[VIC] Driving high powered vehicles on P's for work.

[scvs6]

Hey guys and girls,

Just need some help understanding something.

Here is a probationary prohibited vehicle exemption application form from VicRoads website:



Now that section that I have circled in red is the part I need help understanding.

"No exemption is required from VicRoads if the probationary driver is driving an employers probationary prohibited vehicle in the course of his or her employment and at the request of his or her employer or where there is an ABN is force in relation to the persons business."

Does this mean that if you are on your P's, you can drive a probationary prohibited vehicle if your employer owns the vehicle only? Or can you also legally test drive customers cars that are probationary prohibited vehicles if you have your employers permission?

Reason I ask, my employer lets me road test customers cars before/after I work on them, for example, if I change brakes, change over engine, or if I get asked to listen for a noise that a customer is complaining about, but he also tells me that if it is a V8, Supercharged V6, Turbo 6 Cylinder or similar, to take that application form with me incase I get pulled over and questioned.

Any help will be appreciated to help me understand what they mean exactly, as I don't want to risk getting fined for driving a high powered vehicle when i'm not supposed to. I know i'm not allowed to drive my own vehicle on my P's but this is different.

And also, I don't want to start an arguement on this subject, I just would like some help with the matter.

Cheers,
Ben.

[wamboin23]

I'd give VicRoads a call, but the way I read it, is that an exemption is not required if there is business been conducted under an ABN. You'd just need a declaration from your boss to say that the vehicle is been driven for employment.

[Reaper]

Hey guys and girls,

Just need some help understanding something.

Here is a probationary prohibited vehicle exemption application form from VicRoads website:



Now that section that I have circled in red is the part I need help understanding.

"No exemption is required from VicRoads if the probationary driver is driving an employers probationary prohibited vehicle in the course of his or her employment and at the request of his or her employer or where there is an ABN is force in relation to the persons business."

Does this mean that if you are on your P's, you can drive a probationary prohibited vehicle if your employer owns the vehicle only? Or can you also legally test drive customers cars that are probationary prohibited vehicles if you have your employers permission?

Reason I ask, my employer lets me road test customers cars before/after I work on them, for example, if I change brakes, change over engine, or if I get asked to listen for a noise that a customer is complaining about, but he also tells me that if it is a V8, Supercharged V6, Turbo 6 Cylinder or similar, to take that application form with me incase I get pulled over and questioned.

In your situation I believe the exemption would apply.

Reaper

[strgas]

for work purposes a p plate can drive high powered vehicles during the course of there employment , this covers test driving cars , transporting cars from sales to business , picking up customers cars and delivery them , if the said vehicle is owned by your boss or is a company car then yes platers are legally able to drive them , if the said vehicle is left in the care of a business conducting service work or repairs then the young driver as a company employee is covered , been thru this with vic roads and local police only two years ago to ensure our younger workers where covered .

[scvs6]

I'd give VicRoads a call, but the way I read it, is that an exemption is not required if there is business been conducted under an ABN. You'd just need a declaration from your boss to say that the vehicle is been driven for employment.

Yeah thats what I thought. Instead of writing up a declaration from my boss everytime I need to road test a vehicle, do you think that just calling my boss when if I get pulled over and letting the police speak to him would be enough, or would I need the form signed and dated?

In your situation I believe the exemption would apply.

Reaper

The way I read the bottom left of that form, I should be allowed to drive my own vehicle to and from work. But, only if there is no other method of transportation.

Now I drive 240kms a day to and from work (120kms each way), and I live in the middle of nowhere, so public transport or taxi isn't an option. But the way I read the part circled in red, makes me think that it can't be a vehicle I own, just an employers vehicle or customers vehicle. I am mainly just asking about driving customers cars. The only V8 that my boss owns is a HZ Caprice but thats not a work car.

[scvs6]

for work purposes a p plate can drive high powered vehicles during the course of there employment , this covers test driving cars , transporting cars from sales to business , picking up customers cars and delivery them , if the said vehicle is owned by your boss or is a company car then yes platers are legally able to drive them , if the said vehicle is left in the care of a business conducting service work or repairs then the young driver as a company employee is covered , been thru this with vic roads and local police only two years ago to ensure our younger workers where covered .

Ah ok, so I don't need to carry that form around with me, as long as I tell them that I am road testing a customers vehicle and that my boss gave me permission then it should be ok. And if they want proof, I can call my boss and put them on the phone to him?

[wamboin23]

i'd say just a generic cover letter would be fine. just on company letterhead, signed by the boss. wouldn't imagine you'd need to have a different note everytime you go out.

[scvs6]

i'd say just a generic cover letter would be fine. just on company letterhead, signed by the boss. wouldn't imagine you'd need to have a different note everytime you go out.

Yeah thats a good idea. The only thing that would change is that date, so I think what you said should be alright. I'll see what happens anyway, if I get pulled over and they say that I need more proof or something then they can explain to me what they want.

[fyfee]

Make sure you put your P plates up on every drive though

[scvs6]

Make sure you put your P plates up on every drive though

Yeah of course. I do that on any car I drive on the road, you get fined even if you don't have one P-Plate up (rear but not the front etc).

[aaronevolution]

Yeah of course. I do that on any car I drive on the road, you get fined even if you don't have one P-Plate up (rear but not the front etc).

You also get fined if you have L/P plates up an your fully licensed. My dad once got a fine and 3 points because he accidently left a magnetic L plate on the rear bumper of his VY wagon. What a rip.

[scvs6]

You also get fined if you have L/P plates up an your fully licensed. My dad once got a fine and 3 points because he accidently left a magnetic L plate on the rear bumper of his VY wagon. What a rip.

Haha yeah the guys at work risk that all the time. If a car comes in with P-Plates on it, they still road test it like normal or take it up to another workshop (exhaust shop, etc). If I see the P-Plates on there I tell them but they don't care haha.

[CapriciousWL]

The main thing is not to give the police an opportunity to question you. There is test driving and giving a car a "test". A generic letter and being respectable on the roads should theoretically cover you. The two to check with are VicRoads and the local police.

In respect to personal transport (which you were trying to avoid) I would be fairly careful here. Insurance as well as police attention would be an issue. Getting an exemption with no clear rationale will be next to impossible.

Fill out the exemption form and see what happens with the work option. From your signature I assume you have more than one personal vehicle - if they are all registered then there is an option other than the non-permitted vehicle (unless the Magna is a true beast). If the other cars are not registered and there are no other vehicles available there may be a reason to discuss exemptions but don't hold your breath.

[scvs6]

The main thing is not to give the police an opportunity to question you. There is test driving and giving a car a "test". A generic letter and being respectable on the roads should theoretically cover you. The two to check with are VicRoads and the local police.

In respect to personal transport (which you were trying to avoid) I would be fairly careful here. Insurance as well as police attention would be an issue. Getting an exemption with no clear rationale will be next to impossible.

Fill out the exemption form and see what happens with the work option. From your signature I assume you have more than one personal vehicle - if they are all registered then there is an option other than the non-permitted vehicle (unless the Magna is a true beast). If the other cars are not registered and there are no other vehicles available there may be a reason to discuss exemptions but don't hold your breath.

Yeah I know what you're saying. I'm not fussed if I can't drive the VS (it would be nice to be able to), I can get my dad to take it for a drive sometimes so at least it gets a run. But yeah, road testing customers cars is part of my job, it's not like I would ever thrash a customers car or do anything stupid because I respect other peoples property, I treat customers cars better then I treat my own cars haha.

If I drive normally then there shouldn't be any problems, but if the police see P-Plates on a car, then look at the badge and it says "SS", "V8", "Supercharged", "F6", "GT", etc, then they will be wondering why a P-Plater is driving those sort of cars.

I could probably even get away with driving my VS on my P's because it still has the ecotec V6 badge and the engine number on the rego sticker is still the same as the old engine, but I don't want to risk it, knowing my luck (and I am a very unlucky person), ill take the car out once, get pulled over, asked to open the bonnet, and then ill have to end up leaving the car on the side of the road. And I just don't want to imagine the car getting stolen or every window smashed and everything stolen out of it It would literally kill me if something like that ever happened to my VS, or even the Statesman.

[VIC_VE]

This is sort of relevant sort of not, but I'll tell you guys anyways as I know for the fact.

I operate my own business I have a registered private company so I have a ACN and an ABN which is owned by only me. I work for myself and drive 2 different VE's. One is a 6L V8 Calais and the other is a 3.6L V6 which has some minor modifications under the hood, OTR, Spacer, Extractors & Exhaust. The V8 is registered in the company name and the V6 is registered in my personal name and I've been pulled over in both a few times, more the V8 since I have Green P Plates displayed on it during the night on Fridays especially. I carry my business card around in my center console and every time I'm pulled over and they ask me if I can pop my hood one of the officers always looks around under there and then comes and asks me if I'm aware that its an offence to drive a high powered or modified vehicle on my probationary license (depending on which car I'm in). I always just say yes, however this is my company car they never ask where I'm going too or where I'm coming from they just take my business card, along with my license go to there patrol car for a few minutes I assume to do a few checks come back and says no problems at all sometimes asks for a on the side bretho and all clears they send me off with a Drive Safely and have a good night.

Never once have I had any issues, and I have no letter with me or anything just my business card. I helped a friend of mine 3 month ago setup a ABN for sole trading with no GST requirements and he spent about $100 on getting some business cards made up for a business that he doesn't really run and his been pulled over in his VE SS, twice since then and he used the same tactic I told him to use and his had no issues either. The story here I think is that assuming your not doing something stupid they wont question how in relation to your work is your reasoning to drive if you are caught doing something you shouldn't be the whole thing may get investigated.

TBH frankly these days V6... V8 not alot of difference in terms of how much damage you could do on the road V6 gets up and boogies at 100km/h within 7 seconds off the line no struggle V8 only what.. 1.4-6seconds difference (from what I remember comparing the two) only just over 2 car length if dragging from 0-100 in straight line and I tell you there both going to kill you if you go doing it in a place you shouldn't be the police know this, we all know this they just care about getting the legitimate idiots off the road so if your out to stir prepare to be punished, genuine work reasons you'll be fine.

Disclaimer: This is only speculation and I do not advise or take responsibility for any action your take based on the information I provide here. If in doubt please contact a legal representative before taking action as I do not hold responsibility for the result of anything you may do based on my speculation and/or theory'd advise.

[rk has a vn]

Ummm the modified car part dose that mean I can't drive my car?
K&n air filter and 2.5 cat back?

[CapriciousWL]

Some of us weren't going to go down the line of creative business ideas, but yes that generally would work. Not recommended for a variety of reasons.

Questions still are insurance and if you are misbehaving (the car may lead you astray....) what happens then?

Totally right with the V6 and V8 capabilities. Anyone can get a vehicle up to speed and loose control or attract undue attention.

For work, definitely seems ok, for personal transport get your father to drive (under supervision of couse).

[VIC_VE]

Ummm the modified car part dose that mean I can't drive my car?
K&n air filter and 2.5 cat back?

The cops could book you on it yes, likely hood of it happening not very but it is heard of. Oh and its 3 points and around $300~ mark. Not fun. lol

Let's be honest your VN aint gonna be outrunning a STOCK VE V6 on only those modifications but the legal speaks by its words and its any (4 cyl, 6cyl) Engine Modified to increase vehicles performance, excluding modifications done during the factory process of manufacturing of that vehicle. So really the systems screwed, just think about it. :P

Disclaimer: This is only speculation and I do not advise or take responsibility for any action your take based on the information I provide here. If in doubt please contact a legal representative before taking action as I do not hold responsibility for the result of anything you may do based on my speculation and/or theory'd advise.

[VIC_VE]

Some of us weren't going to go down the line of creative business ideas, but yes that generally would work. Not recommended for a variety of reasons.

You could be fully employed by someone else and run a on the side business, having a ABN is not illegal if you don't actually run a business. You could have one just sitting there doing nothing for years as long as you arent registered for GST nothing can happen to you. If you cash flow (in your side business, separate from your employed income) less than $49,999 p.a you dont need to register for GST and you could be selling something on eBay thats under the business. Your not obligated to report this to the ATO either as its under threshold.

Questions still are insurance and if you are misbehaving (the car may lead you astray....) what happens then?.

Insurance? Not sure I understand. You get pulled over in your car registered in your personal name, you tell them your on a business trip to purchase a drink from the store and decided to take your work car? - No issues?
You have an accident and the police is required onsite, you tell them the truth that it was a personal trip you cop the 3 points as it was bad luck - better the burn the 3 points than have insurance issues? Depends on circumstances I'm only saying that it can work not that it should be done and if it is been done, there is a price to pay of 3 points and around $300 if you need to claim under personal insurance.

Edit: Also I noticed your from QLD, not sure if this is what you mean but in VIC your not required to have your car insured. Your legally around to drive in VIC without car insurance as long as you have a registered car that's roadworthy and will not fail 3 unroadworthy items at any given time on a victorian motorway. It may be different in QLD as some states in Australia require the car to not just be registered but also insured.

Remember you don't need to register your car under a company name to be running your own business, as a sole trader you have to register under your personal name anyway! It's only company bodys who can hold car titles.

Disclaimer: This is only speculation and I do not advise or take responsibility for any action your take based on the information I provide here. If in doubt please contact a legal representative before taking action as I do not hold responsibility for the result of anything you may do based on my speculation and/or theory'd advise.

[Drawnnite]

ill just put 2 cents from knowledge in.

firstly insurance driving high powered car while exempted.
if its for your workplace, such as a mechanics shop. they would have insurance for testing etc? (from what ive been told)
however if it is work owned car. in huge companies, they generally do not get insurance.
the reasoning is cost recovery. eg paying all the insurance on 200+ cars or pay repairs on say the 4 that may get crashed. which is cheaper? (repairs)


also
my workplace has a huge range of work cars.
including a fair few diesel v8

if i ever have to drive it such as picking it up from another workplace.
to my knowledge i do not need written confirmation.
as obviously im in work gear. the vehicle has the company name over it.

but it is extremely unlikely this would happen. seriously ive driven them maybe 2 times, and thats on worksites. not on public roadways

[scvs6]

Thanks for your help guys. My boss and I didn't understand it exactly because of the way it's written, but all that info has helped alot.

Thanks

[Krisp]

so if your a p plater, you can pretty much buy a high performance vechical with your own abn number then say its for work?

[ffestival]

Yeah I know what you're saying. I'm not fussed if I can't drive the VS (it would be nice to be able to), I can get my dad to take it for a drive sometimes so at least it gets a run. But yeah, road testing customers cars is part of my job, it's not like I would ever thrash a customers car or do anything stupid because I respect other peoples property, I treat customers cars better then I treat my own cars haha.

If I drive normally then there shouldn't be any problems, but if the police see P-Plates on a car, then look at the badge and it says "SS", "V8", "Supercharged", "F6", "GT", etc, then they will be wondering why a P-Plater is driving those sort of cars.

I could probably even get away with driving my VS on my P's because it still has the ecotec V6 badge and the engine number on the rego sticker is still the same as the old engine, but I don't want to risk it, knowing my luck (and I am a very unlucky person), ill take the car out once, get pulled over, asked to open the bonnet, and then ill have to end up leaving the car on the side of the road. And I just don't want to imagine the car getting stolen or every window smashed and everything stolen out of it It would literally kill me if something like that ever happened to my VS, or even the Statesman.

### you talk shit as soon as you get behind the wheel of a powerful car like you have listed you would thrash the ### out of it no matter whos car it is especially a f6 or gt. as for leaving your car on the side of the road i hope this does happen and your car gets torched if not then at least stolen and torched then hopfully you will see that you have waisted all your time and money on an old pointless car instead of something later model. i dont even think any pplater should be on the road they are a hazard and cause more acidents a year then anyone else

[scvs6]

### you talk shit as soon as you get behind the wheel of a powerful car like you have listed you would thrash the ### out of it no matter whos car it is especially a f6 or gt. as for leaving your car on the side of the road i hope this does happen and your car gets torched if not then at least stolen and torched then hopfully you will see that you have waisted all your time and money on an old pointless car instead of something later model. i dont even think any pplater should be on the road they are a hazard and cause more acidents a year then anyone else

Who the hell is this guy? Really getting annoyed and frustrated with you. Of course I don't thrash customers cars, that would be abusing the trust I have with my boss to be driving a customers car safely and then I wont be allowed or trusted to road test a customers car. As for my car getting stolen and torched, good luck with that. If I did break down on the side of the road, or get pulled over and told to leave my car, I would refuse to leave until my car is towed home safely. I see at least one car a week on the western freeway that is parked on the side, then within a couple of days if it is not moved, every window is smashed, so I would never leave my car for that reason.

If you don't have something nice to say, then don't say anything at all, it's as simple as that.

[ClairBear]

### you talk shit as soon as you get behind the wheel of a powerful car like you have listed you would thrash the ### out of it no matter whos car it is especially a f6 or gt.

So you know him personally? I think it's you talking shit and baiting members for no reason.

i hope this does happen and your car gets torched

You are a sad old man who has nothing better than to sit on a forum and troll members.