New Queensland P-Plate laws

[Wombat]

Ok, I'm 42...P-plate laws don't affect me...but....

How stupid are they going to be?

The new laws mean under 25's are banned from V8's, turbocharged vehicles, and modified cars.

I assume none of these lawmakers have driven even a standard 6 cylinder late model Commodore or Falcon? They'll go quite well enough to get you into trouble...as a matter of fact, they go harder than most V8's of twenty years ago.

Another stupid point is the "public face" they have (literally) wheeled out in front of the cameras for a nice emotive touch. His name is Shem Aitkin, and is in a wheelchair after a high speed crash in a turbocharger car with a friend who died.
This naive young man is being played for all he is worth by the government. He actually said tonight on the news "We were in a turbocharged high performance car, he was under 25, if these new laws had been in, I wouldn't be in a wheelchair and the accident wouldn't have happened".
Now how do I say this tactfully? No...no, I can't, so I'll just say it: "What bullshit!". Does he honestly think that having a turbo or not would have made a difference when you smack a light pole at 100km/hr or more? What if they had been driving a non-modified Ecotec VS, say, and had the same accident? What would the government want to ban then?

I really feel for you younger guys starting out...but as I said, they haven't noticed how hard a bog stock Commodore can accelerate...

edit: it just struck me...does buying a standard car from a dealer who has put an "option pack" on it of a spoiler and mags constitute "modified"? That are casting as pretty wide net by just saying "modified", aren't they? My son is about to buy a second car, a used turbo-diesel Hilux ute...he'd better watch himself...that "turbo" in the governments eyes obviously makes it a road burning high performance death machine! After all, we all know that the only cars with turbos are all dangerous high performance cars...oh...better not let the government know about Puegoet and Volkswagen turbo-diesels...and most diesel four wheel drives...and those tiny slow little "Smart" cars...and numerous other slow-as-a-wet-week cars from over the years which use the turbo for mainly fuel economy and to squeeze more power out of a small capacity engine...that kind of thing might make them have to think, and we can't have that...

[89vncommy]

Umm .. Not sure, but I know in NSW when they bought in this law that all Turbo Diesel cars were OK for them to drive... Might be different for you guys tho...

Also things like the Suzuki Cupacino and Daihatsu thing, that are both turbos are OK for them to drive...

To be totally honest, I can see the point to the laws.. I remember when I was learning to drive, we didn't have all the turbo options, all the V8's and performance cars and we grew up fine.. Why do you need such high performance cars to learn to drive in...

One of the guys I worked with, when he just got his P's he bought a Mitsubishi FTO. And he seemed to think that because he had a sports car, that his 2 years of driving, and him driving a sports car meant that he had better driving skills then me... At this stage I was not only a car driver, but a motorcycle driver with 10 years experience, and some defensive driving courses under my belt... But he was serious.. And that is the problem with these kids... Give them something that is AWD (WRX’s, Skylines etc.) or performs and they think they can handle it

There have been restrictions on motorcycles for ages, and no one complains about them... Why ... Because they are there to keep you safe... And not only to protect you, it is to protect your family that could be wiped out by these young drivers that think they can drive high performance cars and think the streets are their race tracks...

I am sure if that kid in the wheel chair was actually your kid, and instead of him being the drive he was a pedestrian or a victim of crime you would probably think differently.. But I don't say this to start a fight, but only point out there are 2 ways you can look at everything....

[Bax]

Interesting, so under 25 year olds aren't allowed to drive turbo vehicles?

Starting when?

Looks like I'll have to sell my car and buy a charade. That's crazy

[89vncommy]

If they do the same as in NSW.. If you can prove you had the car before the law came in, it is OK for you to drive it...

I think also if you can prove it is your only family car, you can still drive it as you state that making you buy another car will cause financial difficulty...

[Shortstuff]

Wouldn't the laws just apply to new drivers? Seems a bit harsh if all under 25's with turbo, V8, etc have to sell their cars!!

Edit: 89vncommy beat me to that one!

[90VN55]

what i want to know is what happens if u own a v8 or a "turbocharged" car. what happens when the laws come in. do u have to sell your car?

edit: u both beat me im a slow typer

and what do they class as modified?

[89vncommy]

I believe that if you own it already it is OK. Modified I think meant that any car that required modifications to be passed by an engineer... But I did not look into the laws fully as it did not affect me...

[WAGON MAN]

It applies from July 1 2007, and only to people who get their P's on or after 01/07/2007

[90VN55]

anyone no if lowering a car is a "modification"

[90VN55]

It applies from July 1 2007, and only to people who get their P's on or after 01/07/2007

i can get my p's at the start of next year so none of this matters to me?

[hakhawk]

nup, you should be fine, as long as they dont bring it in early.

"modified" cars, should only apply to modifications to the engine.

[J_D]

I tend to agree that p platers shouldnt be allowed to drive powerful cars, that being said they can still get into plenty of trouble in almost any modern car with fuel injection.

When I was on my P,s this type of thing wasnt a big problem as young people generally werent as affluent as they are now. Neither me nor any of my friends at the time could afford anything powerful as they were too expensive, but now I see lots of young people driving XR6 turbos, Skylines, WRX,s, etc. The first car with any kind of power I owned was my NXR with 105kw when I was 22 which isnt that powerful and it was FWD anyway so I couldnt go sideways around corners.

I got into plenty of trouble in that car but I never overstepped my own limits, in my opinion I think the passenger curfew will have a positive effect as I always had people "egging me on" as soon as I got a sports car, but I never got drawn into doing things other people told me to do. I think a lot of teenagers get killed because they are trying to impress their mates and bite off more than they can chew. Ill bet that the guy on the news in the wheelchair wasnt telling his mate to stop, he was probably telling him to go faster. If it was his friend he would know how that person drives and still made the choice to get in the car with him. People always change their opinion as soon as the shoe is on the other foot, he probably thought it wouldnt happen to him.

[NVE_069]

Yeh im sure its only applys for the ppl that get it on or after the law comes in the rest are safe. but it does suk tho, who are thay to say wot u can an cant buy wot a load of crock S*$T

my 2 cents

[wes_v8]

yea in nsw, modifications only apply to the engine, and turbo-deisels are fine cept for 1 which i can't think of at the moment....i do agree with both sides

[NVE_069]

yeh i do agree with both as both have there ups an downs, but it all comes down to the ppl that have done the wrong things that really made it harder for the new starters?

[NateGL]

hehehe i gav up reading the rest aftr bout the 3rd post so correct me if im rong

hehe aprently in victoria with the new law's coming in its just power to weight ratio 125kw at the wheels max... and yea cant b modded with turbo n stuff but with that said u r aloud to drive a stoke standard performance car.. so i cant drive say a modded nissane 180sx with 180kw at the wheels but i wud b aloud to drive a stoke latest ferrari n it b legal to me thats a bit wak.. also aprently u cant hav passangers aftr a certain time next yr in vic on ur P's (this law only applys to the ppl who get their P's aftr it has came into effect)

i duno if wat i said is correct but just things ive heard from ppl old n young saying bout the new vic laws for next yr...

[stylin_vr2]

hmm.. i was gonna move bak 2 qld but think ill stay in melb.. lol.. welcome to the shit that is the 21st century.. and AMEN 2 u mate! lol. and 2 any1 that knows a lot about the new p plate laws in vic.. what would happen if someone who had a yr left on their p's gets their license suspended?? like if they were good n didnt get it cancelled would they be able to boycot the new laws??? cuz thats a crock of shit if i eva saw one!! grr

[stylin_vr2]

but i gotta admit i do kinda agree with the not being allowed to drive highly powerful cars.. someone whos had their license less than 12 months cant seriously be able to control it as well as they should be!! meh. thats my 2 cents anyway

[NateGL]

i doubt if u get suspended on ur P's the new law's will kick in on u.. coz u hav already legit got ur P's yrs b4 the new laws.. but u might prob get like the hooligan plates if those are even true n coming out...

[NVE_069]

i think i have read most of it rite but for all us who have our p's now we wont be affected? correct me if im in plz but im hopen i read rite lol heres the link cop an paste it

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/qt/LTASinfo.nsf/ReferenceLookup/young_drivers_fact_sheet_provisional.pdf/$file/young_drivers_fact_sheet_provisional.pdf

[Wombat]

I dont know about what "fine print" if any, will be attached to these laws, all I know is that Premier Beattie and his transport minister have had thier smiling mush's all over the TV, simply saying "P-platers under 25 will be banned from owning V8's, turbocharger vehciles, and modified vehicles"...full stop, no qualifications. The RACQ has come out saying it is a great idea.
I do realise something has to be done, but a proper driver training system is the only answer, though I realise a simple ban is a lot cheaper for the taxpayer. Sometimes the right thing to do isn't the easiest thing to do.

My point is this: I'm sure we all see enough people doing stupid things in cheap barely-modded (maybe a set of mags) Hyundais and Honda Civics without thier having to spring for a turbo or a V8.

Practically all the young peoples' road deaths around my area over the last few years have been in normal everyday cars. Dead is dead, and if you do something stupid or illegal and smack a light pole, your body isn't going to care what engine you had up the front.

edit: This is a cut and paste direct from that website mentioned above. Looks like there will be a "restricted list" of cars. Should be interesting. Most interesting and pertinent for people here will be "what about turbo VL Commodores?". They won't put out as much power I would imagine as a new Commodore 190 Alloytec...so will they be on the "evil list"...?
What type of vehicles will be restricted?
Vehicles such as V8 or turbo charged cars, or
modified vehicles will be restricted from use by
provisional licence holders.
A list restricted vehicles will be on the Queensland
Transport website www.transport.qld.gov.au and
available through licence issuing centres from late
2006.
When do power restrictions apply?
This restriction will apply for the full provisional
licence period (P1 and P2 stages).
What happens if I breach vehicle power
restrictions?
A penalty will apply. Details will be determined
closer to the implementation date.

As you can see, the "list" won;t be available until late 2006....too bad if you are coming out of your learners period then and looking to buy a nice car...you had better hold off and see what the powers that be say you should be able to own...

Oh, and my beef isn't about having a go at the guy in the wheelchair or not feeling sorry for him, because I do feel for him...my problem is that he is blatantly being used under false pretences as a propoganda tool...no-one can honestly say they agree with his emotive statement that if his friend hadn't had a turbocharged car, the accident wouldn't have happened and he wouldn't be in a chair...as I said, plenty of people do silly things in normal cars, and the impact at speed with an immovable object is the same no matter what you've got up front...

[sircruisealotVS]

this whole thing is nothing but a political gimick to make beatie look the goods in the peoples eye (remember election coming up very soon). it doesnt take a "high performance vehicle" to kill someone or cause damage.
if they were at all serious about the whole young driver death toll they would impliment more effective measures.
like say, manditory amount of hours logged on L's before you can sit for P's (like NSW), more difficult/intensive P's testing, defensive driving course passed before you can be issued your P's, MOVE THE AGE LIMIT UP from 17 (c'mon, who here was mature enough at 17??), etc.
but no, these things would cost the government money, cant do that....just ban all the naughty turbos,v8's and modified cars, that will make it all better.
i mean dont get me wrong, i think restrictions should apply for how much power to weight your car can has when you only have a provisional licence (just to cover all bases, this wouldnt fix the problem alone), but your not going to fix anything by going out and baning all v8's and and modded cars (as said, some old v8's dont even come close to a bog stock commodore or falcon these days).
...it doesnt matter if its a excel or a skyline you can still end up killing yourself or someone else.
one of my friends on his first night of getting his P's rolled an '85 hilux going too fast around a corner (and anyone who's driven an ol' hilux knows these things dont have any balls)...it was quite simply my mates fault for not knowing how to drive responsibly.
no one was seriously hurt, but we were just damn lucky and it made me think twice ill tell you. (i was about another 3 months off my P's at the time and i was a very sensible driver once i did get them- because of this experience)
these laws arent goin to affect me, im past my time on P's, but i almost laughed when i read about them...

[TheForgotten]

well... what about people who have been of their P's for a few years? I can point out at least 30 people almost every day who can't drive safely or responsibly, and they can drive anything with an engine.
It doesn't need to be fast or powerful to kill people. Like already said, the answer isn't banning certain engines, but training new drivers, and getting rid of this "I am a god" mentality they seem to have. Nothing will ever diminish peer pressure, but we need to find a way to get into those young maleable melons - we didn't think we were bullet-proof, they shouldn't feel pressured into driving at insane speeds. for uneducated or inexperienced drivers, it's a sheer fluke that they can do stupid stuff and live to tell the tale

[smokey_dj]

these new laws just keep coming and coming theres a new one soon to hit vic the modification laws (with no restriction to driver age on the veichle)

anyway as ive said b4 its not always about just being on your p's

correct me if im wrong on this one but i love the cruise i have an addiction to get out there and cruise cruise and cruise

like 23rd jan 04 i got my p's with my vn v6 (didnt want to go v8 straight away wanted to get use to my car and slowly pogress) at 125,865 on the clock legit kms

now i get really shitty when some older bloke comes upto me and goes pfft you got no experience your still on the p's buddy

to which i turn around and say how old are you if he says anything around 25 or under i just simply say mate ive pobly been on the rd in more conditions and more hours then you have

to date currently my car has done 313,894 now you do the math on average driving kms per annum

my mates got a statistics check done on me one boring w/e to see just what i had clocked up compared to yrs
ive dont more driving than someone thats been off there p's for 3 1/2 yrs which is funny as ive only done 2 1/2 yrs of drivign currently
and ive driven black ice snow dence fog (haha prinny hwy 4am about 2 months ago) heavy belting rain thunderstorms dangeroulsly high winds (night we got the tornado through dandenong) sleet blizzard freash storm glaring wet rds you name it ive driven it

so it doesnt always come down to how fast the car is or how old or experinced you are if youve done some serious kms you probly have more expeirence and better handling control thatn most older to work to the shops style drivers

its about common sence not common law

[jacko]

There's some good points posted. Like it's been said, and is exactly right, you dont need to have a powerful car to kill yourself. The bulk of the idiot drivers I see around my area are in Excels, Civics, Pulsars, etc. Granted, there are idiots in larger cars too, but it doesnt soley depend on what you drive thats going to get you into trouble. It's not like someone in a 4 cylinder car can't speed or drive wrecklessly. And not to mention many 'performance cars' have better safety systems in place than the average 4 cylinder - I know I'd feel safer behind the wheel of a performance car than a tiny little car..

What the government should really be focussing on is compulsory Defensive Driver courses for everyone before they gain their provisional license. One thing I do agree on with the new laws is the night time passenger restrictions, and the hazard perception testing.

My $0.02