Our Working Conditions And Rights.....

[Hairy Eater]

i can't believe that john howard want to turn Australia backwards to end up like most Asian countries.... we'll end like them.... barely enough income to live on... no holidays or holiday pay at all... no sick leave... whoever bargains the LOWEST salary will get the job... we end up like the Phillipines, minimum wage there is about AU$7 a day and food costs are only about 50% cheaper than food here... john howard has already got it set up for his bussiness buddies to import thousands of filioino workers now WITH OUT ADVTISING the job first for australians to apply for them....

[vt1538]

Have you tried to employ any skilled tradesmen lately? Thanks to the boom in I.T. years ago schools under the direction of the government removed metalwork & woodwork from the curriculum. This basically discouraged kids from following the manual trades & caused a shortage of skilled labour.
If you are a boilermaker or diesel fitter at the moment you can virtually hold them for ransom with regards to pay.
One other thing. The companies that are using the "cheap"labour from overseas actually have to set up the infrastructure for them.This is not a cheap exercise.
I am against importing labour but until people get off their asses it is the only way our country can move forward.

[bangers]

i heard you still get holidays and stuff but are given the option to cash them in.

[vlv8vic]

bloke i know just HAD his application approved to employ 110 skilled migrants.
Why? because the lazy slackjaws here think they are too good to work in the slaughterhouse and would rather be unemployed.
Some aussies just dont want to work hard enough. bring on people who DO want to work and WILL lift the tone of our slack workforce.

[Tasmaniak]

I'm almost in agreeance with vlv8vic here. I have worked with many different nationalities. You name them, I reckon I've worked with them. Guess who was the laziest. Those bloody Australians.

If the average Australian didn't demand so much then perhaps they would get better jobs.

Look at it like this.

When you goto purchase something. Don'
t you look for the best deal and the best return for your money? Why should you do the same when it comes to workers? Essentially an employee is a product that you are purchasing.

Don't even start to whinge and bitch about how much they will be paid. The minimum wage here in the US is about $7AUD and don't think that because you have skill you are going to get more.....oh no. An employer NEVER has to pay you more then the mininum wage. Even a laywer only has to get paid that much if their employer so decided...just no laywaer would

[AussieHolden]

We have to vote Labor back in there for the working class always have.

[BANGERS88]

i partly agree with what you guys are saying about aussies being lazy, but i also agree with what hairy eater is saying about these new laws, espesially the grounds of dissmisal part! being able to sack an employee for basically no reason is not right imo.

[vt1538]

Having a lazy ass tool drawing a wage & not being able to sack him is the problem now. Fcuk the workers rights where are the employers rights. Hopefully one day you wont have to put up with the crap that I do on a daily basis.

[BANGERS88]

"Fcuk the workers rights where are the employers rights."

the employers rights are in this new policy of for example a parent who is not rostered on but if called in and cant make can be sacked just like that.

[vt1538]

Try the 3 warnings, then independant moderation and then finally permission to terminate that you get now. So called rights like this is what has made a percentage of "workers" lazy.
The whole wharf coming to a standstill because they can smell a dim sum bakery down the road. This is the sort of crap that we as a country have had to put up with.
I am not for dismissal without due course. I am against the useless few who hide behind the unions to get one weeks pay for one hours work, and expect you the employer to be grateful.

[MasterOfReality]

I fully support the new IR reforms.

I have worked in heavy unionised industries and its absolutely frustrating the shit that the unions can get away with.

Its about restoring the rights to the employer. After all, they are the ones handing out the jobs. It will also make workers more accountable for their stuff ups, instead of hiding behind the cloak of unions.

Also, I like the idea that you can trade off conditions for more pay or vice versa. I done that for my last job and it meant I could spend more time at home or more time at work, depending on how I wanted to work it.

To suggest that we will end up like the Phillipines is just repeating the rubbish coming from the Labor party and the ACTU.

[dyno355]

We have to vote Labor back in there for the working class always have.

I second that motion.

There are obviously more emloyers on this site than employee's.
Fortunately for emloyee's, we make up a significantly larger voting population than the employers do.

Some of the comments about Australians being lazy are so narrow minded and unjustified you should be ashamed.

[EvoVIIIJDM]

Thats right dyno355, not all australians are lazy, alot are thats granted but thats the same for any race of people, im sure these lazy people over the globe everywhere.
It is very hard to find skilled labour, being an engineer in the mech eng/ mining industry, we can charge what we like basically for our services because the competition is so limited, Boiler making especially as vt1538 has said. If aussies dont want the jobs, we need to fill them somehow. My company employs people from all over the world singapore, sth africa, zimbabwe, chile whoever wants the job the most is gonna get it.

[dyno355]

Have you tried to employ any skilled tradesmen lately?

Have you?
The skilled tradespeople are there, you just have to pay them right.
Young people today arn't drawn to trades because there isn't as much money as there should be, Importing workers is NOT the answer. The imported workers in my workplace are by far the laziest yet work every minute allowable of overtime.

So many skilled/older tradespeople have left trades because the industry standards havn't moved an inch since the 80's, the pay rises in those sectors are nowhere near matching inflation. Automotive industy being a pefect example thanks to poorly run, bad organisations such as VACC. We work to live, and if you cant live because of where you work then people move jobs.

[siriansun]

bloke i know just HAD his application approved to employ 110 skilled migrants.
Why? because the lazy slackjaws here think they are too good to work in the slaughterhouse and would rather be unemployed.
Some aussies just dont want to work hard enough. bring on people who DO want to work and WILL lift the tone of our slack workforce.

We face the same problem in our industry. The majority of our staff are migrants and I have to say they do a damn good job and don't stop what they are doing every 5 minutes to bitch or gossip about shit.

VT1538 you said it brilliantly. Where are the employers basic rights? We went through so much grief to sack the lazy ass who was stealing from not only the company but fellow workers.


What we need to do is find a happy medium where both parties work toward a mutual goal. Bring on profit sharing! Everyone gains something then.

Lucy

[vt1538]

I second that motion.


Some of the comments about Australians being lazy are so narrow minded and unjustified you should be ashamed.

I should be ashamed? Unjustified?
I am more embarressed that to get workers you have to go overseas. When you get to see the world through an employers eyes is when you will have an informed opinion on the matter.
This is not a dig at you as an individual. I have seen both sides of the coin & would much rather be an employee these days. Only the time I have invested to get where I am is what keeps me here.

[MasterOfReality]

Have you?
The skilled tradespeople are there, you just have to pay them right.
Young people today arn't drawn to trades because there isn't as much money as there should be, Importing workers is NOT the answer. The imported workers in my workplace are by far the laziest yet work every minute allowable of overtime.

So many skilled/older tradespeople have left trades because the industry standards havn't moved an inch since the 80's, the pay rises in those sectors are nowhere near matching inflation. Automotive industy being a pefect example thanks to poorly run, bad organisations such as VACC. We work to live, and if you cant live because of where you work then people move jobs.

What determines how much money should be in a trade? The problem is most young people expect too much. They want to leave school, have a trade handed to them and suddenly earn $60k in their first year. Its not going to happen and people have to be realistic.

When was the last time you saw a payrise in the mining sector? You are right, it was a very long time ago, but you don't see the miners complaining as they being paid alot to begin with, and they know it! Thats my example, I don't know about other industries.

A friend of mine is in his 3rd year as an apprentice fitter. Sure he whinges about the pay but he can see the potential when he finishes. He is also taking hydraulics courses at tafe to firm up his resume, and when he finishes, he will be raking it in.

Another mate of mine (who whinged about being unemployed) refused a job in a local coal mine because he didn't want to get dirty. Given that he had no qualifications at all, his subsequent bitch about not being able to find a decent job lost him a lot of respect from me. Lazy? Yes.

[vt1538]

One of the semi trailer manufaturers recently employed imported labour. They also had to find them housing, arrange schooling for the children, pay them to have english lessons & also employ interpreters to aid in their assimilation to the country. They also looked after their transport needs. It would of been cheaper to employ local labour however 12 months of advertising lead to 3 applications.
What would you do?

[dyno355]

What determines how much money should be in a trade? The problem is most young people expect too much. They want to leave school, have a trade handed to them and suddenly earn $60k in their first year. Its not going to happen and people have to be realistic.

It is hard to determine how much money should be in a trade, but something isn't right when T/A's and factory hand's with no qualifications are earning twice as much as a mechinic with 20yrs experiance. I'm a Toolmaker btw not a mechanic.

When was the last time you saw a payrise in the mining sector? You are right, it was a very long time ago, but you don't see the miners complaining as they being paid alot to begin with, and they know it! Thats my example, I don't know about other industries.

They wouldn't have been getting payed alot to begin with if it wasn't for unions.

A friend of mine is in his 3rd year as an apprentice fitter. Sure he whinges about the pay but he can see the potential when he finishes. He is also taking hydraulics courses at tafe to firm up his resume, and when he finishes, he will be raking it in.

We all had to do it.
No doubt he we go on to be a maintanance fitter and gross $90,000+ p/a

Another mate of mine (who whinged about being unemployed) refused a job in a local coal mine because he didn't want to get dirty. Given that he had no qualifications at all, his subsequent bitch about not being able to find a decent job lost him a lot of respect from me. Lazy? Yes.

He must be pretty stupid.


Lazy? Not me.

[dyno355]

It would of been cheaper to employ local labour however 12 months of advertising lead to 3 applications.
What would you do?

Perhaps cheaper in the first 2-3 years?
just out of interest what location?

[vt1538]

That was in Vic, I wont disclose the name as they already have had a few dramas.
Up here in Alice there is already 2 companies that have employed an Indian labour force. And a few that are looking into it. I would personally employ locals but there is no one qualified out there.
Another point to mention is the skill level of these immigrants. The basic standards that they are accredited to are much higher than those over here.They have skills that hopefully can be handed on to our own workforce which will in turn benefit the country.

[dyno355]

Another point to mention is the skill level of these immigrants. The basic standards that they are accredited to are much higher than those over here.They have skills that hopefully can be handed on to our own workforce which will in turn benefit the country.

I strongly disagree. The may have a piece of paper that says degree or diploma but I have seen a hundered times that they don't have the skill. They lie there way into the postition then feel there way through it to try and keep their job.
This is my experiance with immigrant workers.

[vt1538]

I agree that there is rotten apples in the bunch. And have seen some shocking examples. 1 was a so called Refrigeration Mechanic from India. Needless to say he was out on his ass in under a week.
A lot of resumes that have crossed the desk have had a bit more fiction than fact. That is why a probationary period works. Not just so the employer can see the workmans skills but so the worker can decide if he likes the position, workplace conditions etc.

[gocommygo]

i was unemployed since i was 15 years old, could never find a job, not even the local supermarket would take me, with a resume full of all the "goodies" F*****G stoners with NO brains got a job and worked about as hard as a fat person on a sunday. then heres the good bit, i get out of skool, POOR AS look to tafe to try get sum sort of qualifications in either plumbing or electrical but NO "sorry we dont do those courses here" WTF how can employers want apprentices with qualifications when theres nowhere offering those? and 3/4 of the courses at tafe were for apprentices only, that is crap. now im stuck at a sawmill working my ass for for 8.90 an hour...

[Hairy Eater]

so if employers have to supply english classes for immigrants... that clearly shows that the immigramts would have no idea what are the working and pay conditions already in place here..... best thing that showed up EMPLOYERS the other night was TV Current Affairs program showed this filipino's supplied accomodation.... sure he got a house but HE he just had a matress and sheet that HE bought for himself... this was the only furniture that HE had... had to buy it for himself...