Who's come away disappointed test driving a new car?

[Wombat]

OK, a few thoughts from the deepest recesses of what passes for my mind...

Me and the Missus decided we might treat ourselves to a brand new car for the first time...we have heaps of home equity (having been lucky and bought when the market was very low back in 2000) and only have one kid left at home. Not that there's anything actually wrong with our beloved VS-II Berlina, we just decided to have a look at what is around.

Now, don't gag, but we checked out virtually every new four cylinder car around. I mean, petrol ain't getting cheaper, and some of the modern stuff has great power to weight outputs on paper, so off we went.

First stop was the Volkswagen dealership...we have lusted after a Golf Turbo diesel for ages...the idea of 1100km+ out of a tank of juice has a lot to do with it...but because of stupid protectionist import taxes, you pay over $33000 for what is basically a nice economical family hot hatch. Forget it. We were after somethign around the $16000 to maybe $20,000 changeover after trade-in.
Ford Focus was our next stop. On paper they are great...2 liter, auto with a manual change function which should give it good go, but while it was a nice drive, we found it just a bit....boring.
Holden Astra coupe was something which caught our eye, but it too didn't have near the bite that the looks suggested.
Mazda 3 was nice...just not as exciting as I'd expected from all the brochure and "zoom zoom" hype...
The Lancer 2.4ltr Mivec engine is a sweet piece of kit, but it is saddled with a chassis which doesn't quite feel "right".
The Subaru Impreza was just in our price range, but the catch is we would have been able to only afford the lower-spec 2.0i engine...and it is a slug...handles nicely, looks great, smooth, comfy...but a slug.
The Toyota Corolla had some good deals going locally, and we drove a hatch, automatic, air, power steer, mags...it was a toey little thing, handled OK, looked good...but the dash looked very plain, it made some mechanical noise at 100km/hr, and it just wasn't and real fun either.

On the drive home in our Berlina, we said "forget it", and decided to keep the VS. It's smooth, it's got a fair amount of grunt, it handles fine, it's quiet at speed, and we know we can comfortably hop in it tomorrow and drive to Cairns in a day and half.
The fuel economy of a lot of new four cylinders was a shock too...the damn things use nearly as much fuel as an Ecotec...in fact, some of the highway figures were pretty close to what we get now, fully loaded and air and cruise control on! I put it down to weight...a lot of new four cylinders weight, as much as a Commodore of the VS-era, if not more.

To hell with them all...we're going to get the paint professionally touched up and detailed, maybe lower it an inch, tint the windows, fit a bit better stereo, and maybe a couple of simple mods like a cold air intake and better filter, maybe a chip as well.
I think we'd rather cruise in comfort even if we do use a liter or two more per hundred kilometers. Oh I know that new Commodores and Falcons would wipe the floor with our old VS, but we couldn't stretch the budget that far...I'm glad we didn't and decided to keep her!

Who else has almost got rid of thier "old" Commodore and then found new stuff to be boring by comparison when they test drove it?

[pro_gmh]

There are a few mods you can do to make her a bit fuel friendy. Like CAI, New o2 sensor, properly inflated tires, keeping you engine serviced and running smooth and effiecntly.

Nice work, wish i could afford somthing as even a VS lol.

[gmhvl6]

I can see exactly where you're coming from Wombat.
I fail to understand why people go out and spend $20-30k on a 4 cyl fwd pos which has the interior space of a matchbox when for the same money you could get a near new low km Commodore/Berlina/Calais etc. I know which I would prefer. As you said, the fuel saving is marginal and I'd rather spend an extra $10-$20 per week in fuel than be stuck in some small gutless fwd car.

[Tasmaniak]

his not saying that they were gutless. Yes Wombat, the Corolla's are toey little machines. I have learnt this for myself. Yes, they are rather boring. Although I have found this one fun to drive in the constant layer of ice on the road.

I think the biggest thing you have too look at is what you get and reliabilty factor.

I have always done my car shopping like this...

What do I want? e.g. body shape. Our last purchase was for a 4x4. So, this brang my questioning to..who makes the best 4x4? I had to say Jeep. Because...thats all they make.

Then I went into my budget and looked at what I could afford.$**,000 So, thats where I started shopping. I think the thing here is. Try to steer away from the Japanese cars. They are made for a lot of power on a little budget and no little mod cons.....when was the last time you saw a little japanese car with a trip computer? Never, because it's not needed in Japan.

If I can offer a peice advice. Take a look at a Magna. They are pretty damn quick (wasn't there a stage when a Exec Magna was quicker then same year exec commy?) they have the comfort (I think they are more comfortable) they have the safety of FWD. They use a little less fuel then the VS. Honestly, if I was back in Australia. I would buy one of them before a Commodore or Falcon.

[sixshooter]

R u outta your mind...????

Firstly as soon as you drive that new car out the gate you loose something like 20% of the car value...

Secondly 4 cylinder cars just dont last as long mechanically compared to a 6 or 8...

Thirdly... cheaper to put your berlina on gas and get similar fuel economy...

I'd never buy a new car... unless I was well healed and ithe car was a Porsche or Ferrari or something sporty that would most likely have been thrashed on the 2nd hand market.

[vztrt]

Why dont you look for a fatory duel fuel or straight LPG 6 cylinder sedan. Your fuel bill will be lower than the petrol equvalant.
I'm sure Holden will bring one out with the VE (would be sill not too) and Ford already have one.

[bangers]

plus magnas cost 450 bucks to change spark plugs as all the intake has to be removed. these days you're better off talking to a mechanic before buying a car. better to spend a few extra thou upfront then waste more further down the track.

[vztrt]

plus magnas cost 450 bucks to change spark plugs as all the intake has to be removed. these days you're better off talking to a mechanic before buying a car. better to spend a few extra thou upfront then waste more further down the track.

I think the Alloytec has the same problem.

[Wombat]

I take on board everything you're all saying and agree with quite a lot of it.

I was quite happy with the build quality, warantees, service costs, and robustness of the engines of all the cars we drove...
...but...
Probably my biggest "disappointment" was, to be blunt, the lack of grunt.
Come on, this is 2006...they say there ain't no substitute for cubes, but yes there is..."technology"...that's why a V6 Ecotec puts out power figures more than a 308 or even a Ford 351 of the early eighties, and why the Alloytec 190 pizzles on a great many of the "legendary" performance cars of the past.
My sons 1990 Toyota Seca SX with the bulletproof 4-AGE 1.6ltr twin cam 16 valve engine puts out 135hp, and goes far harder than any of the crop of brand new four cylinder cars, and as quick as our VS Berlina. I was at least expecting 16 years of Japanese technology to match a 1990 Corolla...but I was sadly mistaken.
That is the benchmark I went for in performance...it had to be at least as quick as our sons car, which is stock, and feel as good to drive...but as I said...I was sadly mistaken. It appears to meet the performance of a 16 year old Corolla 4-AGE twin cam you have to spend a lot of money on up-spec performance versions of the current crop of hatches and tick a lot of option boxes to get the same equipment levels...

But Oh well...barring a lotto win the VS is staying put!

[Tasmaniak]

You can't base your view of 4cylinders on the 4age motor though. Toyota claim themselves....that motor was FLUKE it was not intended to be such a bullet proog motor nor that powerful. I owned a Camry with that motor in it and it would wipe the floor with Commodores.

[clixanup]

Secondly 4 cylinder cars just dont last as long mechanically compared to a 6 or 8...

And your scientific proof of this can be found where?

Many Corollas I've seen around have 300,000+ km on them. Mine had 215,000 when I sold it, and it wasn't blowing smoke. And it still started first turn of the key, every time. It was a lot more reliable and efficient than the 6 cylinder VB Commodore which was my first car. The body was starting to rust & it looked really dilapidated, but mechanically, I could not fault the car.

The Toyota Corolla had some good deals going locally, and we drove a hatch, automatic, air, power steer, mags...it was a toey little thing, handled OK, looked good...but the dash looked very plain, it made some mechanical noise at 100km/hr, and it just wasn't and real fun either.

Don't buy an automatic 4 cylinder car.

[Tasmaniak]

we just got rid of our 98 Corolla with over 320,000 miles on the clock. Yes, it was sold due to mechanical failure. The transmission was stuffed through my driving style. (I'm EXTREMELY hard on vehicles.)

Engine it was fine, it never blew smoke and it was just as toey as my sister in laws who has an 04 with 25,000. The fault with the transmission was a bearing on the output shaft.

[sixshooter]

And your scientific proof of this can be found where?

Many Corollas I've seen around have 300,000+ km on them. Mine had 215,000 when I sold it, and it wasn't blowing smoke. And it still started first turn of the key, every time. It was a lot more reliable and efficient than the 6 cylinder VB Commodore which was my first car. The body was starting to rust & it looked really dilapidated, but mechanically, I could not fault the car.

Don't buy an automatic 4 cylinder car.

Yeah !!! but they wouldn't be the original motor thats for sure...

My 1.6 Toyota shitbox blew up at 260,000 something... it was so gutless before it blew it felt like I could get out and walk faster most of the time...

Scientific proof ???...no need... just common sense will tell you these 4 pot motors make more power higher in the rev range than a 6 or 8 so they need to kept on the boil to get the most out of them.

More revs = more wear'n'tear = shorter life.

[clixanup]

Yeah !!! but they wouldn't be the original motor thats for sure...

Read 12VK's post above yours. He sold his at 320,000 miles. That's 512,000 kilometres. And it's only fault? A bearing in the transmission. No smoke and it still ran like new. Speaks for itself.

Mine still had its original motor when I sold it. It was a 4AF-C. Tough little motor. Twin cam 1.6 "SR". It was carbied, but started and ran like a fuel injected car. It took all my crap for 5 years. It had no problems keeping up with V6 Commodores. I only changed cars because my boss offered me a package.

Scientific proof ???...no need... just common sense will tell you these 4 pot motors make more power higher in the rev range than a 6 or 8 so they need to kept on the boil to get the most out of them.

That's a crock. Show me scientific proof that a 4 cylinder engine won't last as long as a 6.

More revs = more wear'n'tear = shorter life.

Mine had shorter gearing than a Commodore, so it didn't need to be higher in the rev range. I never had it dynoed, but it felt like it made peak torque pretty low anyway.

And besides, DOHC = no lifters, no pushrods, no rockers. In my book, less moving parts in an engine can only be a good thing...

[sixshooter]

Hey Clixanup, your entitled to your beliefs and I mine...

I've owned 2 Toyotas in my life and they've both been absolute dogs... the 2nd car was treated to a brand new motor from Japan and it's blown the head gasket within 20,000 km... that speaks enough for itself. I've leant from experience... and wont buy another Jap car ever again... but jap bikes are a different story.... gmhvl6 sums up my thoughts on 4 cylinder cars nicely...

I fail to understand why people go out and spend $20-30k on a 4 cyl fwd pos which has the interior space of a matchbox when for the same money you could get a near new low km Commodore/Berlina/Calais etc. I know which I would prefer. As you said, the fuel saving is marginal and I'd rather spend an extra $10-$20 per week in fuel than be stuck in some small gutless fwd car.

[sixshooter]

Oh but let me ask you this one question Clixanup...

If 4 cylinders last as long as 12Volt says they do...and they are so cheap to run...and as fast as a v6 commodore...

Why the hell do Taxi drivers drive around in 6 cylinder cars ?

[bangers]

Oh but let me ask you this one question Clixanup...

If 4 cylinders last as long as 12Volt says they do...and they are so cheap to run...and as fast as a v6 commodore...

Why the hell do Taxi drivers drive around in 6 cylinder cars ?

I have to agree with clixanup. my mates '88 celica has well over 300,000km and still hauls arse. Look at the old corolla's and corona's still getting around. it's usually only when an engine design is new that there are problems and these are normally fixed in the next series. just like ford and holden. and in answer to your question there are more and more camry's becoming taxi's. and 4 pots too for fuel economy reasons. out my way heaps of taxi's are camry's, more so than fords, and there aren't any holdens.

[clixanup]

If 4 cylinders last as long as 12Volt says they do...and they are so cheap to run...and as fast as a v6 commodore...

Why the hell do Taxi drivers drive around in 6 cylinder cars ?

Ever noticed how few Commodores serve taxi duty? The majority of Melbourne taxis are still Falcons. Although as Bangers said, Toyotas are becoming more popular with taxi drivers.

Or were you asking why they'd use a family sized sedan instead of a small hatchback? That's just a ridiculous question, and does nothing to prove that 4 cylinder engines don't last as long.

[dephilile]

Yeah !!! but they wouldn't be the original motor thats for sure...

My 1.6 Toyota shitbox blew up at 260,000 something... it was so gutless before it blew it felt like I could get out and walk faster most of the time...

Scientific proof ???...no need... just common sense will tell you these 4 pot motors make more power higher in the rev range than a 6 or 8 so they need to kept on the boil to get the most out of them.

More revs = more wear'n'tear = shorter life.

More cylinders = more moving parts = more to go wrong

[pro_gmh]

Yer i see many toyota avalon's and camerys goin up the gutters and zipping through traffic lol

[sixshooter]

Never in all my life have I seen a Toyota Taxi...actually to think of it I've seen a few Magna's....but I dunno if the were v6 or 4's...

If we want to get scientific about 4 vs 6 then we can take a look at heat retention...we all know high temp causes oil breakdown and motor wear.

Well just look at the mass of a 6 compared to a 4 ? there's more surface area for heat transfer from the motor, therefore @ a given rpm a 6 should be running cooler than a 4....I rest my case.

I guess the only way you can verify this theory is to ask an engine reconditioner what motors last longer.

[pro_gmh]

Well just look at the mass of a 6 compared to a 4 ? there's more surface area for heat transfer from the motor, therefore @ a given rpm a 6 should be running cooler than a 4....I rest my case.

I reckon this is floored. this extra size of a 6 is taken up by another 2 cylenders.

Also check out how hot a 5L gets for exapmle.

No motor can survive with out a cooling system, ie radiator etc. so its fair to include the standard cooling system in any comparison of motors.

[Joes_meat]

I think it has more to do with the particular engine design.

i.e. bullet-proof 4age 4-pots.
versus the pathetic Hyundai SOHC 4-pots of the early 90's.

Look at say an old XF 4.0L motor. Had a lot of problems with warping heads - due to alloy head on a cast iron block. The head and block expand at different rates = bad. (Poor head gasket design also had an effect.)

The 202's had pistons that tended to crumble.

2.6L Astron II's in the Magna's and Sigma's had timing-chain problems, valve stem seal problems, oil pump chain problems... I love these engines. =\

Lots and lots and lots of newer 4 cylinders have timing belt problems.

Etc...

[dephilile]

Never in all my life have I seen a Toyota Taxi...actually to think of it I've seen a few Magna's....but I dunno if the were v6 or 4's...

If we want to get scientific about 4 vs 6 then we can take a look at heat retention...we all know high temp causes oil breakdown and motor wear.

Well just look at the mass of a 6 compared to a 4 ? there's more surface area for heat transfer from the motor, therefore @ a given rpm a 6 should be running cooler than a 4....I rest my case.

I guess the only way you can verify this theory is to ask an engine reconditioner what motors last longer.

If that’s the sort of logic you are going to use it could be argued that the two or four extra cylinders would create more heat so any benefits of a larger engine block aiding in cooling would be offset by this.

Anyway, if the correct alloy is used heat shouldn’t be an issue.

[clixanup]

Never in all my life have I seen a Toyota Taxi...

You need to get out more. Try driving along the Tulla at 8am and see how many Toyota taxis you'll come across.

If we want to get scientific about 4 vs 6 then we can take a look at heat retention...we all know high temp causes oil breakdown and motor wear.

Well just look at the mass of a 6 compared to a 4 ? there's more surface area for heat transfer from the motor, therefore @ a given rpm a 6 should be running cooler than a 4....I rest my case.

How about in the case of a FWD? At speed, air is cooling a whole side of the block. But the whole temperature argument is baseless, since the engine will only run at the temperature decided by the thermostat. Most engines are the same. My Gen3 runs at 110 degrees. After even a short drive, you get a stinking hot punch to the face when you open the bonnet. I've never experienced that with any of the prior cars I've owned.