are police going too far?

[dmacey]

Lol so you think it's fair game for someone to steal your car if you leave the keys in it because they're not putting any lives at risk, so you must also think it's alright for someone to walk in through your back door at home if you leave it unlocked?
As stated previously cops don't actually race you when they bait you (at least they didn't with me when they tried) they rev their engines and fool you into thinking they will race and then turn on the sirens if your dumb enough to engage them.

Nope, never said that, never thought that. Did you read my response? It was your comment "do you also think that cops planting cars for thieves to steal and then catching them in the act is wrong? Also if you accidentally left your keys in your car and someone stole it would you think that is unfair or fair? "

I answered " No I don't have a problem with that at all" I have said this time and time again, If you do something wrong expect to be dealt with to the full extent of the law.

Dave

[Jesterarts]

Yet you see it normal to jeopardise public safety and the safety of the officers involved. You can't stop chases altogether, but you an make a call on the most appropriate need for one to happen.

Dave

And the police alrady do this every time they engage in a pursuit. See, the issue is that the police don't get a slap on the back and a cheers from the media and community for every successful interception. They only get dragged through the shit on ones that go wrong.

And once again, it's not the police that put the community and themselves at risk. It's the idiot who they engage. Lets quite this bullshit attitude that the idiots who are the root cause of all this don't carry any blame while the police are responsible for the actions of these idiots.

And in regards to your comment on CCTV, and rego recognition. That doesn't exactl help if the car is stolen, the plates are stolen or the plates are removed all together. Plus I don't know where you live will all these CCTV camera's on every street corner, but regardless of that, have you seen the quality of the footage from those cameras?

This isn't minority report mate.

[dmacey]

And the police alrady do this every time they engage in a pursuit. See, the issue is that the police don't get a slap on the back and a cheers from the media and community for every successful interception. They only get dragged through the shit on ones that go wrong.

So, should the next budget for police should allow for increase spending on Public Relations? If thats a contributing factor to such media attention. I personally would have thought better equipment and further training would help. Have you had an opportunity to read the training material new recruits have when going through initial training? A lot of focus on marching and ceremonial conduct. 6 months and they are out on the road upholding the law. If you wanted to become a representative of the law, how long should that take, 6 months? last time i checked it was over 5 years. Somethings gone amiss, or are Police recruits the cream of society psychical prowess and mental intellect that they have it all covered in half a year?

And once again, it's not the police that put the community and themselves at risk. It's the idiot who they engage. Lets quite this bullshit attitude that the idiots who are the root cause of all this don't carry any blame while the police are responsible for the actions of these idiots.

Passing judgment on what is an acceptable level of risk associated to the public and officers in the heat of the moment is always going to be a difficult task, and I don’t envy that position at all. The conduct of any public servant or anyone in todays society is always going to be criticised when something goes wrong, it happens in all sectors it happens in all industries, why should they be immune to scrutiny when everyone else out there is subject to performance appraisals? must be the bad PR again.

Form your pervious comments I was under the impression we had moved on from the what if’s, but i see your point here. There is always going to be mitigating circumstances that a seasoned career criminal is going to engage in an attempt to escape persecution, these members of the miscreant classes are doing bigger things remember, and I highly doubt these are the people baiting is targeting.

And in regards to your comment on CCTV, and rego recognition. That doesn't exactl help if the car is stolen, the plates are stolen or the plates are removed all together. Plus I don't know where you live will all these CCTV camera's on every street corner, but regardless of that, have you seen the quality of the footage from those cameras?

This isn't minority report mate.

As for the equipment not being up to task, why install it then? surely they put the stuff through the rigors of testing before committing to the purchase and installation, you pointed this out in a previous comment also when you asked if

“wouldn't you want them to be as effective as they can in their jobs to ensure you get best service for your money?”

Seems like a waste of money if it can't produce anything that will be admissible as evidence, whats it for then? show?

Im not talking about a movie mate, im talking about reality, happening everyday

Dave

[JMP]

Nope, never said that, never thought that. Did you read my response? It was your comment "do you also think that cops planting cars for thieves to steal and then catching them in the act is wrong? Also if you accidentally left your keys in your car and someone stole it would you think that is unfair or fair? "

I answered " No I don't have a problem with that at all" I have said this time and time again, If you do something wrong expect to be dealt with to the full extent of the law.

Dave

I did read your response that's why I wrote LOL.
The second part of my question - "Also if you accidentally left your keys in your car and someone stole it would you think that is unfair or fair?"
Your answer - "No life is put at risk during the operations you have described, so no i don't have problem with it at all."

Sorry but it does sound like your ok with someone taking your car if you leave your keys in it cause no life is put at risk.

What's the difference between cops baiting people and planting cars for thieves? I've may be wrong on this but I've yet to hear of a case where the cops actually did race someone before booking them. As it was mentioned before they let you go and then nab you, much like when they plant a car.

[tonza]

If a cop is next to you at the lights, "baiting" you and egging you on, revving there car and so forth, and you decide to floor it at green, the cops are the bad guys because they successfully proved that you broke the law?
You don't have to take the bait do you? You could just shoot a glance at the car next to you, trying to get you to have a go, and just shake your head and take off normally. Not gonna get pulled over then are we?
Don't see what is so hard to understand about all this.
Don't take the bait, don't get caught. Simple

[Julie]

If a cop is next to you at the lights, "baiting" you and egging you on, revving there car and so forth, and you decide to floor it at green, the cops are the bad guys because they successfully proved that you broke the law?
You don't have to take the bait do you? You could just shoot a glance at the car next to you, trying to get you to have a go, and just shake your head and take off normally. Not gonna get pulled over then are we?
Don't see what is so hard to understand about all this.
Don't take the bait, don't get caught. Simple

Agree 110% they aren't putting a bullet to your head and making you speed,take some personal responsibility. I would get much more personal satisfaction from rolling my eyes, shaking my head at or wiggling my little finger at some tryhard tool wanting to race and if it did turn out to be a copper then you get to sit back and LOL not bitch and moan about what pigs they are.

[dmacey]

Hooning as described by Queensland Police, these are the sort of things you can be issued a Traffic infringement notice for.


What is hooning?

Hooning may include donuts, drifting, fishtails, revving of engines, screeching brakes, skidding, burn outs, time trials/street racing and rolling road blocks.

What are the dangers of hooning?

Hooning behaviour, even performed at low speeds, may cause the driver to lose control of their vehicle, leave the roadway and collide with a fixed object or a pedestrian.


I understand and agree that you would have to be a fool if you take the bait and floor it, no argument there. However this tactic in my view and understanding goes against the law they are enforcing, and their code of conduct.

Dave

[dmacey]

I did read your response that's why I wrote LOL.
The second part of my question - "Also if you accidentally left your keys in your car and someone stole it would you think that is unfair or fair?"
Your answer - "No life is put at risk during the operations you have described, so no i don't have problem with it at all."

Sorry but it does sound like your ok with someone taking your car if you leave your keys in it cause no life is put at risk.

What's the difference between cops baiting people and planting cars for thieves? I've may be wrong on this but I've yet to hear of a case where the cops actually did race someone before booking them. As it was mentioned before they let you go and then nab you, much like when they plant a car.

Planting a car for a thief isn't circumventing any laws in place, Why would I have problem with that? I don't, and to be clear I wouldn't be ok with it if someone stole my car because I left me keys in it. Thats crazy to suggest I would be.

Maybe I should have said "No I don't have problem with it at all, no life is put at risk during the operations you have described" bad sentence structure on my behalf.

By applying the law you and I are subject too, the difference is clear.

Dave

[JMP]

We all could debate the wrongs or rights about this until the cows come home, but at the end of the day we all pay taxes and some of those taxes go towards police enforcement. I don't care how the law catches up with these idiots on the road as long as they do, even if it means that in some peoples eyes the process is unethical. Some of these tools have no respect for anyone else on the road so why should the police or even us have any respect for them.

I just can't believe that there are some people that try to find a way to defend themselves or cry foul when they get caught breaking the law. If you break the law and get caught then you should get punished full stop! It shouldn't matter how you got caught, you still broke the law so you still should take your medicine even if you believe the police went outside the boundaries of their job. In the past I've been caught for the occasional stupid decision that most of us may have made but I've never once cried about it and said it was unfair when I've been pinned for it.

[dmacey]

We all could debate the wrongs or rights about this until the cows come home, but at the end of the day we all pay taxes and some of those taxes go towards police enforcement. I don't care how the law catches up with these idiots on the road as long as they do, even if it means that in some peoples eyes the process is unethical. Some of these tools have no respect for anyone else on the road so why should the police or even us have any respect for them.

I just can't believe that there are some people that try to find a way to defend themselves or cry foul when they get caught breaking the law. If you break the law and get caught then you should get punished full stop! It shouldn't matter how you got caught, you still broke the law so you still should take your medicine even if you believe the police went outside the boundaries of their job. In the past I've been caught for the occasional stupid decision that most of us may have made but I've never once cried about it and said it was unfair when I've been pinned for it.

99% agree with you here, Im guessing you know the 1% I don’t.
I have to say, I do see your point of view, and respect it and just to be clear, My incense is squeaky clean, so i’m not defending myself with my points of view or comments.

I only have a problem with the principles behind the tactics, and only these tactic when associated with traffic. The boys & girls in blue are faced with a monumental task of maintaining order and public safety, get a wage that allot of us exceed, with outdated equipment and little recognition.

Your right this could go on forever, but it's not the first time and I bet it won’t be the last time it’s brought up.

Dave

[Banicks]

My point is these idiots wouldn't be drag racing if they were not baited in the first place, sure enough they might be doing it other times. What I'm talking about is in that instance, the law is being broken as a direct result of the law enforcer breaking the very law they are enforcing. Is that not slightly ironic that we justify speeding so long as its to stop speeding drivers? There has to be a better way, or do we just give up and continue to put lives at risk?

What happens when this baiting practice turns into a high speed chase, the driver loses control and kills a law abiding citizen? Is it worth the risk? That incident would not have transpired in the first place if the baiting was not used as a primary method of traffic enforcement.

Dave

These idiots WILL drag race! They drag race other idiots, and continue to do so with each idiot that challenges them before they are even “baited”. So they are already causing dangerous situations, placing the public at risk!

The difference is when they are “baited” by a cop – they are CAUGHT. But in their eyes it’s just another challenge from a fellow idiot, until those sirens go off.

Police have their own set of procedures to follow should it turn into a high speed chase, so using that as a excuse to not bait is redundant.

I can understand you're against the ethics of it. But IMO the cops are doing their job. It's not like you'd find undercover cops breaking into a drug ring unethical by befriending members of that circle?

This is simply an effective method of catching hoons out. It's not like the hoons are going to drag marked cars. You should only be against it if your way of driving would be caught out.

[I8.A4.RE]

As for the equipment not being up to task, why install it then? surely they put the stuff through the rigors of testing before committing to the purchase and installation, you pointed this out in a previous comment also when you asked if

“wouldn't you want them to be as effective as they can in their jobs to ensure you get best service for your money?”

Seems like a waste of money if it can't produce anything that will be admissible as evidence, whats it for then? show?

That's not how government departments work Lol. Yes they test all products/equipment to see if it performs the task they require, adequately and as long as they meet Australian Standards. Risk assessments have to be undertaken & Safe work methods have to be implimented. Cost is the main factor in purchasing equipment. Their 'Purchasing Policy' will reflect this.