Was it 149km/h or 76km/h ?

[Shorty33]

It's annoying when you can't rely on the things you've been taught to rely on:

Was it 149km/h or 76km/h? Biker's barrister father wins $60,000 battle to beat speed charge

[MikeCuzzy]

I did see this article, I guess we sort of expect police to know how to use a LIDAR, but it's technology and they are people and as such - not perfect.

You'd think that even just watching the car and be able to tell the difference between 149kph and 76kph, I know I could, aren't the police supposed to expert witnesses when it comes to speeding vehicles?

[amos_executive]

I did see this article, I guess we sort of expect police to know how to use a LIDAR, but it's technology and they are people and as such - not perfect.

You'd think that even just watching the car and be able to tell the difference between 149kph and 76kph, I know I could, aren't the police supposed to expert witnesses when it comes to speeding vehicles?

eh not much cops can do unless its helping yourself then we appreciate them, and apparently only highway patrol are trained to be able to use their 'visual estimate' as a means to charge someone

[MikeCuzzy]

eh not much cops can do unless its helping yourself then we appreciate them, and apparently only highway patrol are trained to be able to use their 'visual estimate' as a means to charge someone

Oh don't get me wrong, takes a lot to be a copper and 95% of them are some of the best people we have in Australia. But as with any profession, there are some that aren't to that standard. I find it hard to believe that if this guy was doing 76kph, the copper truly thought he was doing 149kph.

[ClairBear]

Truth lies somewhere between 79 and 149 me thinks.

[Rufys]

Why are they using lidar equipment (inappropriately I might add) if the Police car had a mounted radar unit that was in operation and recording the speed accurately?

Using lidar isn't rocket science. I've used it at race tracks. Out of the box they come with very basic instructions. I also find it exceedingly hard to believe that a Police Office in charge of checking speeds can't make a distinction between 76kph and 149kph!!! Was he on drugs? Or just stupid/ignorant?

I also loved the part where he says "there's a video and this (holding the microphone up) is a microphone and this is being recorded" then lowers the microphone out of range! LOL

dem be some smaaaaarrt coppers

[Banicks]

He was still speeding though, he was doing 76km/h in a 60km/h zone. Was that thrown out as well?

What does 16km/h over the limit get you? (points wise, fine etc)

Surely this opens up the flood gates for LIDAR appeals.

[MikeCuzzy]

69kph over would see him without a license for at least 6 months.

16kph is 3 points and $216 fine.

EDIT: just saw this article on SMH,

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/lidar-does...027-1mljg.html

[monkeys437]

He was still speeding though, he was doing 76km/h in a 60km/h zone. Was that thrown out as well?

What does 16km/h over the limit get you? (points wise, fine etc)

Surely this opens up the flood gates for LIDAR appeals.

Was he speeding though? To me if two detection devices are supposed to be accurate to each other within a tolerance, one detects at 76km/h and the other 149km/h, the only reasonable conclusion is that neither reading can be deemed reliable.

[MikeCuzzy]

Was he speeding though? To me if two detection devices are supposed to be accurate to each other within a tolerance, one detects at 76km/h and the other 149km/h, the only reasonable conclusion is that neither reading can be deemed reliable.

They are both different technologies with different problems on occasion, they can't really be compared. Radar would probably be taken as the more reliable reading.

[DevilDRake]

I'm not too sure on this, but he wouldn't spend that much to prove himself it if wasn't true.

People don't forget, a gsxr1000 can hit from 0-150 in like 4-5 seconds, and it stops just as quick, he could of just smacked the brake for a second and dropped the 60ks lol.

[acarmody]

They are both different technologies with different problems on occasion, they can't really be compared. Radar would probably be taken as the more reliable reading.

No way, LIDAR is definately a more reliable and accurate device.

In this case I think there is human error, or what DevilDRake says

[minux]

I guess the story shows that if you spend enough money you can get off almost anything. My bet is, it cost him nothing near what they are claiming but a good boost from the NSWPF.

[pjdm1980]

Yer I'm sure his dad was going to charge him the $40000 no matter what the outcome!!!
But it would be nice to have the finances and time to fight the law when you know they're wrong.

[hi_ryder]

wait what? his dad spent 8 days in court at $3500 a day? looks like they sent vic police an even bigger ticket....

[minux]

Yer I'm sure his dad was going to charge him the $40000 no matter what the outcome!!!
But it would be nice to have the finances and time to fight the law when you know they're wrong.

I seriously cannot believe this is a case of equipment being wrong.

I mean, police are not stupid, they can tell the difference between 75 odd and 150 odd. In fact anyone can. The fact from what I read the officer was outside the car in a standing position when the reading was taken says to me the rider was probably going faster. However, the judge found this not to be correct so we have to believe the police officer was wrong...which I find very hard.

I challenge anyone to say they cannot see a speed difference of cars standing in a 60 zone and standing in a 100 zone lol.

[Reaper]

I guess the story shows that if you spend enough money you can get off almost anything. My bet is, it cost him nothing near what they are claiming but a good boost from the NSWPF.

I'm sure his father would not have charged him for his time had he have lost however costs etc are capped to some degree by the court system using various rates etc depending on the matter and time/services involved. Such a bill could easily have been racked up. The thing that annoys me is that John Q. Average would rarely if ever have the means to fight such a thing if they were innocent - take the old lady in the 120Y a few years ago on the Western ring road for example. She only was successful as her car could not get anywhere near the speed alleged and the cameras were found to be defective. Swap that car for yours or mine - what hope would we have???

Reaper

[Decicrate]

Yeah, equipment being used incorrectly never gives a false or incorrect reading.

There are rules in place for the use of the LIDAR system for a reason, as there are for ALL radar or speed detection devices. If the Police can't follow the rules of operation then why should any speed registered be valid?

What I find amusing is this In June this year, Senior Constable Chaplin told Sutherland Local Court that he measured the stretch of road "hundreds of times" and it was 325 metres.

If he did measure it at all, how could you get the distance of 100 meters wrong????? Did the Police department buy their measuring tapes from some "seconds sale".

Yet when measured properly it was only 237 meters, with a straight of only 180meters.
Traveling at 150kph is 41.66 meters per second so the officer only had a maximum time of 4.32 seconds to get a correct lock.

If the Police are not using equipment correctly then they deserve what they got in this case.

[Rufys]

I seriously cannot believe this is a case of equipment being wrong.

I mean, police are not stupid, they can tell the difference between 75 odd and 150 odd. In fact anyone can. The fact from what I read the officer was outside the car in a standing position when the reading was taken says to me the rider was probably going faster. However, the judge found this not to be correct so we have to believe the police officer was wrong...which I find very hard.

I challenge anyone to say they cannot see a speed difference of cars standing in a 60 zone and standing in a 100 zone lol.

Did you read the story? The Lidar was being used INCORRECTLY based on the length of the straight stretch of road. At 149kph there would not be enough time to get an ACCURATE reading of 149kph.

But the Radar got a reading and they went with that... I'd say it was more accurate than the Lidar one based on the facts I've read.

[monkeys437]

The thing that annoys me is that John Q. Average would rarely if ever have the means to fight such a thing if they were innocent - take the old lady in the 120Y a few years ago on the Western ring road for example. She only was successful as her car could not get anywhere near the speed alleged and the cameras were found to be defective. Swap that car for yours or mine - what hope would we have???

Reaper

There was also the case where a copper turned up at someones house with a tow truck to impound their car after being picked up doing 150+km/h AVERAGE speed by the point to point cameras on the Geelong freeway. He turned up and found a young chick on her Red Ps in a mazda2 and figured there must be a mistake, the cameras were found to be detective. (then they switched them off for a while)

My issues is if he rocked up and it was a young guy in an SS commodore who had been wrongly detected at that speed, his car is leaving on the tow truck, license gone and there's nothing he can do unless you have $50 grand to got to court with

[Reaper]

There was also the case where a copper turned up at someones house with a tow truck to impound their car after being picked up doing 150+km/h AVERAGE speed by the point to point cameras on the Geelong freeway. He turned up and found a young chick on her Red Ps in a mazda2 and figured there must be a mistake, the cameras were found to be detective. (then they switched them off for a while)

My issues is if he rocked up and it was a young guy in an SS commodore who had been wrongly detected at that speed, his car is leaving on the tow truck, license gone and there's nothing he can do unless you have $50 grand to got to court with

Yeah - same thing really. Motorists are very much screwed when the technology screws up. In most cases there is simply no way to prove it until something like your and my earlier examples pop up. In the mean times god knows how many jobs/livelihoods could be ruined un-fairly.

Reaper

[MasterOfReality]

$60,000 would rack up pretty quick, as it said they engaged two experts.

Assuming they were acting in a consulting sense, 2 or 3 weeks work (investigation + report) by both of them would see that figure reached quite easily.

[Rufys]

If you read the article, the vast majority of that amount (around $40,000) is the fees for his Barrister father. Which I seriously doubt would have been billed but since costs have been awarded also is of no major concern.

[MasterOfReality]

Yeah ok.

Imagine of his old man demanded payment of the fees hehe.

[MikeCuzzy]

No way, LIDAR is definately a more reliable and accurate device.

In this case I think there is human error, or what DevilDRake says

You are correct good sir, I should have clarified, the officer was using LIDAR and it gave the high reading. The in car mounted RADAR gave the lower reading, they would likely take the RADAR as human error can be omitted as a factor.