Modern Muslims

[minux]

Well, this may spark a bit of debate, but if it does, lets keep it civil.

After talking with a muslim woman on why she wears a hijab(think that is how it is spelled) she told me it is worn to preserve her beauty. the problem i had with this is that i honestly thought it was worn to symbolise a woman has no place in islam society outside her husbands home, which turned out to be correct.

So i went on to get a copy of the Qur'an that had been translated and was recommended by a close friend.

After reading halfway through i have decided that muslims today have been following like blind sheep. The way people have interpreted parts of the quran is just so mad whack it is almost unbelievable and it really makes me wonder how many young muslims who defend their faith have actually read their holy book.
For me, Islam seems more believable a religion then christianity, it is just sad that so many of the followers seem to follow blindly.

I will be speaking to the woman in question during the week, it will be interesting to see her response.

If we are to get things working in our community, i think both us non islamic aussies and muslim aussies really need to educate themselves alot better, because while we have uneducated fools slinging shit from left to right and back again, things will only get worse. I suggest anyone here who has the slightest interest in this country get your hands on a copy of the quran, it will open your eyes to how truly blinded alot of islamic followers are.

[jack.mc]

I'd be interested to hear how you go. Keep us posted

[Joe Peeps]

After talking with a muslim woman on why she wears a hijab(think that is how it is spelled) she told me it is worn to preserve her beauty. the problem i had with this is that i honestly thought it was worn to symbolise a woman has no place in islam society outside her husbands home, which turned out to be correct.

Just curious where you found out this was the correct reason for wearing the hijab?

For someone to take the time to read the Qur'an is impressive. Its been something i been meaning to do - where can you get these english translations? are they in regular bookstores?

[minux]

Just curious where you found out this was the correct reason for wearing the hijab?

For someone to take the time to read the Qur'an is impressive. Its been something i been meaning to do - where can you get these english translations? are they in regular bookstores?

I am not sure where to buy it, i will ask the guy i got it off tonight when we are out fishing. For the record he practices islam, however, he makes it his wifes choice and his daughters choice to wether or not they wear the hijab. the wife wears hers to prayer, the children do not wear it at all.

As for the original question you ask, it is what i was told by this guy. But then again, it could be myself who is interpreting that wrong.

[ClairBear]

Minux:

Right or wrong to you, don't you see that these are their beliefs and doctrines? Because you don't believe in them, or feel they are wrong to live by, doesn't mean you should attempt to change them. We all need to accept that there are lots of different cultures and religions world wide and it is not our place to tell these people their ways are wrong and ours are right. In any religion people will follow blindly and interpret the preachings differently. Your friend is in all probability a very happy person and comfortable with her religion so you could damage your friendship if you start pointing out to her that her beliefs are wrong so to speak.

Just my opinion - not an attack at you

C.

[minux]

Minux:

Right or wrong to you, don't you see that these are their beliefs and doctrines? Because you don't believe in them, or feel they are wrong to live by, doesn't mean you should attempt to change them. We all need to accept that there are lots of different cultures and religions world wide and it is not our place to tell these people their ways are wrong and ours are right. In any religion people will follow blindly and interpret the preachings differently. Your friend is in all probability a very happy person and comfortable with her religion so you could damage your friendship if you start pointing out to her that her beliefs are wrong so to speak.

Just my opinion - not an attack at you

C.

Sashyre, you miss my intent on the original, what i am saying is, modern followers are interpreting to what they feel is right, moreso the lebanese muslims. I do not wish to change what they believe, however, i expect that they do not treat our women differently because of what we believe. that is where the problem lies. these people are expecting us to consider their faith, but alot of these people won't even take the time to consider any one elses faith.

Unlike alot of other people, i at least try and study something before agreeing or disagreeing. I believe also many theoligists have the same interpration of the hijab as i do, including the school of religion in yemin. Heck, only have to look at muslim countries to see that women are nothing to them.

[Julie]

I have actually studied Islam a little bit for uni, so I know where you are coming from Minux. From my studies I learnt that the veiling of muslim women and their seclusion in general is not a strict law of their religion. The translation from the Koran is "Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks closely round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed". Extremes that have evolved from this ruling are matters of local custom and are not religiously binding.

Theres a lot more I could add about other aspects of their religion that are contradicted by their 'die hard supporters' including race relations, sociality and fighting but I'll save that for another post.

One interesting thing about Islam I will add it permits polygamy (multiple wives- up to 4).

[vztrt]

Sashyre, you miss my intent on the original, what i am saying is, modern followers are interpreting to what they feel is right, moreso the lebanese muslims.

So you think it's only Muslims that do this? Every religion does. It just seems that pick on Muslims is the flavour of the month. Yes Muslims have their extremist's, so do Jews, Christians and even Buddhists.
But than you have bogans/rednecks that try to use religion to excuse their actions, funny how all religions preach tolerance but some "religious" people don't seem to hear that message.

[bangers]

I am not sure where to buy it, i will ask the guy i got it off tonight when we are out fishing. For the record he practices islam, however, he makes it his wifes choice and his daughters choice to wether or not they wear the hijab. the wife wears hers to prayer, the children do not wear it at all.

As for the original question you ask, it is what i was told by this guy. But then again, it could be myself who is interpreting that wrong.

don't girls only start wearing it when they get their periods for the first time?

[U121]

i reserve the right to express my opinion despite my blatant ignorance of the subject matter! i'm equally ignorant of islamic beliefs and christian beliefs, seeing as i've read neither the qu'ran or any of the interpretations of the bible. there is no recorded belief system now that is pure, as they have all been around for thousands of years with each generation adding its own twists and turns. i think the muslims MAY be closest to following the original tenets of their beliefs, but i couldn't say for sure... not being able to get in contact with mohammad really makes that sort of investigation a bit of a problem. by the same token, having been unable to contact jesus or god to receive their comments on how their words have been "translated" (see: twisted), i can't work out how closesly christians follow the original message.


when it all comes down to it: fundies are not discriminative, they can stem from any culture, religion, or suburb... and will argue until they're blue in the mouth, or red in the air, that they're right. abolish organised religion! save the world!

my two cents.

[commisme]

Theres always gonna be dumb fools who twist interpretations to suit their own personal demons in all religions.They r just too gutless to say what they really feel and what they believe in so they put it on the koran as a wall to lean against.if these peaple were really true muslims they wouldnt condone violence or sexist practices.No god approves of this.full stop. we are the lucky country!dont let these fanatics reck our soil

[burnz]

i reserve the right to express my opinion despite my blatant ignorance of the subject matter! i'm equally ignorant of islamic beliefs and christian beliefs, seeing as i've read neither the qu'ran or any of the interpretations of the bible. there is no recorded belief system now that is pure, as they have all been around for thousands of years with each generation adding its own twists and turns. i think the muslims MAY be closest to following the original tenets of their beliefs, but i couldn't say for sure... not being able to get in contact with mohammad really makes that sort of investigation a bit of a problem. by the same token, having been unable to contact jesus or god to receive their comments on how their words have been "translated" (see: twisted), i can't work out how closesly christians follow the original message.


when it all comes down to it: fundies are not discriminative, they can stem from any culture, religion, or suburb... and will argue until they're blue in the mouth, or red in the air, that they're right. abolish organised religion! save the world!

my two cents.

as i agree in sience i see your point

[minux]

i don't wanna read anything to do with this. no offence, but good luck anyway.

So why post in this thread? idiot.

So you think it's only Muslims that do this? Every religion does. It just seems that pick on Muslims is the flavour of the month. Yes Muslims have their extremist's, so do Jews, Christians and even Buddhists.
But than you have bogans/rednecks that try to use religion to excuse their actions, funny how all religions preach tolerance but some "religious" people don't seem to hear that message.

When did i say only muslims did this? I am trying to say that the only way peace will be found between muslims and majority australia is when they realise there leaders are feeding them rubbish. How many christians and jews do you see in australia justifying gang rape? Justifying rape in general? How many do you see saying that when the white house falls then and only then will they step aside, i could go on, but it is not what this post is about.

I just suggest that before you call people bogans/rednecks, you actually learn to read into what i am saying because the way your post come across you sounded like the bogan buddy, ia m only saying what i feel needs to happen for bridges to be built between australian muslims and australians.

[Christina]

to say good luck anyway, lay off the petty insults. it's pathetic.



now i will put in my say.

i have alot of muslim girl-friends.
and the ones i do have don't wear the Hijab.
even they have told me that they find it a "joke" and say their parents don't force them to do anything.

i have no muslim friends who wear the head scarf, the last girl i tried to be friendly with told me it wasn't my place to mix with her.

it all comes down to people's interpretations. and the way they are raised to beleive it.
so who knows..

[VKStevo]

hmmm interesting topic, ill keep reading this

[vztrt]

When did i say only muslims did this? I am trying to say that the only way peace will be found between muslims and majority australia is when they realise there leaders are feeding them rubbish. How many christians and jews do you see in australia justifying gang rape? Justifying rape in general? How many do you see saying that when the white house falls then and only then will they step aside, i could go on, but it is not what this post is about.

I just suggest that before you call people bogans/rednecks, you actually learn to read into what i am saying because the way your post come across you sounded like the bogan buddy, ia m only saying what i feel needs to happen for bridges to be built between australian muslims and australians.

Ahh so you automatically assume I called you a bogan. I'm trying to say that there are idiots trying to use their predijuces because you have people that have different beliefs. Mind you it's been happening for many years over many different ethnic groups.
For the rape thing, I'll bring up the Cathlic church and the rape of so many young children over 40 years and the church trying to cover it up, i guess you would believe that they would justify this to let it go on for many years and to let the offending scum keep doing it and dont even try saying the church didn't know because thats BS.
I actually do know what your talking about, as I live in a suburb thats full of many cultures, religions and personal beliefs. These differnt cultures have actually improved this country, yes your gonna get bad apples but I'm fairly sure there are "Australians" that are just as rotten.
So why dont you try looking at it from different points of views before you start a thread like this. The girl was wearing the Hijab(sp?) so what did it really offend you that much. Did it make her a mean person? Who cares! I'm pretty sure your not 100% on the meaning of all christian customs, etc.

[MikesVT]

I actually think we need threads like this... Open up peoples minds. I'm sick of people saying muslims (or any other cultural group) are bad people blah blah blah... People who say that are ignorant (insert swear word here) who think they know it all...
Anyway, I wish I had the time to take a look at the Qur'an, I think it would be quite interesting.

Just to make it very clear, I dont care what religion you belong to, where your born, where you live, what color your skin is, everyone is 100% equal.

And for those of you saying "you dont see catholics committing terrorism"... Well... What about the IRA in Ireland? And so on and so forth. Every religion/culture/society has its 'extreamists'. Anyway... Just my two cents, a little off the original topic, but good luck to you minux! will keep reading the thread.

[U121]

this thread should be closed, i think JC should ban all religious threads.

who are you to express such an opinion? do discussions about religion open something in your head that you don't want to face? does it make you think? harsh, but valid questions.

As for pedophiles in the Catholic Church, they'll be accountable don't worry about that.

waiting for God's justice?... you're waiting to be disappointed. there is no justice but that which we make.

The Bible has the answers if you care to open the book.

sorry... but which bible? there are just too many versions out there for any of it to be any kind of reliable source for anything but a good story occasionally. you've got the old and new testament as well, chock full of self-contradiction... and it's all so damned open to interpretation! surely if God had spoken, the words would be seen by all to be the same immutable truth! but no, everyone's got their own little version of "the word of god".

before anyone accuses me of being anti-christian, i'll admit to it. yes, i am anti-christian, i'm actually anti-religion!
*pause for effect*
i'm of the opinion that everyone should believe what they want... even though most of the beliefs i've heard expounded caused me to shake my head and wonder at how anyone with at least two rational brain cells could be convinced of such... fantastic events. and by "fantastic" i don't mean "GREAT!" i mean "full of fantasy"... but i digress. my opinion is that you can believe what you want, just don't push it on me, or try and make me conform to the way of life YOU chose for yourself. kthxbye

[padrickz88]

WOW a thread started on religion........ we know where this is going to go and just so people know im not being a bitch just saying my oppinion

don't girls only start wearing it when they get their periods for the first time?

when they "mature" so usually when they start going to high school,

if these peaple were really true muslims they wouldnt condone violence or sexist practices.No god approves of this.full stop. we are the lucky country!dont let these fanatics reck our soil

actually islam doesnt tolerate it, by what im told if you do something against the religion you are officially counted as no longer muslim...

I actually think we need threads like this... Open up peoples minds. I'm sick of people saying muslims (or any other cultural group) are bad people blah blah blah... People who say that are ignorant (insert swear word here) who think they know it all...
Anyway, I wish I had the time to take a look at the Qur'an, I think it would be quite interesting.

Just to make it very clear, I dont care what religion you belong to, where your born, where you live, what color your skin is, everyone is 100% equal.

And for those of you saying "you dont see catholics committing terrorism"... Well... What about the IRA in Ireland? And so on and so forth. Every religion/culture/society has its 'extreamists'. Anyway... Just my two cents, a little off the original topic, but good luck to you minux! will keep reading the thread.

100% AGREE, its FU***N BS! i know so many people with so many different natio's, religions... and i know a fair bit about islam (i aint no mohammad but i know a fair bit) and just so people know a parent is SUPPOSED to offer there daughter the choice if they want to wear the hijab and if they dont and the daughter doesnt want to wear it WELLLLL if the parents force her then they are going to hell simple...... just like aranged marrages, if the girl doesnt want to and the parents force her, guess who is going to hell? thats right MUMMY AND DADDY!.... and as for women being nothing in islam? welllll by my knolege that is actually false, women are actually rated higher then the males once they get married, ANDDDDD as for the religion that I PERSONALLY believe is islam, im not a muslim but i do believe in what i know, and everyone should really stop labeling people because of there religion.... PSSSSH! but dont worry people we will have another one of these threads in a week and people will be argueing again.....

so there is my outburst for the night enjoy people and ill see who is flaming me or other people 2moro night because of my believes *rolls eyes*

[minux]

First of all, you and I know Minux where I stand.

Regarding Islam as 'holy', you need to first define what is 'holy'.
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/521

And to what Christian's believe.
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/43/

The major blind faith in the world is called 'worldview religion'. It's a religion that everyone else has. Going about daily routines and business and simply worrying about the short life on Earth and rebelling against God. The Bible has the answers if you care to open the book.

Sorry but that website again has flaws, you quote that one other time.You say my faith is blind, yet you can believe in something that you cannot prove exists, i believe in myself which i know exists. I know when i die i will have died a happy man for the life i lived, its all i need to do. Again, you are saying your choice is right, no one elses is.

However, this thread is not about one or another persons religious beliefs, so can we please keep it away from that.

Ahh so you automatically assume I called you a bogan. I'm trying to say that there are idiots trying to use their predijuces because you have people that have different beliefs. Mind you it's been happening for many years over many different ethnic groups.
For the rape thing, I'll bring up the Cathlic church and the rape of so many young children over 40 years and the church trying to cover it up, i guess you would believe that they would justify this to let it go on for many years and to let the offending scum keep doing it and dont even try saying the church didn't know because thats BS.
I actually do know what your talking about, as I live in a suburb thats full of many cultures, religions and personal beliefs. These differnt cultures have actually improved this country, yes your gonna get bad apples but I'm fairly sure there are "Australians" that are just as rotten.
So why dont you try looking at it from different points of views before you start a thread like this. The girl was wearing the Hijab(sp?) so what did it really offend you that much. Did it make her a mean person? Who cares! I'm pretty sure your not 100% on the meaning of all christian customs, etc.

Again, rea dmy post, i am not offended in any way. The rape thing the catholic church hasn't condoned it, unlike our great friend the sheik.

You ask if i am offended of someone wearing a hijab, for customary reasons, no, for security reasons, yes. Anyway, i started this thread questiong if they knew the true reason for why it was worn, no other reason, so i decided to do some research, it has nothing to do with anything except asking the question "ARE TODAYS MUSLIMS EVEN AWARE OF WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN", is it that hard to comprehend?

this thread should be closed, i think JC should ban all religious threads.

If you do not like it, then DO NOT COME HERE TO READ IT. FFS. People are having civil conversations so you stick your head in make idiotic posts like that.

[U121]

ARE TODAYS MUSLIMS EVEN AWARE OF WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN

the fundamentals believe they are... and those are the only true danger... but the same can be said for any religion.

[Julie]

I seriously don't see what all the fuss is here. People have twisted around the original topic and turned it into a shitfight. Now my interpretation of Minux' original post is that he is trying to encourage non- muslim Australians to educate themselves about Islam, the religion practised by Muslims. He is suggesting that as a multicultural society we get to know a little bit about our fellow Australians. Furthermore in educating ourselves we can then form educated, informed opinions without the bias of media or misguided individuals who call themselves Muslim.

I also feel we are having the wool pulled over our eyes, a significant part of the Muslim community are hiding behind their religion. They make excuses for certain behaviours and attitudes because of their religion, but it has nothing to do with their religion, moreso their culture, their history, their upbringing and their ignorance. Most Australians know so little about the Muslim faith that they just accept what they are told by the media or other people as being right.

People have mentioned that this is just a problem with extremist fundamental Muslims. I disagree, the fact that this Sheik has received such strong support by his followers and not been stood down is a pretty good indication that plenty of other Muslims share his sentiments which liken women to uncovered meat. Having preached this rubbish he should be stood down, this isn't what Islam is about. It appears that he is preaching his words and his opinion as 'gospel' and many Muslims out there are acepting his words without making their own interpretations and conclusions of the Koran.

I think Minux is so right here if we all learnt a bit about the Islam faith we would have half a clue what the religion is about we would know what is acceptable and unacceptable in their religion. Suprisingly it is very similar in many ways to Christianity. Statistically Christianity is the most popular faith in Australia, and most of us have half a clue what Christians are on about, and what is acceptable and unacceptable in this faith. We are able to say 'this is not right, the bible does not teach this' about the disgusting acts of child molestation that have occured in the Catholic Church and then hold those responsible accountable. Compare this to the sheiks recent comments, how many Australians can say "hang on this isn't right, this goes against the Koran"?

[minux]

Julie, thank you so much, finally someone who understands what i am saying. It is funny how others have turned this into a shitfight when the original post had nothing to do with what religion people believe in.

Darren thanks for the trims

[vt1538]

I agree on the point you are making Minux that we should try to understand the religion before condemning it. However with the points that you are making it sounds like a lot of the followers of the muslim faith have not adhered strictly to the doctrine. One has to wonder if either some things are lost in translation or these leaders are teaching their own version.

[cameltoe]

personally i find it offensive when ppl start carrying on about religion.

if someone migrates to this country and becomes a legal citizen they take an oath to uphold australian values and blah blah blah. i have no problems with ppl being muslim, islamic, morman or what ever but don't start preaching it to my face as a the outcome may be deemed offensive.
you live in this country you follow our way of life. as the old saying goes when in rome do as the romans do.
take a look at history......... almost every war has started has done so because of religion.
now where in any scripture does it say it's ok to go out and murder inocent ppl because they don't think the same way as you? it doesn't. how is it possible that there are so many gods that all did the same thing ? i mean we have jesus that is just sooooo wonderful, alah (sp) that is the claimed one and only god....... it's a load of horse **** ppl.

call me racist, a redneck or what ever you like but if you don't want to live here the way real australians have done since the first fleet settled here there are plenty of flights out.i would accept their way of life if i moved to middle eastern country so why can't they do the same for us.

yes i do have a red neck.........it's a fact of life living in the top end. you cant help but get sun burnt