Thoughts on power restricting laws etc...

[Dylan VT]

Hi everyone.

I just thought I'd start up a discussion about the power restricting laws that have come about these last few years, because I know I have opinions I'd like to share, and I'm sure a lot of you do too.

As a lot of you would be aware, in N.S.W (not sure about other states) a P plater (red or green) is unable to drive cars that are V8's, turbocharged, or supercharged. Obviously, this law has come about to try and limit the amount of fast/careless driving done by P platers. I think it's a good idea that the government is trying to make younger drivers drive slower and more safely, but I think that these laws are on a tangent that just aggrivate people a lot more than make them drive more safely/slowly.

One of my arguments is that, it doesn't matter what kind of engine/modifications the car has - if a driver wants to drive their car fast, then they will.
Of course, an SS commodore is going to be able to reach higher speeds a lot faster, but doing 100km/h in a 50 zone in an SS, is basically the same as doing 100km/h in a 50 done in a Mitsubishi Mirage. They are both 50km/h over the speed limit, and they are both going to suffer immense amount of damage to the vehicle/persons in the vehicle if a collision occurs.

Thoughts? Let's hear 'em.

[Doubleshadow]

Insurance companies run extensive studies that you would be amazed their findings. For instance, it was found that drivers in red sport cars are more likely to be driving agressively, than say drives in green sports cars. The human psyche can be illogical sometimes.

And yes, I do believe the car we drive can influence our attitude in driving. When I am driving and I turn up my music loud, along with the deep growl of my engine, I can actual feel my attitude change. I am sure if I was driving a beat up VW Bug I would never get that urge. I would be trying to hussle on home to get that piece of shit off the street before I scrape someone and give them gangrene from the rust .

[CHANDLC]

They have it for motor bikes so why not cars, but at the same time I had a 99 AU V8 when I was still on my P plates and never had a problem with the law, yes i did get a few speeding tickets but i got them in my VS as well, but when we wanted to have some fun we just went out to a big flat off the streets and had our fun.

[Dylan VT]

It's obvious that if you have a big nice car, then you're going to want to drive more aggressively.

I notice that if I have certain Pantera songs on in my car, I can drive slightly more aggressively/more carelessly.

The car you're driving is obviously going to have a big influence on whether or not you want to drive fast, but I think that there are many people out there who do speed in regular cars because they can, and also because they can't get ahold of the power that they'd like to, so they just do their best with what they have.

I hate walking down the street at night time and seeing souped up early 90's model nissan pulsars just hooning around and making a lot of noise. I just think...if you saved your car money and souping up money, you could buy yourself a nice commodore!

[Lumps of cheese]

It's obvious that if you have a big nice car, then you're going to want to drive more aggressively.

Not true, i used to own a vt gen 3 berlina but i never felt the urge to put the foot down.
If anything, i was more careful!
Just because people own powerful cars doesn't nessecarily mean they are aggressive drivers, if you feel you want to drive aggressive in a powerful car then you shouldn't buy one.
I'm 28, have driven V8's since i've had my license(10 years) and never felt the need to push it any harder than normal.

[minux]

They have it for motor bikes so why not cars, but at the same time I had a 99 AU V8 when I was still on my P plates and never had a problem with the law, yes i did get a few speeding tickets but i got them in my VS as well, but when we wanted to have some fun we just went out to a big flat off the streets and had our fun.

Thats because your AU had the power to weight ratio that rivalled a Hyundai excel

[J_D]

Insurance companies run extensive studies that you would be amazed their findings. For instance, it was found that drivers in red sport cars are more likely to be driving agressively, than say drives in green sports cars. The human psyche can be illogical sometimes.

I would say it is mostly about the car people choose to drive as opposed to the car making them more agressive etc. A lot of the younger drivers out there buy a powerful car so they can do stupid stuff and then anyone with a powerful car or modified car gets a bad name.

Take suspension as an example, if you lower your car it improves the cars handling but the insurance company jacks up your premium. Its not the properties of the suspension they care about its the mentality of the driver that has taken a specific decision to increase the performance of the car, because people in modified cars have more crashes than people who dont drive modified cars.

[Dylan VT]

Not true, i used to own a vt gen 3 berlina but i never felt the urge to put the foot down.
If anything, i was more careful!
Just because people own powerful cars doesn't nessecarily mean they are aggressive drivers, if you feel you want to drive aggressive in a powerful car then you shouldn't buy one.
I'm 28, have driven V8's since i've had my license(10 years) and never felt the need to push it any harder than normal.

Well here we have yet another side to the argument.
People can say they want bigger cars just because they like the sound and it feels nice to be able to own a V8, and if you are a genuine person who owns a V8 for the love of cars, and not for the love of power, then you are at a disadvantage (if you're younger) because this opportunity has been ruined for you by the minority. There are plenty of P platers out there that want to drive safely.

I believe it's more about personal choice rather than the government trying to find ways to restrict the power.

What does everyone think about the ideasd floating around the government that they could make L platers in N.S.W have to get 100 hours of experience rather than 50?

[minux]

What does everyone think about the ideasd floating around the government that they could make L platers in N.S.W have to get 100 hours of experience rather than 50?

I think until they teach learners HOW TO DRIVE and not HOW TO PASS A TEST then we will still get idiots who can't drive on the roads. I would love to see a public initiative where there is a hotline to call in hoons, after 3 calls the said hoon is summonsed to court, also the 3 people who rang are sent to court also(face a fine if you don't show and hoon walks). I think this system can work and it would make ****wits think twice about driving like an idiot in front of people, as it stands now i just call my brother in law, he pays the drivers a visit, 8/10 times when you see them on the road again, they are driving in a much more safe manner.

[Dylan VT]

I think until they teach learners HOW TO DRIVE and not HOW TO PASS A TEST then we will still get idiots who can't drive on the roads. I would love to see a public initiative where there is a hotline to call in hoons, after 3 calls the said hoon is summonsed to court, also the 3 people who rang are sent to court also(face a fine if you don't show and hoon walks). I think this system can work and it would make ****wits think twice about driving like an idiot in front of people, as it stands now i just call my brother in law, he pays the drivers a visit, 8/10 times when you see them on the road again, they are driving in a much more safe manner.

So true. Being an L plater is more about meeting the criteria of the P's test, rather than being able to drive well.

My car is an auto, but I can drive manual very well, and I take pride in that. I think it should be compulsory to have at least a few lessons on manual, and be taught HOW TO DRIVE MANUAL rather than just be able to make the car go and stop. I'm talking engine braking and the whole deal.

I also have a problem with the idea that they ned to gain twice as many hours now. They bring that idea up, with the idea that P platers have the most accidents because of a lack of experience, so we'll just make the L platers drive more. But seriously, being a P plater (17 year old male in a car by himself) is about freedom, and if they go ballistic after having to be in the car with a parent after 50 hours, imagine how nuts they'll go after 100! Plus...it isn't so much a lack of driving experience, but moreso a lack of being taught to drive well, and also their choice to drive like maniacs if they wish to.

Thoughts?

[Doubleshadow]

Getting pretty cars and doing crazy things is not strange for young people, especially males. I remember I was dieing to drive a nice car when I came to that age of responsibility. And when it eventually happened, I wanted to impress the girls. Pretty car, adrenalin and sexuality all tied up in that little symbol. Add that to some partying and losing my objectivity with my friends in a partying mood and you have a situation where pure adrenalin and machismo puts an undue burden on objectivity. Sure, no one wants to die, but the young likes pushing the ribbon to the edge. They want to impress their friends, and therein lies the danger.

Most of these kids are fine when they are alone, but they change when they are among friends. In other words they do stupid things. While it is inexcusable, it is understandable. I mean you all remember when you got into fights when your friends were around, and if they were not around, it probably would not have happened. Peer pressure is a major factor. And police and Insurance companies recognize this factor. Mind you, I am not saying all kids are this way. Infact, some adults are absoulte morons too in that they are kids in 45 year old bodies. But, by far, most of us learn by experience. The first time we get into an accident and have to lay up in a hospital with everything up to our balls bandaged teaches the correlation between acts and consequences. We envision our mortality. Post-pubescant teenagers think they are invulnerable. Well, they know they will die, they just dont think it will be today.

While my hypotheses are general in nature, I wish to make it clear this does not apply to all kids as some are responsible, although the problem is more endemic to the young population. Furthermore, I strongly believe if you give 10 kids souped up 8 cylinder cars in contrast to giving another group of 10 kids with ordinary hatchbacks, you would find a major phenomena. I wont give a conclusion, but you tell me which one do you think will have more accidents and drive more recklessly? It's the old, "which came first, the chicken or the egg" syndrome.

[Shortstuff]

What does everyone think about the ideas floating around the government that they could make L platers in N.S.W have to get 100 hours of experience rather than 50?

IMO it won't make any difference. I think that if someone is going to drive like an idiot once they've passed their test, then they will whether they have 50 hours or 5000 hours of experience.

Also, as mentioned before, it won't make much difference restricting power. Even a 1.5 litre car is capable of doing over 160kph and ripping a burnout or doing a handbrake turn. In the UK you get people hooning in cars that are sometimes only 1.1 litres or less!

[Dylan VT]

IMO it won't make any difference. I think that if someone is going to drive like an idiot once they've passed their test, then they will whether they have 50 hours or 5000 hours of experience.

Also, as mentioned before, it won't make much difference restricting power. Even a 1.5 litre car is capable of doing over 160kph and ripping a burnout or doing a handbrake turn. In the UK you get people hooning in cars that are sometimes only 1.1 litres or less!

Yea those are two points that I try to argue all the time, wherever this topic is brought about.

People may be more influenced to drive dangerously/fast in a big car, but they seem to be forgetting that driving dangerously is possible in any car, and if a 17 year old wants to drive his hyundai excel like an absolute maniac in a residential area, he will do it, and it sure as hell isn't the power of his car influencing him.
I'm not saying that EVERY P plater drives like this. I'm a P plater and drive as well as I can, but it just annoys me that powerful cars are inaccesible to P platers because of a minority, but if you look at the amount of P platers that got their P's after this restriction (like me), you'll still see that they drive like maniacs. The cars just aren't as big.

[familyguy]

I think the idea mentioned of a "Hoon Hotline" is a good one...but it'd be a b*stard to police. You'd get drunk mates ringing up dobbing in their buddies. Grannies calling up about everyone who drives on the speed limit when they do 40km/h, everywhere. Anyone who cuts anyone off in traffic, even by accident, would suddenly have phone calls left, right and centre. If the EPA in Victoria can take two phone calls about littering from cars then fine you, this can be made to work.

As for power ratios, I drive more carefully in my Commodore than I do in my 1990 Pulsar (1.8L of raw single cam power!!), cause I know I'll come unstuck a lot quicker in the Commo if I am at speed.

That and I've generally got my kids in the car if I'm in the Commodore...

Sad fact of life #7562723984: there will always be someone who wipes themselves, and possibly someone else, out in a car, no matter the restrictions.

[minux]

I think the idea mentioned of a "Hoon Hotline" is a good one...but it'd be a b*stard to police. You'd get drunk mates ringing up dobbing in their buddies. Grannies calling up about everyone who drives on the speed limit when they do 40km/h, everywhere. Anyone who cuts anyone off in traffic, even by accident, would suddenly have phone calls left, right and centre. If the EPA in Victoria can take two phone calls about littering from cars then fine you, this can be made to work.

As for power ratios, I drive more carefully in my Commodore than I do in my 1990 Pulsar (1.8L of raw single cam power!!), cause I know I'll come unstuck a lot quicker in the Commo if I am at speed.

That and I've generally got my kids in the car if I'm in the Commodore...

Sad fact of life #7562723984: there will always be someone who wipes themselves, and possibly someone else, out in a car, no matter the restrictions.

As i said,

would love to see a public initiative where there is a hotline to call in hoons, after 3 calls the said hoon is summonsed to court, also the 3 people who rang are sent to court also(face a fine if you don't show and hoon walks). I think this system can work and it would make ****wits think twice about driving like an idiot in front of people

[Shortstuff]

There's a Hoon Line set up here. I called it when a guy was doing donuts by a playpark, and got a call back to say the police had paid him a visit as they had several other calls about him too. I don't know the extent of the repercussions for the driver, but it was good to know something was done.

[familyguy]

There's a Hoon Line set up here.

You Victorians must like anonymous dobbing a lot? Hoon line...EPA...etc...etc...

And I know you said it minux, call it a case of not reading thoroughly enough to make out your fine print. Showing up to finger the hoon would be kinda fun.

"That's him yer honour, thats the young punk that nearly ran over my Tiddles as I wandered across the six lane road against a red dont walk signal!" - Old Biddy

[Bradg83]

At the end of the day a kid will go kill themselves in a bloody toyota crown if he's doing the wrong thing.. I think the gov't need to concentrate all their energies onto driver training. I mean, how easy is it to get your license? If you can't drive a manual.. get your auto license... i mean its just too easy..

Doing things like restricting power of vehicles or even speed limiting p platers is a panacea. It works in the sense that it makes joe public go "good on the government for sticking it to those young hoons" but in reality it does **** all to cure the problem.

Also, I find it funny that v8s, turbos and superchargers are out of the question.. but you can still drive a 4cyl porsche or a ferrari.... just because its not a v8 or turbo/supercharged, dosent mean its slow

[Dylan VT]

Also, I find it funny that v8s, turbos and superchargers are out of the question.. but you can still drive a 4cyl porsche or a ferrari.... just because its not a v8 or turbo/supercharged, dosent mean its slow

This gives me the sh*ts too.

My mum used to own a 1985 model Jackaroo. It was a 4 cylinder and was a 2 door, and not a speed machine by any means at all. The turbo was necessary to make it go correctly. Once the turbo died in it, the car was weak as hell.

It would have been illegal for me to drive that jackaroo because it had a turbo in it, but if I wanted to I could drive a porsche (obviously a lot faster and a lot more dangerous) and not have any law hassles.

[ProMaX]

I just want a V8 because i love the sound and i'd love to have one, not because i can go fast.. I could go basically any speed in the car i have now and i wouldn't push excessive speeding.
for example, if there's a wide long empty road with no-one on it, sure i might go 100 in an 70/80 zone as long as there are no major turns etc.
but no way in hell i'd go over 50 in a 50 zone

besides if i did buy a V8 i wouldn't risk damaging it because i cherish it and take too much care of it


oh yeah n in relation to bradg83's post, people can also buy rotors like an RX8 or anything as powerful as chevy big blocks

[qwertsta]

I think it's a load of bullshit! I want my vl turbo right now Allwell i guess it give's me 2 1/2 year's to save up for all the part's to convert to turbo...