Social welfare

[m1lky]

Drives me nuts that I pay for the people who can't be bothered to work.

While the system is great in theory (you can survive if your made redundant etc til you find a job) too many people exploit it.

Besides why work part time when you'll get just as much to do nothing. but if your a student, studying to better yourself your not entitled to squat.

What are your thoughts?

[minux]

lol, watch the commies come flying into this

I personally think there should be a levy on wages that is banked as part of your own wages, say, a percentage like super. When you become unemployed the government uses a figure of your money and matches it weekly. When it runs out you are cut off. This means you have to bank money before you can claim unemployment. If you are sacked etc then you can run a deficit which is paid back when employed but benefits will only be paid for a short period.
This country has too many job snobs that think a job is beneath them so they dont do it...yet they do not realise being unemployed is like the lowest of low...I mean who seriously wants to be seen going into centrelink?

Obviously these benefits would alter based on illness etc but same theory applies, you pay back 50% of what you take tax free.

[MAG00]

but if your a student, studying to better yourself your not entitled to squat.

Well if you are payed Youth Allowance you get quite a bit of money to study. The problem is that "higher income" families are simply cut off after a certain income and receive no help what so ever.

[Drawnnite]

to add to what minux is saying. which does sound fair.

from memory and learnings the USA system (not sure if now) used o be very similar.
the amount of time you worked for say 1 year in full time. was the amount of time you could have on welfare and be paid for it (unemployed).
i do not know how it works, but it does mean you have to work to atleast get welfare.

sure some people need to be on welfare and others dont.
its all a balancing act and unless it can be made 100% perfect there will always be winners and losers in the system.

[the_boozer]

Try being a single tradesman in ya 40s all I get is to pay taxes and fines.
If we give them nothing they will be robbing us.
In terms of Australia's budget not that much of it is spent on welfare.
What pisses me of mostly is those that have never paid 1 cent of taxes getting more than an a pensioner who paid taxes for 40+ years, I don't think the pension should be means tested. Most of us will be old 1 day .

[Huntington]

I am going to try not to come back to this thread so I dont end up rambling and getting myself frustrated over something I cant change, but needless to say I am very much in favor of a "didn't earn it, can't have it" approach.

If you earnt the right to welfare through hard work and employment, it's yours for a period.
Same would apply to earning it through pain and suffering for people who are injured or unable to work, and even carers of people who need assistance in life, carers work especially hard and don't always receive a benefit.

If you sit on the couch and watch TV all day, stiff shit, no welfare, go get a job.

[minux]

In terms of Australia's budget not that much of it is spent on welfare.

Are you serious?

Spending Summary 2011 federal budget

$121,907,000,000 - Social Security and Welfare
$96,797,000,000 - General Government Services
$59,858,000,000 - Health
$29,870,000,000 - Education
$21,277,000,000 - Defence
$14,843,000,000 - Industry and Workforce
$13,221,000,000 - Infrastructure, Transport and Energy
$8,044,000,000 - Community Services and Culture

If that is not much I would hate to see what is a lot!!

[SM1D3Y]

Interesting points made. To go through life just scraping by, not being able to travel or buy the thing you want ?? Hmm I'd prefer to work and earn the money to live properly. Having said that their are parts of our society that are grossly over paid, 10 million dollar golden handshakes for CEO's doesn't seem well earned to me. Just my thoughts.......

[VS_Pete_1]

^^^^
We didn`t do so well one year boss gave himself $100000 payrise.
Makes u want to work harder after staff level has dropped by 6

[VRCALAISS]

you rude bastards,it's hard work going to centrelink every two weeks

[MikeCuzzy]

If you can work, work. If illness or injury genuinely prevents it, by all means claim the welfare that you are entitled too under our welfare system.

If you are looking for employment, you are entitled to welfare. If you "can't find a job" after 4-6 weeks of searching, you're not looking hard enough, I've worked at *insert large fast food restaurant chain* and they'll hire anyone at least once.

My Dad always says "If you want to work, there will always be work."

He was with a company that went bust, and lost his job, never claimed welfare - he just worked his arse off at whatever jobs he could get till he got another full time gig. It's a work ethic he instilled in me.

[ClairBear]

The dole is supposed to be a temporary payment to assist you while you look for work. Unfortunately too many know the loopholes and ways to stay on the system long term, even generations of families who have never worked.

I believe it should limited to a time frame of say 3 - 6 months maximum to assist those that are genuine.

[minux]

Interesting points made. To go through life just scraping by, not being able to travel or buy the thing you want ?? Hmm I'd prefer to work and earn the money to live properly. Having said that their are parts of our society that are grossly over paid, 10 million dollar golden handshakes for CEO's doesn't seem well earned to me. Just my thoughts.......

Most of them earn it, sadly, people like yourself who are jealous of this will always get angry. Look what happens when we pay peanuts to people in charge of large things, we end up with a lying redhead idiot in charge with everything going to shit.

[SM1D3Y]

Haha jealous ?? Come now, let's keep it on point. NO one deserves a 10 million dollar payout !!!

[MikeCuzzy]

Most of them earn it, sadly, people like yourself who are jealous of this will always get angry. Look what happens when we pay peanuts to people in charge of large things, we end up with a lying redhead idiot in charge with everything going to shit.

You're very right Minux, they earn it, they make sacrifices in their life to get to that level - not least of which - years of study. I've got some rather well off family who are "international business men/women" and they live in the cities, spend many months over seas in different countries.

But they live out of suitcases, haven't lived in a house more than about 1 year, and are only now "settling down" at 40+, not they way I would choose to live.

I work hard at my job, I have my Commodore (my Dad's old car which I look after as best as I can), looking to rent a house with one of my good friends in my little town and spending time with my girlfriend whenever I can.

I want a nice, quiet, rural life. I certainly don't resent those who earn more money, that's their lifestyle, I have mine - so long as I am happy with my life. What does it matter what other people do?

[Julie]

What I would like to see is people may be eligible for govt assistance on a temporary basis, say 6 weeks top and they MUST actively seek work and apply for any job they can. If they do not get a job then they should have govco assist them in the search for work and they must attend interviews or training and what not. On the days where they are not fulfilling intensive jobseeking work they should be working for our country. Mandatory community service when they aren't actively jobseeking have them do shitty hard labor intensive work. Have them picking up trash, scrubbing grafitti off walls, scraping chewy off foot paths anything basically that will benefit the community and make them work. If they don't turn up for their community service no money for them. None of this make a couple of job enquiries a week and fill out a diary bullshit. You want money you earn it one way or another.

[tonza]

Youth Allowance being quite a bit of money? LOL please
I'm going into full time study this year and applied for youth allowance. What i will be getting will barely cover petrol and/or bus fares to get me to uni and back for the week. Hence why i will be going back to my previous workplace and working full time night shift hours.

Sadly too many people have well off parents to pay their way through uni, but for those of us who live in the real world and simply dont want to leech off the system, working while studying is the only way to go.

Also, atleast in queensland, certain courses like security, some computer/IT and even some licenses tickets (forklift etc) are subsidised or paid for fully by the government. Pretty good that you can get this training for nothing or next to nothing, and have qualifications to get into a particular field or job. Really, other than illness, there is no excuse for not having a job these days. How hard is it to even register with a dozen or so employment agencies or similar companies? Obviously too hard for some

[c2105026]

Welfare... I feel everyone has the basic human right to food and shelter. Dole is about $400/fortnight; $200/week does not go far at all. Lets say (for a single person), food $60/week, rent (housing commission) $70/week, Bills (power, phone) $40/week - leaves $30/week to clothe oneself, get around, for entertainment and healthcare. This breakdown allows for no alcohol or tobacco, and certainly no car. Its hardly the holiday people are making it out to be. Just imagine the sheer bordeom of getting up and not doing anything, repeated adnauseum for 50+ yrs. Perfect storm of unhappiness - you have nothing to do, and no money to spend doing anything. In addition, its not like you can save for a rainy day, build capital, or do anyhting that is really meaningful.

The thing is, from what I understand, once you have been unemployed for X amounts of months you start to get more and more unemployable. It could be that you are out of said industry and not keeping up with the trends for you are out of the loop, meaning you lack technical knowledge (this is surprisingly common for some teachers who go on a decades worth of maternity leave, for example). In addition, employment agencies see your CV and wonder why you are not employed again by now (bad referees?). In addition if you want a casual job and are over 21, your chances are greatly diminished, becasue unless they are desperate they will take the teens for they can be paid less. Finally, after being unemployed for so long some may develop depression, and 'give up'. At this stage a disability pension may be more appropriate.

It may be popular to bash welfare recipients, especially those who have received benefits for a long time, but what if the same situation happened to you? Like all things, I am quite sure most welfare recipients are doing the right thing, attend interviews, keep job-hunt diaries and so on, just that those who flout the system create a bad reputation for everyone else. I will finish by saying that I would support enhanced surveillance of welfare recipients to weed out the bad apples.

[ClairBear]

There are currently compulsory activities required at certain weeks unemployed that Job Seekers are required to do, including work experience (used to be called work for the dole) at 52 weeks, however the Government are weak and allow Job Seekers to get away with not doing their activities with flimsy excuses. Maybe if they got tougher and more people lost their dole we might see a few more finding work.

[gossie]

There should be no dole. People of all ages need to work for what they earn, even if it's building roads or sweeping foot paths.

[ClairBear]

This breakdown allows for no alcohol or tobacco, and certainly no car.

Well I work in this system and I can say quite categorically that the long term dole bludgers all buy their smokes and their grog first. Then they turn to social agencies screaming at them for further assistance to pay the rent, give them food vouchers or pay their utilities. My first memory in this system many years back was a young man who slammed his giant sized packet of smokes on the desk and proceeded to rant at me that we didn't seem to care he had no milk for his kids........ I guess the fags were a greater priority. They also know if they say they have a job they can have their car registered for 3 months. So they get a job, get the car registered then fail to show up and get fired. Petrol is given out too, all they say is "I have a job interview" and they get fuel vouchers. I could go on, but these people don't struggle. They deal in drugs, stolen goods, break and enter or just keep hitting up charities.

Just imagine the sheer bordeom of getting up and not doing anything

Hardly. Between court appearances, committing crimes to top up their income, visiting the homes of their various kids (the males) or taking the kids to their various dads (the females) and hanging out with all their dole bludger mates getting drunk, these people live busy lives.

The thing is, from what I understand, once you have been unemployed for X amounts of months you start to get more and more unemployable.

Catch 22. The longer you are unemployed the more assistance available to get you back into work. There are buckets of money to train and assist these people. For instance Jan 1, wage assist was released. Up to $7500 for an employer in a 6 month period is the Job Seeker works for 6 months full time. Trouble is these bludgers don't want to work. However a highly motivated person who has been unemployed for 2 months may ask for assistance renewing a ticket for instance so he/she can secure a job offer. Sorry - no funds for you - come back in a few years!!

[RiCeY]

Its simple really. Dont give long term unemployed money, give them vouchers instead. Vouchers for shopping (not valid for smokes or alcohol), vouchers for rent, vouchers for public transport and vouchers for water, gas and electricity. If you run out of vouchers, tough shit. You have to wait till the next lot come out.

This will force people to learn to budget and they'll soon get off their asses and get a job.

[minux]

Haha jealous ?? Come now, let's keep it on point. NO one deserves a 10 million dollar payout !!!

Umm, when I invest my money in a company I want the best, when you have someone managing a hundred billion dollar outfit, they are worth that 10 million.

This breakdown allows for no alcohol or tobacco, and certainly no car

And yet we see the unemployed smoking and drinking quite often. Obviously they get paid too much!

It could be that you are out of said industry and not keeping up with the trends for you are out of the loop, meaning you lack technical knowledge (this is surprisingly common for some teachers who go on a decades worth of maternity leave, for example).

Teachers? Really? Here in vic they must attend continuation training that is audited, this is done so that while on family leave they do not get behind. I am 110% certain the same happens in NSW. So I doubt it is as common as you make out.

Finally, after being unemployed for so long some may develop depression, and 'give up'. At this stage a disability pension may be more appropriate.

How about a swift kick up the arse and putting them into any job available and forcing them to work to earn THEIR income? Seriously, a disability pension for self created depression...yep, that is not enabling them!

but what if the same situation happened to you?

I hate this response with a passion. That situation cannot happen to me. I have income insurance that covers me for 5 years at 75% of my current income. I pay top dollar for it. If people are too stupid to protect their income now through thrify spending than more fool them. I have ZERO sympathy for those who think nothing will go wrong in life so over spend on shit but whinge when it all goes to shit.

[ClairBear]

may develop depression, and 'give up'. At this stage a disability pension may be more appropriate.

I missed this line.

You don't get DSP for depression. If you did most of the country would be on it lol.

It's not easy now to get a DSP, you have to measure up to a points scale of 20. Pretty much at this point you are dribbling down your chin with no limbs. DSP recipients are now reassessed periodically, thankfully, whereas once DSP was a life payment and the ultimate goal for a dole bludger. As welfare to work moves on, DSP will be assessed constantly and those who have a temporary condition will be moved back to Newstart Payments when their condition changes for the best or disappears.

Like Minux, I doubt I will ever be on this system, my income protection is 75% of my wage until I reach 65. This kicks in after 30 days. I have a separate savings account with quite a few thousand dollars in to fall back on in the interim and top me up if needed.

[minux]

I have a separate savings account with quite a few thousand dollars in to fall back on in the interim and top me up if needed.

We will just use or future kids education fund that we have haha. Just means no Geelong College for them