran, as soon as that happened, then yes, she broke her country's law.

Just like the Thai guy who lived in the US and posted anti Thai statements on his blog while living in the US. He was holidaying in Thailand and was arrested and charged under their laws. He faces something like 6 years in prison.

I would say that if we went to Iran and burnt an Australian flag, then yes, we would probably get charged with that crime upon return to Australia.

*edit* The film was shot in Tehran and the footage was brought back to Australia for post production.
Missed that bit too....

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

I lose some theoretical "points" and a few bucks

Technically you get points, you don't lose them.....sorry....bit off topic.

[some_guy]

I suspect that I am part of the "brigade" above and while once again, I do not agree with the laws in that country, that's the laws so they need to be adibed by when in that country.

I live in Australia because the laws and beliefs hear are acceptable in my opinion. And although I don't agree with some, I still a abide by them. For example, it is illegal to go over 100kmph on certain roads. I thing this is completely retarded since the roads are safe at speeds much higher but I still adibe by it. And even though the punishment for breaking this law is laughable, I lose some theoretical "points" and a few bucks, I still don't break this law because I don't want to be punished.

If I went to a country where a certain offence was punishable by lashing, I would ensure I did everything in my power not to break that law.

I'm really failing to see the issue here. Yes the laws in some countries are not acceptable by our standards but at the end of the day, they are THEIR the laws.

Don't break 'em

Well said. We live here for a reason. Because we, for want of a better word "morally" approve of australias laws.

[Crisis63]

Wrong! Do the crime, do the time (or take the punishment). They're not our laws!!! Jesus!!! This is why America is hated so much - trying to force THEIR society onto these other societies simply because they don't agree with them.

Barbaric to us? Maybe... To them? Nope - reasonable punishment.

How do you feel about our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan?

[ToMMMaY]

How about this
Muslim pool outrage

Only a start to what is coming

[Rufys]

How do you feel about our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan?

News to me! And I was in the forces... When did this happen???

[Crisis63]

All this talk about living in there country live by there rules
What about Australia...
They dont follow our rules
everything is getting banned and changed for the muslims.

Dont act like you cant see it happening because it is right infront of our faces...

What is happening is that we are trying to be non secular. That is no a society where one religion dominates.

[Crisis63]

I suggest you do a little more reading.

The film was shot in Tehran and the footage was brought back to Australia for post production.

So the laws where broken in Iran.

Fair enough. Not fair, but I take that point.

[Rufys]

What is happening is that we are trying to be non secular. That is no a society where one religion dominates.

And in Australia, built on CHRISTIANITY, that is wrong.