this will explain why we take it to the streets

[calais_304]

please read the artical below and understand why so many young people hoon on the streets instead of simply going to the track, it's not easy in Brisbane....

Brisbane, Queensland – Lakeside Motor Racing Enthusiasts, Inc. made a submission to the Queensland State Government's Office of Urban Management this week requesting that a strategic plan be developed, as part of the south east Queensland Regional Plan, to address the burgeoning problems associated with 'hooning', trail-bikes and jet skis. The group says these problems are a direct result of a lack of dedicated motorsport infrastructure in the south east region. LMRE asks that Lakeside International Raceway be re-opened to ease the burden on communities north of the Brisbane river.



LMRE president Ian Milton said,

"We support the objectives of the Government's anti-hooning laws, but legislation is not enough. We have to give these people, young and old alike, the option to enjoy their sport in a safe environment without being a nuisance to others."



"The South East Regional Plan provides the opportunity for the State Government, Councils and communities to come together and address this issue before it gets out of control."

SEQRP Submission cover letter to Hon Terry Mackenroth:



Dear Minister,

I write to you to consider including a strategic plan for creating and managing motorsport zones in the South East Queensland Regional Plan.



We seek your assistance to address the unnecessary conflict arising in our communities when the noise associated with amateur motorsport, of any kind, is too close to residential property. In particular, we refer to the proliferation of reports in the media of ‘hooning’ by cars and motorcycles, trail-bikes and personal watercraft (jet skis).



Whilst we deplore the vindictive nature of the media label ‘hoon’, Lakeside Motor Racing Enthusiasts, Inc. supports the State Government’s ‘anti-hooning’ legislation. However, we are certain that this legislative strategy will fail if it is not supported by a plan to provide people with the choice to do the right thing.



There is simply no safe alternative for amateur motorsport enthusiasts on the north-side and south-side of Brisbane. Currently, a young person living between the Brisbane River and the Sunshine Coast is expected to drive over 2 hours to Ipswich to enjoy their sport, which just won’t happen no matter how severe the penalties become.



More importantly, we fear more young people will unnecessarily die on our roads and the situation is racing toward a crisis-point as the population increases. The marketplace is demonstrating to us quite clearly that more people want motorsport as part of their lives with sales of high-performance cars, trail-bikes and jet skis at record highs.



We desperately need more facilities for motorsport. In the past 20 years we’ve seen the population triple and yet there is only one full-service motorsport zoned area in Queensland at Ipswich. For people living in the west, the Willowbank precinct has successfully satisfied most popular forms of on-road motorsport, particularly when considering young drivers, with it’s drag strip and road circuit providing both day and night time options. This is important to consider as most ‘hooning’ complaints occur after dark.



The primary reason for a purpose-built motor racing circuit of any kind is to provide safety for the public, as well as the participants, by separating the activity from the public environment. So far, local government bodies have failed their communities miserably with their Not-In-My-Backyard (NIMBY) attitude. Council’s have found it too easy to pass the buck and demonize the individuals, rather than find a real solution.



We are calling upon the State Government to take control of this issue so that local councils can't continue to allow residential developers to encroach upon pre-existing motorsport facilities. I’ve read Pine Rivers Shire Council (PRSC) files from Lakeside neighbours and all of them say something like, “I know the race track was here first, but…”.



At present, private enterprise cannot entertain the idea of developing a motorsport facility simply because the local bureaucratic battle to get the required zoning would send anyone broke, insane or both.



We are not asking for money, we simply want suitable areas to be zoned for motorsport as part of the SEQ Regional Plan. In order to be successful, these areas can’t be 100 kilometres from the CBD and they must be available at night. We implore you to separate motorsport activity from residential areas. This will have the immediate effect of decreasing stress in the community and increasing safety for everyone.



With the Lakeside complex closed by the PRSC, law enforcement has lost a valuable tool as police officers are unable to make a logical suggestion to offenders to, “take it to the track”, because there isn't one. We believe the anti-hooning legislation is the stick, but a carrot hasn't been provided yet. As Police Minister Judy Spence was quoted in a recent Courier Mail article, "Hooning is dangerous and there is no place for this behaviour on our roads". Well, we agree absolutely, but there's no place for it anywhere else either!


We are not asking anything new, we just want to see the same logic that has been successfully applied to other social issues, such as skateboarding, applied to the problem of hooning. If there’s no park, the kids will play in the street.


Lakeside Motor Racing Enthusiasts, Inc. is requesting that a mixed-use motorsport precinct, similar to Ipswich, be identified and zoned ‘Motorsport Only’ by the State Government for both the Southern and Northern Regional Organisation of Councils.



Specifically, we suggest that the State Government work with the Pine Rivers Shire Council to re-open the existing motorsport facility of Lakeside International Raceway and possibly extend the zoning to a boundary that would be able to accommodate all forms of on and off road motorsport.



In closing, I invite you to review the attached submission to the South East Queensland Regional Plan to recognize Lakeside International Raceway as the logical candidate for a motorsport zone for the Northern Regional Organisation of Councils.



Regards,



Ian Milton

President

Lakeside Motor Racing Enthusiasts, Inc.


there you have it people, our government won't help they'd rather just fine people and get more money instead of saving/helping young people.

this letter was done in 2005, still nothing has been done about this.

[Julie]

With all due respect, I think thats a load of crap making excuses. Even if there is a motorsport facility put up there there will still be the same tools taking it to the street. They'll then use the excuse "We can't afford to race on the track". We've got WSID here, and street racing is as bad as ever, if not worse.

In saying that though, I'm not saying you guys shouldn't get a dragway, I'm just saying that just because you don't have one local thats no excuse to take it to the streets.

[minux]

Im with Julie, there is no excuse for idiotic behaviour on the roads.

[calais_304]

With all due respect, I think thats a load of crap making excuses.

how is this an excuse? we had tracks, people moved in, tracks were closed, the council thought it was better to throw everyone out onto the street then erect a sound barrier.

Even if there is a motorsport facility put up there there will still be the same tools taking it to the street. They'll then use the excuse "We can't afford to race on the track".

but isn't that better then every tool taking it to the street, isn't 1 life saved better then none?
and i really don't think it's to expensive to go on the skid pan is it?

We've got WSID here, and street racing is as bad as ever, if not worse.

ok think about how many tracks have been closed due to residential development. theres your answer. theres 2 i know of in brisbane that have been shut down, the ones on the goldcoast have been shut down, theres non up the sunshine coast, do you think that could be the cause? because i believe it is.

[calais_304]

Im with Julie, there is no excuse for idiotic behaviour on the roads.

so where can you do it?(if theres no tracks), please answer that for me.

[minux]

so where can you do it?(if theres no tracks), please answer that for me.

Why do you need to do anything? Why can't you enjoy your car on the streets?

It isn't illegal to run up to the speed limit in a controlled manner, as long as there isnt excessive noise, why can't you cruise on the highway?

What is it exactly you NEED to do?

[calais_304]

Why do you need to do anything? Why can't you enjoy your car on the streets?

It isn't illegal to run up to the speed limit in a controlled manner, as long as there isnt excessive noise, why can't you cruise on the highway?

What is it exactly you NEED to do?

i need to put my car through it's paces, i get off on going fast espicially through corners, and the feeling of having a good close run with something just as powerful really gets the blood racing. I need to be able to have fun in a safe enviroment.

sorry im not a cruiser i can't handle putting at stupidly slow speeds.

simply if i was like you i would have bought a 4cyl even a scooter but im an enthusist, i love a fast powerful car and i love seeing if i can tame that fast powerful car.

up in QLD it is illegal if you do it to quick (don't ask im still confused).

I spose you could say i have a lead foot and a fetish for speed is that so wrong?

[smokey_dj]

not sticking up for anyone just defining a difference

public rds you got lights to get the race going

track you got lights to get the race going but a time board to tell you what you did
and no hwy car at the end of the strip with a radar gun lol

as long as ive got drag to the limit off the line (not in stupid areas or heavy traffic) thats good enugh for me but stll a time would be nice

[Ripcell]

my 0.02 dollars

to all the ppl who dont like hearing about hooning, so what, get over it. why can the government spend money on making facilities for people who like sport, or making pools for ppl who like swimming, why cant they make a facility for me to go hoon?? why? someone answer that. go on

so untill i have somewhere i can go hoon, i'll destroy my tires on he road in the SAFEST places possible NOT busy areas or back streets, me and my mates drive like an hour or more outta the burbs to go out to the country where the only thing we can harm is a few cows to tear up the roads where there is no one to harm but ourselves. and if we didnt want to take that risk we wouldnt go.

my point is im prepared to drive over an hour to go have fun, so that meand im prepared to go somewhere closer even if i have to PAY for it.

so its time for everyone here to cut the bullshit whinge whinge we dont condone that crap, and maybe start putting energy into making somewhere to go to do it safely. we hoon because its fun and we enjoy it. stop telling people to stop playing footy on a weekend, thats their hobby, this is ours.

its totally a fun factor, theres nothing better than burning up rubber going sideways. i love it, im sure everyone who does it also does it for that reason.

so insted of stopping us doing it. use some of the huge tax u make from fuel and make somewhere safe for us to go, this puts us at a lesser risk and more importantly the PUBLIC

[calais_304]

finally someone with sence

[J_D]

I totally agree with you heeno. Here in Ipswich the hooning dropped DRAMATICALLY when Willowbank raceway was opened. People here used to drag down the main street doing over 100kph every night. Now it hardly happens at all. It hasnt totally ceased, there will always be that element that dont care but the situation has improved dramatically. I will admit I get that urge to put the foot down but public roads arent the place to do it and I will be building a race car in the future so I can have some fun in a car instead of being restricted all the time.

[Hairy Eater]

I think public liability insurance was a big problem causing a lot of sports to close .... for some reason stupid people think that Motorsport is a type of hooning ... most toffy nosed councilors and stuck up MLA's seem to only consider golf and tennis ( poofter sports ) as the main sports for everyone .... they don't want to consider the average person's sport... maybe the rich developer is just waiting to get his hands on the closed motor sport land .... just to make a huge profit and maybe a bit under table kick-back to his buddies....

[J_D]

I think public liability insurance was a big problem causing a lot of sports to close

Public liability is BS. Why cant they say you choose to do it, you take the risk. If I go out on a track and crash thats my own fault. If someone crashes into me I sue that person not the track owner. The problem is too many bleeding heart judges awarding payments to idiots who should be told tough shit you made the bed now you lie in it.

.... for some reason stupid people think that Motorsport is a type of hooning ... most toffy nosed councilors and stuck up MLA's seem to only consider golf and tennis ( poofter sports ) as the main sports for everyone .... they don't want to consider the average person's sport... maybe the rich developer is just waiting to get his hands on the closed motor sport land .... just to make a huge profit and maybe a bit under table kick-back to his buddies....

Thats why we have a shit load of golf courses and next to no motorsport/dirt bike facilities. Where I live there is bush land over the next street and most people have a trail bike they ride in the bushland. Its illegal but why should it be, they arent hurting anyone. Its only a matter of time before they turn it all into estate housing so some developer can make a shit load of money and then there will be nothing for the kids to do so they turn to grafitti, vandalism and the like.

[minux]

Public liability is BS. Why cant they say you choose to do it, you take the risk. If I go out on a track and crash thats my own fault. If someone crashes into me I sue that person not the track owner. The problem is too many bleeding heart judges awarding payments to idiots who should be told tough shit you made the bed now you lie in it.

Eventually the track owner will be sued, it will follow a chain reaction.

Australia has beocme too americanised hence 99% of the problem. Hell 20 years ago you crashed into someone you swapped numbers bought a slab and waited for the bill from the insurer to come. Now you worry about being dragged through court because you broke the persons back in 168 places and they can no longer fart correctly yet find the ability to go out clubbing...

[stocky]

Eventually the track owner will be sued, it will follow a chain reaction.

exactly. even if someone crashes because of something stupid that they did themselves, they will look for someone else to blame, and of noone else was involved, theyll blame the conditions of the track and sue the owner

[J_D]

Eventually the track owner will be sued, it will follow a chain reaction.

The track owner will be sued because the people suing see it as a lottery and their highest chance of a payout is from the person with the most money/insurance.


The problem is we have become a blameless society. "Its never my fault its always someone elses." Why cant people just put their hand up and say "I fu*ked up". Its always "I didnt know I was speeding officer" "I didnt know the coffee was hot" "I didnt think smoking caused cancer" grow a brain you idiot!

[Ripcell]

shit like that can be solved with documents, waivers, legal bullshit, its as simple as someone soing it, im sure it can be done

[minux]

shit like that can be solved with documents, waivers, legal bullshit, its as simple as someone soing it, im sure it can be done

In a court of law they can always be beaten...if they couldn't companies like indoor go-karts etc wouldn't need public liability.

[J_D]

why cant we have race tracks like the Nurburgring in Germany, you just rock up to the toll gates throw your money in and blast around the track as fast as you want. If they did that it would get almost all of it off the streets as you could do it any time you wanted to, not when they choose to open the track.

[azkwazere]

Its sooo simple.... sign a liablity Form.... takes all responsibility off everyone else. You crash and die, bad luck... done.

If i had a place that was local, cheap and legal... i'd do my hooning there. Simple... It makes so much sence. This sin't ana excuse its a point. Its not saying because there is no place to legally drag... were gonna do it on the streets... HA HA HA its saying, beacuse there isnt a place, its getting done on the streets.

Why does everyone think that brute force, tougher laws and being ********s will solve everything? uthority blows somethimes.

oh yeah... side note to all those with the "getting up to the speed limit as fast as possible" ... whats that? did someone say anti hooning laws? if id ont hit 4 gears by the time im at 60kmh, i have a cop up my arse. You cant do crap without looking like a hoon.

If you take a corner fast.... i call it driving, the guy writing me a ticket calls it hooning. I get a launch happening at the lights, i call it driving, copper calls it drag racing. etc. etc.

minux.. your going through all the turbo'ing etc... you beafing you engine just to hit the speed lilit as fast as possible? to cruise the hwy? no, you want to have a steet machine.. mabye even race it at a race way.... something those poor people dont have.

Lets all think about this before we have to hear: "Drive responsible on the roads and that should be all the driving you need"

Im just waiting for some one to add: "only P platers want this sort of shit"

done.

aZk.

[MikesVT]

"Build it, and they will come".

At least if you have an avenue for people to get the 'hooning' out of their system, to let them experience that rush, they will have an option. ALL of my friends who drive agree with me on this one, If there was a place for us to go, we would. There isn't so what are we supposed to do? wrap ourselves in plastic and all drive electricity powered toyotas?

It's just stupid how the government is willing to give so much money to someone to paint trees blue! (If anyone remembers that from a couple years back at the mcg, didnt go through with it thank God!), and also from all the money they raise from speed cameras/speeding fines/ other infringments, you'd think that at least once a month (at the very bare minimum!) or something they would open up a few places where people can go and have some fun in a SAFE and CONTROLLED enviroment. Untill then, we're going to have people on the streets doing this kind of thing.
Sure, there will still be some who do it, but if there are alternative avenues and they continue to use public roads, I'm 100% for having their cars taken off them for a LONG LONG time with VERY big fines.

And minux, as you said before, 'whats the need to do it' or something along those lines? Are you telling me that you dont get the slightest rush when you give your car all its got? Are you telling me that NEVER in your driving experience have you been tempted to see what it can do? You have NEVER lit up the back tyres AT ALL?

Sorry if that wasnt very coherent, I was a bit distracted while writing it.

[semi]

As a few people have said, theres too much of a 'blame someone else' culture in our society, and although its not as bad as in the US, its fast getting there. People need to start taking responsibility for their own actions. People understand the risks of sriving your car to the limit, and the risks of eating fast food, and the risks of smoking and etc etc, but when it comes back to bite them on the arse, they suddenly dont seem to remember this, and blame it on someone else.

The law needs to be changed so that the onus is on people participating in any sort of dangerous activity. We all know though, that this isnt going to happen, and judges and the like have no choice but to follow the law rather than their own common sense when dealing with these sorts of liability cases. I dont know first hand, but im sure that there are plenty of judges who have resided over these cases and been forced to go against common sense and award in favour of the whingers who knew the risks, and are now blaming others

[Pretender]

The letter in the first post is not a request to be "given" a motorsport venue it is requesting areas be zoned for such.
The major hurdle is getting the Councils to approve such an area within their shire. The State Government can only make recommendations to the Councils, they do not control the Shires.

Swimming Pools, skate parks etc are provided by the individual Councils to service the community. Why skate parks you may ask as only a small section of the community will utilise it. Well the majority of users are under the driving age (not all) and a local area for them to use is a smart move by the council. The typical age group for Graffitti Artists and Vandals is said to be
between 10 - 16 years old. There are older and younger people who are involved but this age group has the majority of offenders. No I'm not saying only skaters are guilty either. The Council sees a skate park as way of reducing the potential for criminal damage and thus reducing their costs in cleaning up the mess (well that's my local Council's view anyway). Do they work?, I have no idea but they give a lot of kids something to do which may stop one or two from offending, but only whilst they are at the park.
Tennis clubs and Golf courses are privately owned and other than approval from the Council for the zoning, Government of any sort plays no part other than to collect rates. Zoning for a sedate sport that has no impact beyond the property line are readily approved for obvious reasons.

There is a point or two coming I promise.

As for the insurance aspect, the law is the law and even if you sign a waiver accepting full resposibility, the owner of the venue will be responsible for any injury or death that occurs on their property. Unless the owner can prove beyond doubt that an incident was outside their control.
A Lawyer would ask " any speed limit signs posted?, Do you perform a full mechanical and safety check of all vehicles using the facility?, Do you check that all drivers are fully qualified to race vehicles at your facility? plus a hundred more with just one answer of "no" meaning the owner is held responsible as he did not ensure anything that happened was beyond his control. Thereby there is a need for public liability insurance which is very expensive. That means the facility would need to be privately owned as the Government or State would not pay the high fees and endure the wrath of the community for doing so.

Statements like " nobody has given us a place to go or things to do so we get bored and do bad shit, it's someone else's fault" strike me as rather sad and pathetic. Kids I can understand, to a degree, but in my opinion people who are old enough to drive really should have a more mature outlook than that childish cop out. Nobody owes you a Motorsport venue so instead of saying "why don't or why haven't they provided this for us?" why not get up and get out there and become involved in making it happen. Don't just sit back and complain because it hasn't been done for you.

Help to rally support for the venue yourself.

If you were unlucky enough to be involved in an accident, whilst hooning on public roads that resulted in the death of a friend, do you think their family would be fine if you told them "it's OK I take responsibility for my actions"? Would you be fine with that?
Perhaps once again it would be someone else's fault because they didn't build you a track.

If you say you are responsible then be just that and help build a track you can then enjoy with the proper support on hand if something does go wrong.

[minux]

And minux, as you said before, 'whats the need to do it' or something along those lines? Are you telling me that you dont get the slightest rush when you give your car all its got? Are you telling me that NEVER in your driving experience have you been tempted to see what it can do? You have NEVER lit up the back tyres AT ALL?

Sorry if that wasnt very coherent, I was a bit distracted while writing it.

On the road, no. I know what it can do, i do not need to prove it to myself everytime i am on the road.

[AirStrike]

Matt unless the tracks are free you still aint going to get everyone off the streets. Calder is about 20-30mins from my place yet why would I go?? Pay the rediculus $60 odd dollars they charge and get 3 runs because every man and his dog is there.
This is just an example as I just happily drive the hour and a bit to Heathcote. Costs less and get around 3 times the runs.
AirStrike