Elderly man dies in scooter crash

[vn_v6]

if it doesnt have ####ing rego, it shouldnt be on the road! simple as that! if i drive my car unregistered im a tenth of the danger compared to an old fart or a cylcist on the road, but am i allowed to? no....so why do they have no rules? if you use the road you should pay just like everyone else. end of story.

[DAKSTER]

if it doesnt have ####ing rego, it shouldnt be on the road! simple as that! if i drive my car unregistered im a tenth of the danger compared to an old fart or a cylcist on the road, but am i allowed to? no....so why do they have no rules? if you use the road you should pay just like everyone else. end of story.

Whilst I think some cyclists are freaking idiots, and given that I am an old fart who happens to think he is a very safe driver on the road (and also happens to ride a mobility scooter sometimes, though only at home or in shopping centres), I have to challenge that you are any less dangerous.

The cyclist, although occasionally taking other people out by causing an accident, is the most likely person to suffer from his arrogance and stupidity. The old fart doing 5kmh on the far left of the road is actually no danger at all to you or anyone else but himself. You hit him, you need minor car repairs and he is dead.

If your car is unregistered then its very likely unroadworthy too. I'd say you were about 10 times more dangerous than either cyclist or old fart.

On the subject of rego, given the millions that are being spent on bike paths etc, perhaps an annual fee wouldnt be such a bad idea. Of course you would expect them to provide and maintain a useful network in return.. and then the cyclists wouldnt need a road to begin with. Added benefits would be the recording of chassis numbers etc to perhaps help with identification of stolen or misused bikes when they are registered, and of course personal injury insurance of some limited kind. Perhaps some education could be included in the deal.. a cycling license?

Of course, this would apply to city roads, not suburbia and a bunch of 8 year olds... though the education part is never a bad thing.

You can drive many kinds of vehicles off the road that only need rego if they are to drive on the road. Forklifts, tractors, you name it. I have no problem with requiring rego if I should need to take my gopher on the road. Frankly, I think it would fall apart on anything less smooth than a concrete bike path, and I prefer to drive my car anyway.

[vr94ss]

Whilst I think some cyclists are freaking idiots, and given that I am an old fart who happens to think he is a very safe driver on the road (and also happens to ride a mobility scooter sometimes, though only at home or in shopping centres), I have to challenge that you are any less dangerous.

The cyclist, although occasionally taking other people out by causing an accident, is the most likely person to suffer from his arrogance and stupidity. The old fart doing 5kmh on the far left of the road is actually no danger at all to you or anyone else but himself. You hit him, you need minor car repairs and he is dead.

If your car is unregistered then its very likely unroadworthy too. I'd say you were about 10 times more dangerous than either cyclist or old fart.

On the subject of rego, given the millions that are being spent on bike paths etc, perhaps an annual fee wouldnt be such a bad idea. Of course you would expect them to provide and maintain a useful network in return.. and then the cyclists wouldnt need a road to begin with. Added benefits would be the recording of chassis numbers etc to perhaps help with identification of stolen or misused bikes when they are registered, and of course personal injury insurance of some limited kind. Perhaps some education could be included in the deal.. a cycling license?

Of course, this would apply to city roads, not suburbia and a bunch of 8 year olds... though the education part is never a bad thing.

You can drive many kinds of vehicles off the road that only need rego if they are to drive on the road. Forklifts, tractors, you name it. I have no problem with requiring rego if I should need to take my gopher on the road. Frankly, I think it would fall apart on anything less smooth than a concrete bike path, and I prefer to drive my car anyway.

If you put as much thought and sense into driving as you do in your posts I think you'd be one of the few I'd gladly share the roads with.

[gopher]

if it doesnt have ####ing rego, it shouldnt be on the road! simple as that! if i drive my car unregistered im a tenth of the danger compared to an old fart or a cylcist on the road, but am i allowed to? no....so why do they have no rules? if you use the road you should pay just like everyone else. end of story.

in Qld a mobility scooter has to be registered
and whether it's a scooter or a bicycle they are still bound by all the same rules as every other vehicle on the road

[Darren_L]

I agree, they shouldnt be on the road.
However I disagree with the comment about cyclists. They can cause just as many problems, especially when they ride 2 or more side by side. If they belong on the road, they should be paying CTP and rego and have brake lights and indicators fitted. just my 2cents worth

and maybe pedestrians should also be paying rego and CTP, afterall they also use the roads.... As a motorist, I've had to take far more evasive maneuvers to avoid collecting suicidal pedestrians than cyclists

most adult cyclists also own cars so they do pay CTP and rego. I own 3 vehicles which I pay over $2000 a year in rego & CTP, I'd be lucky to do more than 5000km a year in those vehicles. I can't drive them when I'm riding a bike and my bike doesn't damage the road like your car does.... Cyclists who are doing something to stay fit & healthy pay a medicare levy for fat, lazy car drivers who overburden the public healthcare system. Maybe car drivers who don't pass a medical fitness test should pay a higher medicare levy?

Not all cyclists ride 2 abreast and cause problems. Just like not all car enthusiasts are hoons.
I use bike paths whenever they are available.

Back to the original topic,re the elderly or disabled driving scooters on the road etc. The scooters I've seen are registered and I've rarely had problems with them. Honestly, how many accidents involving scooters, cycles etc happen a year ? Yet a big deal gets made by certain motorists on the occasion it does happen, like it's a regular thing. Seems ironic and hypocritical coming from a car enthusiast car group, where we bitch & moan when we all get labelled as 'hoons' everytime there is a 'hoon' story on Today Tonight. Seems like some people here are doing exactly the same thing when it comes to other forms of transport...

[les82]

and maybe pedestrians should also be paying rego and CTP, afterall they also use the roads.... As a motorist, I've had to take far more evasive maneuvers to avoid collecting suicidal pedestrians than cyclists

most adult cyclists also own cars so they do pay CTP and rego. I own 3 vehicles which I pay over $2000 a year in rego & CTP, I'd be lucky to do more than 5000km a year in those vehicles. I can't drive them when I'm riding a bike and my bike doesn't damage the road like your car does.... Cyclists who are doing something to stay fit & healthy pay a medicare levy for fat, lazy car drivers who overburden the public healthcare system. Maybe car drivers who don't pass a medical fitness test should pay a higher medicare levy?

Not all cyclists ride 2 abreast and cause problems. Just like not all car enthusiasts are hoons.
I use bike paths whenever they are available.

Back to the original topic,re the elderly or disabled driving scooters on the road etc. The scooters I've seen are registered and I've rarely had problems with them. Honestly, how many accidents involving scooters, cycles etc happen a year ? Yet a big deal gets made by certain motorists on the occasion it does happen, like it's a regular thing. Seems ironic and hypocritical coming from a car enthusiast car group, where we bitch & moan when we all get labelled as 'hoons' everytime there is a 'hoon' story on Today Tonight. Seems like some people here are doing exactly the same thing when it comes to other forms of transport...

It doesnt matter how many vehicles you may pay CTP and rego for. At the end of the day a bicycle is still another vehicle on the road and should have the same rules as any other vehicle on the road. ie blinkers, headlight (on whilst riding at all times like a motorbike) brake lights a form of rego plate to be visible.
I don't think the medicare levy has anything to do with department of transport, But if your not "fit" to drive then you shouldn't be either.

[Darren_L]

It doesnt matter how many vehicles you may pay CTP and rego for. At the end of the day a bicycle is still another vehicle on the road and should have the same rules as any other vehicle on the road. ie blinkers, headlight (on whilst riding at all times like a motorbike) brake lights a form of rego plate to be visible.
I don't think the medicare levy has anything to do with department of transport, But if your not "fit" to drive then you shouldn't be either.

What about pedestrians ? They still use the roads too and have to stick to the same rules as any car or bike. They cause accidents and property damage as well. If cyclists should pay CTP and rego, so should pedestrians and they should also wear a visible registration number, high visibility vests and/or lights at night.

My point in regards to medicare, a typical cyclist will cost the taxpayer less money than an unfit car driver. You are pushing a user pays system. Motorists use the medicare system, so maybe car drivers who don't pass a basic fitness test should pay a higher medicare levy? It all eventually comes out of the same government budget...

Bottom line is, the governments will never charge cyclists for rego, because they want to ENCOURAGE more cyclists on the road for many reasons.
Less damage to roads, far less money needed to spend on land aquisition, road infrastructure and maintenance & very little carbon emissions, less traffic congestion, fewer road fatalities, healthier community/lower healthcare expenditure etc etc. All this also benefits the community in general.

[les82]

What about pedestrians ? They still use the roads too and have to stick to the same rules as any car or bike. They cause accidents and property damage as well. If cyclists should pay CTP and rego, so should pedestrians and they should also wear a visible registration number, high visibility vests and/or lights at night.

My point in regards to medicare, a typical cyclist will cost the taxpayer less money than an unfit car driver. You are pushing a user pays system. Motorists use the medicare system, so maybe car drivers who don't pass a basic fitness test should pay a higher medicare levy? It all eventually comes out of the same government budget...

Bottom line is, the governments will never charge cyclists for rego, because they want to ENCOURAGE more cyclists on the road for many reasons.
Less damage to roads, far less money needed to spend on land aquisition, road infrastructure and maintenance & very little carbon emissions, less traffic congestion, fewer road fatalities, healthier community/lower healthcare expenditure etc etc. All this also benefits the community in general.

Your probably right about the government never doing any thing about rego/ctp for bicycle riders. And although off topic I do kind of agree with what your saying about the medicare levy.

But in regards to pedestrians they are exactly that. A pedestrian. They are not in/on a vehicle and although they can cause damage by being careless, they are still a pedestrian. Any vehicle that wants to use the streets as the primary road/path should have to pay for it and have appropriate lights and indicators, just like all other vehicles using the roads IMO

[Darren_L]

But in regards to pedestrians they are exactly that. A pedestrian. They are not in/on a vehicle and although they can cause damage by being careless, they are still a pedestrian. Any vehicle that wants to use the streets as the primary road/path should have to pay for it and have appropriate lights and indicators, just like all other vehicles using the roads IMO

why does it make a difference if they are in a vehicle or on foot ?
Both are a means of transport on a road and carry the same risks.

According to the Webster dictionary, one of the defintions of a vehicle is 'a means of carrying or transporting something'
so if a pedestrian is carrying or transporting something (which they usually are) then they are, by definition considered a vehicle.

[Drawnnite]

Your probably right about the government never doing any thing about rego/ctp for bicycle riders. And although off topic I do kind of agree with what your saying about the medicare levy.

But in regards to pedestrians they are exactly that. A pedestrian. They are not in/on a vehicle and although they can cause damage by being careless, they are still a pedestrian. Any vehicle that wants to use the streets as the primary road/path should have to pay for it and have appropriate lights and indicators, just like all other vehicles using the roads IMO

obviously you have no idea about road laws regarding bikes =P
by law you have to have reflectors. use your hands as indicators. and have a flashing light on the rear when travelling in dark situations (so other can see you)
maybe people should read about the bike laws before critising them. so they know what they are argueing.

also you can get your bike engraved with a code for incase it gets stolen.

trust me. ive ridden for over 16 years straight. (always wearing a helmet)
and i know my bike isnt roadworthy (no reflectors etc) but i run that risk. i ride on footpaths (over 15/16 in vic thats illegal).
but im making it safer for myself and other road users.
im not on the road in the way of you flooring it to get your kids to/from school and im using a footpath which because your driving a car you do not use.

if we go on the definition of a "Vehicle" we should have everything including Wheelbarrows including in rego.
want to drop a load of mulch off to your neighbour 2 doors up? well youde better pay a huge rego and then you can take it up
dont believe me? (its down the bottom) click HERE




but back to the original topic.
its a shame that the elderly perosn had to pass away.
i just hope that others can learn from this and consider using the footpath more whenever it is available.

[Astranomical]

i've never had a near miss with a scooter.
perhaps you're the one that needs to learn how to drive

Well what would you say if I told you that I've had near-misses with them on foot? Would you say I need to learn how to walk as well? (which I can do quite alright thankyouverymuch, its not my fault that they come close to hitting me because don't look where they're going)

[ClairBear]

It's all about tolerance, some people have more than others. For instance some drivers would see a gopher/cyclist/pedestrian on the road and slow right down giving them time and space to move around. Others speed up and come in close to scare them. Same for on the footpaths and in shopping centres. Ever had to dodge a kid on a skateboard/scooter? You can either let it get to you and shake your fist at them or think "well I was young once and probably got in people's way."

In my suburb we have an elderly lady we have nicknamed the suicide granny. She shoots out into the road on her gopher of a fairly busy back street, used by rat runners in peak hour, without slowing down. She shakes her fist at you as you slam on the brakes to avoid her. Irritating and funny at the same time. If someone does eventually hit her, who is at fault? Imagine the slanted headlines if a P Plater hits her "hoon runs over poor old lady"

[JMP]

Whilst most of us have had near misses with bicycles and some have had near misses with scooters I bet we've all had a hell of a lot more near misses with idiots on the road that think they own it or have no care for anyone else on it. The road is there for everybody to use and to deprive the elderly on their scooters for what ever reason is a little unfair. Just remember one day you yourself will be in their position and there will be so many people arguing that you have no right to do anything you wish anymore purely because of your age.

Bottom line is we can all use the road safely if we all use it correctly and by that I mean bike riders, scooter riders and most importantly people in cars that seem to see red every time they see a bike rider on the road. We all need to respect everybody else on the road.

[87RB30VL]

I skipped a lot of what people said because quite frankly, everyone's just talking bullshit, someone makes a point, the other googles it, find that it's wrong, and then corrects said person, but in an argument that now makes them look like an idiot.

Also:



But really, I don't.

Clair's post a few posts up is probably the most agreeable thing on here so far.

[Astranomical]

Whilst most of us have had near misses with bicycles and some have had near misses with scooters I bet we've all had a hell of a lot more near misses with idiots on the road that think they own it or have no care for anyone else on it. The road is there for everybody to use and to deprive the elderly on their scooters for what ever reason is a little unfair. Just remember one day you yourself will be in their position and there will be so many people arguing that you have no right to do anything you wish anymore purely because of your age.

Bottom line is we can all use the road safely if we all use it correctly and by that I mean bike riders, scooter riders and most importantly people in cars that seem to see red every time they see a bike rider on the road. We all need to respect everybody else on the road.

Thats the thing - while you get your odd cyclist who is on a suicide mission, for the most part, I really have no problem with them, and always give them plenty of space when passing them. In fact the main problem I have with cycling is when I myself am on my bike (about once a month or so), and I end up nearly being killed by someone with no conisderation for others. But in my experience most people on scooters are a danger not just to themselves, but also to others.

[Zeussy]

Just getting back to the O/P for a second, sorry guys!

Some one has posted up a nice picture of the intersection. How grand is it that we see traffic control measures such as speed humps, painted line markings etc... But how do we know where he was crossing? Was he using the raised and clearly marked pedestrian crossing, or diagonally between the two streets? Reading the link the O/P posted, seems to me that it was the latter.

The 82-year-old was taken to the Gold Coast Hospital after the collision, which occurred on the intersection of Government Road and Beitz Avenue in Labrador.

If it was on the side street/raised pedestrian crossing, wouldn't it have said so?

The 82-year-old was taken to the Gold Coast Hospital after the collision, which occurred on a pedestrian crossing of Beitz Avenue in Labrador.

Push bike riders are terrorists, sent over to cause havoc and dismay amongst the many thousands of road users everyday.

They have (quite a lot) of designated cycle ways along side of the road ways, and even separate bridges/traffic signals. For this, they should pay rego.

People on mobility scooters have none of this. Lets face it, majority of them are old, where are they going anyway? To the chemist for prescriptions? Lets make a chemist that delivers.

Skateboard riders are a nuisance to society. We all know this.


Off topic for a sec, if that's ok?

I had an old lady back into my car in the RTA carpark, as I was transferring the Rego into my name. Old people have no place behind the wheel.

[DAKSTER]

Just getting back to the O/P for a second, sorry guys!

Some one has posted up a nice picture of the intersection. How grand is it that we see traffic control measures such as speed humps, painted line markings etc... But how do we know where he was crossing? Was he using the raised and clearly marked pedestrian crossing, or diagonally between the two streets? Reading the link the O/P posted, seems to me that it was the latter.

If it was on the side street/raised pedestrian crossing, wouldn't it have said so?

Push bike riders are terrorists, sent over to cause havoc and dismay amongst the many thousands of road users everyday.

They have (quite a lot) of designated cycle ways along side of the road ways, and even separate bridges/traffic signals. For this, they should pay rego.

People on mobility scooters have none of this. Lets face it, majority of them are old, where are they going anyway? To the chemist for prescriptions? Lets make a chemist that delivers.

Skateboard riders are a nuisance to society. We all know this.


Off topic for a sec, if that's ok?

I had an old lady back into my car in the RTA carpark, as I was transferring the Rego into my name. Old people have no place behind the wheel.

You're right, I posted a nice picture of the intersection. It clearly shows a side street with all kinds of impediments to speed. Those impediments are part of the intersection. It doesnt need to say in the report 'on a bicycle path' or 'on a paved section of the road' to mean thats exactly where it happened. It doesn't mean that it IS where it happened either, there simply isnt enough information to know.

The term 'intersection' would by definition mean exactly where the roads meet - the outer edge of the bike lane - if you wanted to be pedantic. I'm sure they werent being that precise in their description, it could have been anywhere within 50 or so metres. More than that and it would have been the intersection of the other road across the street.

Conclusion..you're right, it doesn't say exactly where he had the accident.

Reading the link the O/P posted, seems to me that it was the latter.

How? I think we just covered that...

I wont bother googling the overhead view since you dont like photos, but the 'main' street is also apparently not a major thoroughfare, and there is a lot of stuff around that intersection that simply screams 'slow down'.

I had an old lady back into my car in the RTA carpark, as I was transferring the Rego into my name. Old people have no place behind the wheel.

I had a hoon run a car into my bedroom window at 70kmh once. I was asleep in bed at the time, helluva way to wake up. Young people have no place behind the wheel? Nah I'm not that narrow minded..

Lets face it, majority of them are old, where are they going anyway? To the chemist for prescriptions?

If thats how you plan to spend your retirement, may I give you some advice? Stop saving for your retirement, party now then kill yourself when the money runs out. A life like that wouldnt be worth living. Its certainly not how I am spending my retirement. I'm having fun

[chickybabe]

Heres the intersection he was killed on. Speed bumps, bike lanes, the lot. Who says the 'old fart' did anything wrong? Look at this intersection and tell me who is most likely to cause an accident, a scooter rider or a car who is going too fast or not watching the road?

I live not far from here, and I know this intersection well - I make sure I avoid it as it's probably the worst one around. Cars fly along that road and it's even hard to come out of that street in your car, let alone on a scooter. The main road dips down to the right making it hard to see oncoming traffic, and because of the brick barriers and the level of the road, you practically have to put the nose of your car right out just to see if you are clear of traffic. Not safe at all.

Anyway, sad that it happened, and sad that he died on the Xmas holidays. RIP

[Zeussy]

You're right, theres a nice picture of the intersection. It clearly shows a side street with all kinds of impediments to speed. Those impediments are part of the intersection. It doesnt need to say in the report 'on a bicycle path' or 'on a paved section of the road' to mean thats exactly where it happened.

The term 'intersection' would by definition mean exactly where the roads meet - the outer edge of the bike lane - if you wanted to be pedantic. I'm sure they werent being that precise in their description, it could have been anywhere within 50 or so metres. More than that and it would have been the intersection of the other road across the street.

Conclusion..you're right, it doesn't say exactly where he had the accident.

Reading the link the O/P posted, seems to me that it was the latter.

How? I think we just covered that...

I wont bother googling the overhead view since you dont like photos, but the 'main' street is also apparently not a major thoroughfare, and there is a lot of stuff around that intersection that simply screams 'slow down'.

I had an old lady back into my car in the RTA carpark, as I was transferring the Rego into my name. Old people have no place behind the wheel.

I had a hoon run a car into my bedroom window at 70kmh once. I was asleep in bed at the time, helluva way to wake up. Young people have no place behind the wheel? Nah I'm not that narrow minded..

Lets face it, majority of them are old, where are they going anyway? To the chemist for prescriptions?

If thats how you plan to spend your retirement, may I give you some advice? Stop saving for your retirement, party now then kill yourself when the money runs out. A life like that wouldnt be worth living. Its certainly not how I am spending my retirement. I'm having fun

LOL. Wow, you like writing, the first two lines of my post were the 'serious' parts of my post. Which you agree, is a grey area. Indefinate at best.

In my post, I didn't mean to insinuate that I knew where the accident occurred, more-so to raise reasonable doubt that it could have in fact been anywhere in the near vicinity. It seemed as though most of the posters were convinced it happened on the pathway.

I like pictures, they tell a thousand words.


And the second half of my post screams sarcasm, so there's no point going into more detail than that.

Except that retirement age and the age at which one requires a mobility aid/scooter. Can be two very different ages. I plan to retire very early and watch my family grow up, as I grow old.

[Darren_L]

I skipped a lot of what people said because quite frankly, everyone's just talking bullshit, someone makes a point, the other googles it, find that it's wrong, and then corrects said person, but in an argument that now makes them look like an idiot.

But really, I don't.

Clair's post a few posts up is probably the most agreeable thing on here so far.

what makes a person look like an idiot, is when they claim to have skipped a lot of what people said, and then go on to say everyone's just talking bullshit.....

if you actually bothered to read most of the replies in defense of elderly scooter drivers and cyclists, then you would realise that Clair has fairly much summarised what we said...

[immortality]

It's all about tolerance, some people have more than others. For instance some drivers would see a gopher/cyclist/pedestrian on the road and slow right down giving them time and space to move around. Others speed up and come in close to scare them. Same for on the footpaths and in shopping centres. Ever had to dodge a kid on a skateboard/scooter? You can either let it get to you and shake your fist at them or think "well I was young once and probably got in people's way."

In my suburb we have an elderly lady we have nicknamed the suicide granny. She shoots out into the road on her gopher of a fairly busy back street, used by rat runners in peak hour, without slowing down. She shakes her fist at you as you slam on the brakes to avoid her. Irritating and funny at the same time. If someone does eventually hit her, who is at fault? Imagine the slanted headlines if a P Plater hits her "hoon runs over poor old lady"

she must have come for a visit to south Auckland because she stepped out in front of me and I almost killer her. I ended up mounting the curb, car sideways to avoid her. Then she too waved her arm at me suggesting it was my fault.......

Having being a cyclist myself (and been hit by a car because the driver wasn't paying attention at a intersection) I tend to give them a bit of room especially at intersections. Idiots on skateboards, well, they are fair game as far as i'm concerned.

[ClairBear]

FWIW I just returned from a ride on my bike, short stints on main roads keeping well within bike lanes to get to the bike tracks. My dad recently bought me a side mirror that is a good safety investment as I am not a rude cyclist that just believes I have a god given right to pass parked cars without thought to cars coming up behind me. I approach it like I do when driving and pull out only in the gaps or if the traffic is fast and thick I either stop behind parked vehicles or on a rare occasion go around on the footpath, but that is illegal.

My issue is with spandex spastics (sorry guys who wear lycra) who zoom up behind you in packs and almost knock you into the gutter. However I must say now I have my side mirror I can see them coming and prepare for the onslaught.

At the risk of repeating myself it's all about everyone having respect and tolerance for everyone else around you be that you are driving, walking, cycling or on your long board doing 60kph down a hill.

[Drawnnite]

could not agree more Clair

everyone needs a little respect.
everyone needs to calm down and not get so hyped up by tiny things.

and yeah i nearly got knocked off my bike today. well actually it was nearly me t-boning someone because they pulled out at rocket speeds from a pretty blind fast food place.
i just shrugged it off and thought, meh. might be a bit more careful there next time. (same place yesterday a ncie person didnt pull out so quick, and let me through)

[87RB30VL]

what makes a person look like an idiot, is when they claim to have skipped a lot of what people said, and then go on to say everyone's just talking bullshit.....

if you actually bothered to read most of the replies in defense of elderly scooter drivers and cyclists, then you would realise that Clair has fairly much summarised what we said...

I agreed with what Clair had said? Unfortunately, if people post 4, 5, 6 stupid things in a row, my attention span skips ahead because the thread was just going downhill.

It's gone from an old person getting hit on a scooter to how annoying cyclists are?