what the hells happenng

[Aryashahin]

holdens newV6 VE and VZ are capble of 195kw 190kw and here comes all new little shitty mazda 3 MPs


http://www.mazda.com.au/mazda3mps/
capable of maximum power of 190kW ,turbocharged engine capable of propelling from 0 to 100km/h in just 6.1 seconds. and its only 2.3 direct injection

i was just woundering WTF is holden doing?!!! then again there is the new toyota capable of 200kw... WTF am i getting ripped off by holden or they are sort of being easy on V6?!!!! or is it because they dont really care about V6 driver anymore?!!
i was sort of looking forward to get max at lease 220kw from a VE6

[VS Omega]

Don't forget how heavy the Commodore is in comparison (the VE SV6 is 1725kg versus 1315kg for the heaviest Mazda3 MPS). You also need to consider the differences here. The car's aren't direct competitors.

The V6 Commodores competitors are the Aurion, Camry and Falcon because they're all full-size class. The MPS's competitors are WRX's and other turbo 4-pot cars because they're compact class.

You also need to consider that it's not all about the factory rated power output levels.. RWD/FWD and weight are just as important.. but put simply, you can't compare apples to oranges. The car to compete with that would be the Astra Turbo.

And you're also right, the flagship of performance in the Commodore range are the V8 models. If you're going to compare (which is wrong to do) you should put the SS-V against the MPS. MPS is focused on performance while the V6 Commodores aren't.

[1vngal]

I agree with Juzza. There's more to a car's performance, power etc. than just the amount of kw the engine puts out.

[Aryashahin]

WILL when it comes to power i sure dont want to get my ass kicked by a puny MPs... i mean its already good enough that cars like WRX sti are having go at V6 commodores...but then i reckon holden should do more when it comes to V6 drivers...

[R0d]

if you want to be a fool and race cars on the roads buy a v8 because you will be surprised how many things can beat a v6 *looks at the rotary next door with something like 12psi of boost*

[calais_304]

i mean its already good enough that cars like WRX sti are having go at V6 commodores...but then i reckon holden should do more when it comes to V6 drivers...

umm what do you mean having a go at V6 commo's, if anything lil V6 commo drivers are trying their hardenst just to keep in sight of a WRX STI, even a std wrx would kill a v6 commo, hell they even give my 8 a good run and thats on the highway!

[Troy711]

WILL when it comes to power i sure dont want to get my ass kicked by a puny MPs... i mean its already good enough that cars like WRX sti are having go at V6 commodores...but then i reckon holden should do more when it comes to V6 drivers...

eh? you are trying to compare totally different size/class cars!

mazda 3 MPS = small sports car
wrx = medium sports car
commodore = large family car

as ProjectCheapVN said, if you want performace out of a commodore, buy an 8. dont go making stupid comparisons between totally different cars. thats just like trying to compare a lambo to a landcruiser, it is simply retarded.

[drewins]

how much power do you need? especially from a family car? 220kws? Imgaine if idiot p platers got their hands on them.

[calais_304]

Imgaine if idiot p platers got their hands on them.

i thought thats what commo's were for

[Pretender]

eh? you are trying to compare totally different size/class cars!

mazda 3 MPS = small sports car
wrx = medium sports car
commodore = large family car

as ProjectCheapVN said, if you want performace out of a commodore, buy an 8. dont go making stupid comparisons between totally different cars. thats just like trying to compare a lambo to a landcruiser, it is simply retarded.

Just out of interest there is a video on Streetfire Video Network of a Lambo racing a Patrol with the Patrol leading with both travelling at 250+km/h.

It would only be fair to compare performance vehicles against other performance vehicles ie MPS v SS V etc and Family car v Family car (Mazda 6 4cyl v Commodore V6). Win to Holden in the performance class but in the family class it could go either way depending on conditions and driver.
Extra weight is a killer.

[Shortstuff]

I wouldn't say the 3 MPS is shitty or puny, but each to their own. For a long time certain manufacturers have been making little 4 cylinder hot hatches that will blow bigger cars into the weeds.

Even a normally aspirated 1.9 litre Peugeot 205 GTI will more than likely see off a V6 Commodore (0-100 time of low 7 seconds as standard compared to around 8 for a stock V6) and they were around in the late 80s.

As I said, it's been happening for ages so it's nothing to worry about

[Troy711]

the maz 3 MPS should be compared to a focus XR5

[calais_304]

Just out of interest there is a video on Streetfire Video Network of a Lambo racing a Patrol with the Patrol leading with both travelling at 250+km/h.

ok so how was that dodged to make the 4x4 keep up with a lambo? im sorry but a slow bush pig up against something specificly for performance and racing just doesn't cut it, and by the way i to can sit on 250km/h

[Julie]

I'd say they dont give a shit u want a taxi buy a v6 commodore, u want something with balls get a v8

[calais_304]

I'd say they dont give a shit u want a taxi buy a v6 commodore, u want something with balls get a v8

the sad thing is julie unless your on the highway most of these lil buzz boxes will give most 8's a bloody good run
then again i'd like to see them tow a 14ft tinnie full of camping gear and still be able to accelerate past highway traffic with minimal effort

[GLD-086]

Who cares?

V6 Commos aren't sports/performance cars, so why should it matter if someone with a sporty 4 beats one or has more power?

the sad thing is julie unless your on the highway most of these lil buzz boxes will give most 8's a bloody good run

True, but I would rather have the sound of a V8, then the sound of 1000 buzzing bees.

[Pretender]

ok so how was that dodged to make the 4x4 keep up with a lambo? im sorry but a slow bush pig up against something specificly for performance and racing just doesn't cut it, and by the way i to can sit on 250km/h

I'll find the video and post the link.

Obviously it is not a standard Patrol but one that has over 1200HP. There are a lot of people who do this to 4x4s and utes to create a sleeper.
Some just go a bit too far.

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...967d7e4ce9.htm

This video shows the race but gives no details of the Patrol. You can see and hear both cars accelerating and you know they are travelling at high speed when they pass the camera. I'll keep looking for the full version.

[Boonz]

dude in the next town over from mine has an 04' mercedes turbo diesel van... you can hear it before you see it, a 4 pot diesel that sounds like a hot V6 and this thing was on the dyno last year at the show and shine. put out somethin like 240 rwkw all he has done is put a bigger turbo and bigger injector pump and a tune

[holden#1]

Acceleration Wise:

Toyota Aurion 7.4 0-100
Ford Falcon 7.6 0-100
Holden Omega 8.6 0-100

Interesting that Toyota used this same sort of advertising to try and sell camrys a few years back...

More Fuel Efficient, Quicker, etc

I don't think the commodore or Falcon has ever sold on these points. Commos and falcoons are brought because of rwd, interior space and design. Average Joe Blo doesn't get too worried about not being able to drag off a aurion.

My first car was a VC commo. I have the old wheels magazines from this era. At the time, the offerings from japan were developing 80% of the 202's power out of considerably smaller and more fuel efficient engines... this trend seems to continue...

Hey, don't get me wrong - i'm a Holden man through and Through!

[sircruisealotVS]

i think a very important point is being missed here, its all well and good to say a car has "x" amount of kw, but kw isnt the be all and end all.
TORQUE is what you want, that toyota aurion may have 200kw (at 6000rpm! mind you) but it only has 336Nm of torque, and thats also at 4600rpm (how hard does this thing need to rev?!)
while if you took say the new omega, it has 20kw less, but is only 6Nm off the aurion, and its at a much more useable rev range of 2600rpm.

[holden#1]

i think a very important point is being missed here, its all well and good to say a car has "x" amount of kw, but kw isnt the be all and end all.
TORQUE is what you want, that toyota aurion may have 200kw (at 6000rpm! mind you) but it only has 336Nm of torque, and thats also at 4600rpm (how hard does this thing need to rev?!)
while if you took say the new omega, it has 20kw less, but is only 6Nm off the aurion, and its at a much more useable rev range of 2600rpm.

yes... I forgot to add about the torque... however, the Ford boys love to wave this one in your face as Falcons have always had a little edge in this area.... they have very agricultural tractor motors

[VL Berlina 5speed]

I'll find the video and post the link.

Obviously it is not a standard Patrol but one that has over 1200HP. There are a lot of people who do this to 4x4s and utes to create a sleeper.
Some just go a bit too far.

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...967d7e4ce9.htm

This video shows the race but gives no details of the Patrol. You can see and hear both cars accelerating and you know they are travelling at high speed when they pass the camera. I'll keep looking for the full version.

this one is the same vid but has a discription

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/f...3d005990bc.htm

04 Nissan 4.8 patrol rapes a lambo in dubai. the nissan is fully modified and equipped with a complete turbonetics Y2K kit producing around 650+ hp. Go NISSAN !!!

o yah i fully killed a stock gogo mobile, both my car and his car were stock at the time.....
its like some1 i know they keep trying to clam that the m3 bmw are better then commodores, but he wont understand you cant compair a 230k+ sports car to a 30k family car

[pandaman]

yes... I forgot to add about the torque... however, the Ford boys love to wave this one in your face as Falcons have always had a little edge in this area.... they have very agricultural tractor motors

Ahh but what a tractor motor it is! The Ford six has come a long way since its humble beginnings, even the 250 X-flow in the late X series was a great little donk. Enough low end torque to embarrass most ricers off the line even in stock form, and a big exhaust makes it sound real nice as well.

As for all this hot hatch stuff, there's some good ones out there, but they just aren't in the same league, it's apples and oranges or rather big cars and small cars. It's not exactly news either, the wrx and evo have been around for ages kicking the bejeezus outta large cars performance wise, but try fitting 4 blokes and a weekends worth of supplies in one, not easy. The falcon and commodore have an entirely different purpose to these performance buggy's, they're family cars that have the bonus of being pretty quick to boot.

[Pretender]

this one is the same vid but has a discription

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/f...3d005990bc.htm




o yah i fully killed a stock gogo mobile, both my car and his car were stock at the time.....
its like some1 i know they keep trying to clam that the m3 bmw are better then commodores, but he wont understand you cant compair a 230k+ sports car to a 30k family car

Yes I saw that one also but the details are not correct for the Patrol, unless the details I saw previously were in fact incorrect. 650 HP wouldn't push the Patrol that quickly I would think but who knows. That same Patrol appears in other vids shown as N/A See Patrol vs C6 or X5

Back on track. The little cars certainly can have outrageous performance but as was implied their performance gets knocked around quite dramatically when extra weight (passengers) is involved. No torque down low.

[drewins]

i thought thats what commo's were for

Yeh and how much power do they have? A VN has something like 140 kws (someone correct me on that). And they still kill themselves in them. Imagine a 10 year old 220kw commodore going for $5000.