P Platers vs Oldies

[Pretender]

Made you look.

I am not looking for replies or arguments to this post but just feel the need to voice my thoughts. MODS please kill this thread at the first sign of argumentative posts or if you think it will cause such.
This is also clearly my opinion only and is not an attempt to force that on anybody.

Here goes:
I am so tired of reading threads that somehow get turned into P Platers vs Oldies or P Plater bashing threads with the associated generalising and sometimes abusive posts that are made once it gets heated. It is tedious with the same arguments everytime from both sides.
It is laughable, given the defensive reasons stated in some posts, how some on both sides demean some other driver category in another post. The argument they used in the first post seems to get forgotten.
I have seen very good and very bad drivers in every category and every age group you can think of, as I'm sure most of you have.
There are P Plate drivers who are well above average and there are many "experienced" older drivers who are well below average. I don't think it is logical or fair to generalise about either.
If you see a P Plater being a Di<khead or an Oldy being a Di<khead that's easy, they are both Di<kheads (but only the ones you witnessed).
Tragic mistakes can and are made by inexperienced drivers probably more so than by experienced drivers but this does not mean in any way that only P Platers are inexperienced.
Think about this (poor example but I hope my intended meaning comes through).
A P Plater who drives as part of their employment may cover 50000kms in their first licensed year. Would they not have equal or more experience than a 25 year old that uses public transport to get to work, only driving on Weekends in less traffic, and covering the 50000kms in eight years?
In my own case, I had been driving bush bombs on slippery gravel tracks, clay pans and swamps for six years before I got my license. I was very experienced with the actual driving and handling of a car but wasn't experienced at all in traffic until I took lessons whilst on my Ls. Was I a good driver on P Plates, Yes & No. Experience does make you better at anything but some can gain that experience quickly. You will not suddenly get experience in driving on the last days on your Ps. For some it is quickly acquired and for others at 43 (my brother) they still couldn't be called experienced because some people are just bad drivers.

Apologies to anyone who may deem this thread as offensive.

My favourite quote about assumptions: I saw a grey cat today therefore all cats are grey.

I just hope the arguments lessen and stop infecting otherwise interesting or informative threads.

Oh well, I got that out.
Thanks for reading.

[TheForgotten]

ooohhh your gonna get flamed simply for having an opinion, but I agree 150%, some p platers are good drivers, and some oldies are shockers. but nothing will ever change the public perception of us p platers.......
same goes between modded car owners vs joe average. a 2005 monaro will stop quicker than a 2005 hyundai (any model) in tha same conditions, and the monaro can go faster before the picks are thrown out, and still stop quicker. but modded car owners are all hoons who don't give a stuff about laws or the health and safety of joe average in his/her stock korean shitbox deathtrap....
now i'm gonna get flamed.....

[semi]

good post... both of you! but still.. its all been said before and its not gonna change the way people view others, especially p platers and us car enthusiasts in general

[State'O ReBeL]

im a 2nd year apprentice glazier, i drive at least 700kms per week in heavey traffic all day 5 days a week, im on my green p's, i would regard my self as a skilled under 25 driver

thats how people are telling us apart, insurance companies ask are you over or under 25y.o.

[ProMaX]

ooohhh your gonna get flamed simply for having an opinion, but I agree 150%, some p platers are good drivers, and some oldies are shockers. but nothing will ever change the public perception of us p platers.......
same goes between modded car owners vs joe average. a 2005 monaro will stop quicker than a 2005 hyundai (any model) in tha same conditions, and the monaro can go faster before the picks are thrown out, and still stop quicker. but modded car owners are all hoons who don't give a stuff about laws or the health and safety of joe average in his/her stock korean shitbox deathtrap....
now i'm gonna get flamed.....

C'mon now thats the generalisation he was talking about, not all modded car drivers are like that, i agree with pretender 100% and that the point i was making in the other thread

my mums been driving waayyyy longer than me and she's on her full licence and mate is she a shocker or wat... she speeds at the most inappropriate times and the rest of the time she's as slow as a snail hanging to the left of the lane with no depth perception... i'm not saying i'm an excellent driver but i do believe i'm satisfactory, I love driving, to the shops, long distances, picking up my siblings whatever, i driving every single day and i enjoy it thoroughly

[Cal.oz]

when i first read the topic i was like argh get over it, but good post, agree 100% good and bad drivers in all categories

[Outlaw Torn]

Very good point Pretender, im not an aussie, but i know what u mean, ive experienced some really shockers and done some real shockers, but aint that what inexperience is all about.

[Jimboss]

I think most people on these forums know that there are d1ckheads from all age groups.

On a side note, just as you expressed your views, i would like to say my views ona related subject. I believe that P-Platers shouldn't be the only ones who have to do a test for their licence, all young drivers know exactly what the rules are, it's just they choose not to obey them (it happens, we all know it), i think that all older drivers need to sit at least a written test of the road rules when renewing their licences, it's only once every five years, and i know they would hate it, but it'd mean that everyone on the road would be know more than 5 years out of date in the road rules.
I think that something along the lines of everyone to do the test before renewal would be a good way of lowering the road toll and especially crashes.

I'm not sure what issue, but in a Open Road magazine, the figures for crashes was almost as high in the 35 - 49 (? not sure exactly) age bracket as it was for the 17 - 25. Is this not proof enough???

I know that the oldies don't want to have do resit tests at all, i don't ever want to have to do another one, but i'm not talking about testing a drivers skill, just their ability to know the road rules. If a person failed that test, i don't think a disqualification of their licence would be necessary, just have to learn the rules, then sit again.

I would be interested to hear you guys express yourself on this subject, especially what the older drivers think about something like this coming into effect?

Jim

[ClairBear]

I agree with Pretender's post, and would like to add it annoys me that anyone who drives a modded car is labelled a hoon.

When it comes up in discussion that I belong to car clubs I get comments that infer I drive like a hoon simply because of my involvement. One guy said to me 'so on these cruises, you stop once in a while and do what.... burnouts and circle work?' I replied 'I am not going to dignify that stupid question with an answer.'

C.

[trepaul]

why do p platers find the fact that they are inexperienced drivers such a bitter pill to swallow? we've all been there and done it? suck it up, build a bridge. of course there are good drivers and bad drivers at all ages, but nothing beats experience for making a good driver.

[Outlaw Torn]

damm strait trepaul. Very well put. As for an answer, i don't know, not meaning to brag but i accepted the fact that i wasn't an experienced driver.

[ucwepn]

ok lets just say there are good and bad drivers in all age groups and leave it at that.

We were all P platers once and didn't some guy say, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"?

[VS Omega]

I'm sure we've all had bad experiences with P platers "hooning" about, and I'm also sure we've all had bad experiences with oldies failing to look, driving dangerously slow etc.

A plate on someones car doesn't necessarily make them a bad driver, remember not everyone gets their licence when they're 18.. some people in their 30s are on P plates (nothing wrong with that) and I bet most of them are great drivers (but I also bet amongst them there are some shockers).. you get this with everything in life.. people with born skill and people with experience versus people who don't easily gain skill and people without experience.. in everything..

Something interesting to think about.. in the V8s yesterday a young gun won his first V8 supercar race defeating all the older much more experienced drivers in dare I say a Ford of all cars.. now if that doesn't show that experience isn't all there is to driving than I don't know what does..

Actually I don't know what I'm on about.. feel free to completely ignore this post

[DavidPartay]

Or it could be said that the young gun has a death wish and pushes his car almost beyond its limits .

I see more fully licensed drivers do stupid things than I see P platers - the biggest things being not indicating and not looking. At least on the freeway 90% of the P platers stay in the left hand lane doing the right thing by the law - I wish I could say the same about 99.999% of fully licensed drivers.

Not to mention the odd idiot driving a truck. Overtaking on the two lane section uphill on the freeway? What happens? They bog down the traffic in both lanes to 50km/h, causing a traffic jam for the rest of peak hour and beyond.

All it takes is ONE vehicle. I've seen two incidents where an idiot in a truck has jumped into the right-hand lane going uphill on the big dipper at Wahroongah, heading northbound - slowing the traffic to 40km/h in all three lanes.

As far as I'm concerned and from my own experience and observation, there are just as many fully licensed idiots as there are P plate idiots and truck driving idiots. I've learned to deal with that, fortunately as I'm under 25 but no longer on my Ps I'm no more of a target for the police than the next fully licensed driver - in fact, I'm less so because I don't draw attention to myself.

The one thing that really gets me though is when people try to merge lanes when there is somebody right next to them? It's happened to me two or three times, and all those incidents I was in a big bright red Hyundai Getz with the lights on, how much effort does it take to simply turn your head 30 degrees and look out of the corner of your eye? All those three incidents involved fully licensed drivers on the freeway who seemed incapable of looking where they were going and predicting how their driving attitude would affect the traffic behind them and around them.

why do p platers find the fact that they are inexperienced drivers such a bitter pill to swallow? we've all been there and done it? suck it up, build a bridge. of course there are good drivers and bad drivers at all ages, but nothing beats experience for making a good driver.

I think you're misunderstanding the point. P platers are being hounded because of a few bad apples. It's nothing to do with a lack of experience, I know that most P platers (myself when I was one) understand that they lack the experience of a portion of older drivers on the road.

But this does NOT infer that ALL P platers are worse drivers than ALL fully licensed drivers - and I'm talking about P platers under 25 here. Quoting inexperience and trying to pin in it on all P platers is a blatant show of arrogance and ignorance to anything but what the media tells you is right. I'm on the road 2 1/2 hours every day minimum, I see everything that goes on around me in peak hour and other traffic. I have friends who have written off cars, and I have friends who know how NOT to write off their cars - myself included. I'm sure there are plenty of capable and incapable drivers on this forum.

Don't be in too much of a hurry to put labels on everybody. It only causes more problems and is where the government is getting everything wrong.

[vt1538]

I would of thought that most of the problems with drivers is the fact that you get into a habit of doing something the wrong way. So if you are taught incorrectly this will stay with for your whole driving career unless you can identify the problem & take steps to fix it.
Only perfect practice makes perfect.

[DavidPartay]

That's exactly right.

Although I think not indicating is a matter of laziness and apathy. It doesn't take THAT much effort to flick your pinky finger.

[NOGEN 3]

Totally agree with pretender- u either can or cant drive-regardless of age, and experience and a good teacher does count for a lot....

[ucwepn]

In the old days P platers in VIC could not exceed 80km/h and had to stay in the left lane always unless turning right.

Perhaps if P platers keep getting caught doing things they should recieve an 80km/h limit for a 2nd offence (loss of licence) LOL

[DavidPartay]

Keep in mind that if a P plater is going to do 110km/h down a 60km/h street, having a 80km/h legal restriction imposed on him is NOT going to stop him speeding by that amount. It'll only slow him down when police are around. The idiotic new car laws introduced in NSW didn't stop idiots crashing cars at 150km/h, it did NOTHING but screw over the people doing the right thing.

[Bax]

Good to see, I like these topics.

Im curious as to see why the big guns against p platers haven't posted in here just yet.

Im not choosing sides, as im no longer either, but I do fall closer to the p platers.

Anyway, its obvious to me that generalisations aren't fair on anybody.
We have all seen our share of accidents, bad driving or simply hoon type behavior, unfortunately 90% of the time the P platers get the coverage.
And sadly it is a problem. We have the worst age for Driving, which comes back to insurance and everything. That’s why our insurance is through the roof. That’s why we can't drive high performance cars. Because theres a few people out of a whole bunch that’s created a nasty image for us. Making us all look like imcompetent fools that can do burnouts and speed.

Just so happens I nearly had my first accident on Saturday night. I was driving some mates too and from parties. As we were heading back home I turned right around a corner at an intersection, where a lady, approx 40-50 years old decided to forget the "with care" part of "turn left at any time"
She proceeded to come across, her brand new car vs my 500 dollar corolla- as she grew closer, I merged lanes and sat on the horn. There were literally millimeters in it. If I had not taken action I would have gotten cleaned up for somebody elses mistake.

In summary, I hate generalisations, I hate fitting into a group of people of which I don't belong in and I hate being told that I'm not a good driver/ experienced driver/ responsible driver. Sometimes people need to look at themselves before they can judge other people.

[helay39]

heres a story for you

i was in a woolys car park about to reverse out of my parking spot
there was a guy id say in his mid 30's about to walk past the back of my car which i had seen him coming and was letting him walk past before reversing
he stopped looked at me i told him to go past hes right and he says to me
oh i seen the p plate so i wasnt sure if u seen me

just becasue u have a p plate on your car means nothin
if i was oover 25 i would only have to be on my L's for 3 weeks and id have my licence

im 19 on green P's (nsw) ive been involved in 3 accidents in the time of having my licence all caused by so callled "EXPERIENCED" drivers in there 30's because they made a stupid mistake of pulling out when it wasnt safe

just because u dont have a p plate in ur window doesnt make you a good driver so stop ear bashing for it

[Morgasshk]

I'm on my opens!!!

Yay!

Sorry, just had to say that...

I also have had half my close friends lose their P's and be suspended, some of them twice....

I have also had a majority of my near misses with older and supposedly "experienced" drivers... IMHO, a vast majority of younger drivers these days genuinely enjoy driving as much as they can and therefore build a hell of a lot more klms than people are led to believe... Whereas majority of 25-70 y.o drivers avoid as much as possible due to petrol costs etc....

But then there is arguments for and against on all cases... I still think the stats are dodgily prepared and sourced...

[helay39]

have these people who provide these statistics ever stoped to realise as the years go by more and more teen agers get there p's
of course driving statistics are guna get higher wit the p plate population getting higher

statistics are cr@p

[vt1538]

have these people who provide these statistics ever stoped to realise as the years go by more and more teen agers get there p's
of course driving statistics are guna get higher wit the p plate population getting higher

statistics are cr@p

This makes no sense at all. What about all those that get off there Ps moving into the open class. And you may as well say that most people between 25 & 55 are on an open licence. There would be no where near as many p plate drivers as open.

[Bax]

I don't think they are crap, we could have 100 P platers driving on the roads one week and 10 million the next.

But we're in the most accidents, thats why the statistics are there.

As much as I'm against all the high insurance prices etc, I'm kind of glad that it is there. There is no sweeter site than to see some young hoon write off his car, only to say he has no insurance.