Church to advise on abortion Hotline

[minux]

As the title states, the new hotline set up to help counsel women and families on abortion will be run by two pro life CATHOLIC counseling services.

I fail to understand when a woman has to make this decision and would like counseling why they would allow some catholic group to offer it. We have all seen these pro life people at protests. We have all heard the churches views on abortion, yet the government has let this happen.

I just really hope that these people do not try and preach to people looking for advice. If you cannot tell, i am of the belief that a woman has the right to make a decision she feels fit. No one else but her should be able to make a decision on her behalf.

What are others thoughts on this?

I personally do not give a shit if you are a god botherer, pro-life or whatever, do not turn this into a hippy thread praising some god. I want to hear peoples thoughts on how this may affect some people.

[crazyspoon05]

I totally agree with you Minux, if anyone is going to be giving counselling for this subject it should be a group who are or can remain impartial

I also believe that the woman should have the final say in this matter, abortion is sometimes a difficult choice to make but things like this would make this decision even more difficult IMO

[minux]

I totally agree with you Minux, if anyone is going to be giving counselling for this subject it should be a group who are or can remain impartial

I also believe that the woman should have the final say in this matter, abortion is sometimes a difficult choice to make but things like this would make this decision even more difficult IMO

Indeed, as i just said to Julie on MSN, im neither for nor against, i think people make their own choices, they then have to live by those choices

[MikesVT]

Ah... I don't like th sound of that. Women in a very daughnting and confussing possision being counselled or 'guided' by pro-life catholics.
I can see whats going to happen. Subtlely, but surely, the counsellor will make a woman in this possition think that it would be wrong to have an abortion.

I cant say if its right or wrong. That is totally up to the parents of the unborn child. I think in some cases it is what SHOULD be done (parents who are clearly unfit to take care of a child).

I don't like the sound of this at all... Although I'm Catholic, I'm not a big fan of the Catholic church. Get with the times people!

[STEALTHY™]

I agree also. Everything you said minux is my views exactly, so no need to elaborate.


Just about as smart as putting Anti-life(if theres such a thing lol) people in charge of the suicide hotline.


This is just the church at its best, nothing more, nothing less.

[Garth]

hmmm, abortian, such a good topic to involke a good responsible debate

regardless of who say's what to the mother the end decision is her's, some times i just do belive there is a time where the government needs to keep out, the same as the god bothers,

but the government and relgious groups cant keep their little heads or fingers out of anything and are alway's trying to do something to improve the quality of life for someone somewhere. the thing is, with this type of a hotline open it is saying to mum's to be that their mind has been made up for them. it's good to have the option, but is this option realy needed? mabey funds would be better directed towards prevention of unwanted pregnancy's

[vlv8vic]

abortion is a personal choice, i think someone neutral should be offering advice.

A few years ago it is the path we would have chosen, now we are more well set up to handle kids. (wouldnt be ideal right now but certainly possible)

[Julie]

I'm going to try not to get into the pro-life/abortion arguement because I have made my opinion clear in another thread (I'm anti-abortion fyi) and thats not the topic at hand, so don't flame me for adding my 2cents

I don't know the full circumstances of this hotline but if a catholic group are advising on a medical issue and are giving women the moral high ground I think this is wrong. I could see it being ok if say a catholic/pro-life group are providing information to women on other non abortion alternatives, so long as women are getting a balanced amount of information. Since it is a legal medical procedure they should be given all the information from both sides of the fence and make up their own mind. Not just the "you can't abort you are evil and you are going to hell" type stuff thats wrong. They should be told about risks of depression, possible infertility complications later etc.

I think if you were to turn the tables and have the hotline run by a pro-choice group that would also be a bad situation. This is probably the biggest decision a woman would make in her life and she needs to get all the facts before making such a huge decision.

I was trying not to touch on the topic of whether it is right or wrong. But I just want to make clear that just because I think its not fair for a woman to have someones religious thrust upon her in a confusing and emotional time for her it does not change my opinion on the matter. I just think that since it is a legal medical procedure she should have all the information- if it were to be illegal and there be no need for a hotline I'd be much happier.

[pandaman]

I fail to understand when a woman has to make this decision and would like counseling why they would allow some catholic group to offer it. We have all seen these pro life people at protests. We have all heard the churches views on abortion, yet the government has let this happen.

A majority of people have voted for the liberal party candidates in their federal electorates for the last four? feaderal elections. Hence we have a conservative liberal government figureheaded by Mr. John Howard, with federal government policy (which usually becomes legislation) decided by any number of shadowy figures in the backroom all of whom share the "religious right" mindset that the party projects.

The government is cool with the unexpected pregnancy hotline being run by catholics because the catholic church's anti abortion views agree with their sense of morality and their long term policy of population increase to around 50 million by 2020. (I'm pretty sure that's the target, been a while since I bothered reading any of Costello's press releases) I'm not a big fan of abortion due to my own beliefs, but I'll defend to the death a womans RIGHT to decide for herself once she has a full command of the FACTS regarding her options. I think the idea of this important service being biased by such an obvious religious influence is totally ****ed.

So, you don't like it either? STOP VOTING FOR THE LIBERALS/NATIONALS, or convince your crackhead neighbours to stop voting for them or whatever. I admit the alternatives don't look real brilliant either, but the way I see it, it's someone elses turn to **** things up. Politics is an even sicker game than organised religion, and most politicians are happy to play the game, the only comfort for me is that I firmly believe each and every one of those black hearted bastards will eventually get what's coming to them.

[minux]

This decision has nothing to do with Mr Howard, it has to do with Tony Abbott, who, as everyone knows is a raving catholic.

I just think it is sad that people could possibly be led into the wrong direction.

Julie, i won't comment on your post as we discussed our thoughts via msn

[Lumps of cheese]

A very difficult subject or touchy the better word.
I beleive that woman in general have the right to decide what to do in this situation, i also agree that impartial advice is also recommended, considering that this is a very hard decision for any woman to make.

[pandaman]

This decision has nothing to do with Mr Howard, it has to do with Tony Abbott, who, as everyone knows is a raving catholic.

I respectfully disagree, I believe this has a lot to do with John Howard. He appointed Abbott (a raving catholic) the portfolio of health and aging and as PM, Mr. Howard is ultimately responsible for the decisions of his ministers.

[Hairy Eater]

okay... yes.. the decision is up to the woman ... but the catholic counselling is better than no counselling at all .... remember, there's thousands of childless couples out there just waiting to adopt and give that aborted baby a loving life .... adoption is better than murder ...

[DavidPartay]

Wow, so many people jumping to conclusions.

You people are pathetic. Assuming that just because the hotline is going to be run by Catholics, that they're going to be sitting there shouting "GIVE BIRTH OR GO TO HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!" down the phone line. I'm not saying it's not going to happen, but you guys are just assuming that's what's going to happen. You shouldn't make presumptions which can end up making you look like an idiot.

By the way, my stance on abortion is that none of us have the right to take life... If you're pregnant, chances are it's your own fault. If you can't handle bringing up a child, then put them up for adoption once they're born.

[AirStrike]

Wow, so many people jumping to conclusions.

You people are pathetic. Assuming that just because the hotline is going to be run by Catholics, that they're going to be sitting there shouting "GIVE BIRTH OR GO TO HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!" down the phone line. I'm not saying it's not going to happen, but you guys are just assuming that's what's going to happen. You shouldn't make presumptions which can end up making you look like an idiot.

By the way, my stance on abortion is that none of us have the right to take life... If you're pregnant, chances are it's your own fault. If you can't handle bringing up a child, then put them up for adoption once they're born.

You have stated you stance on abortion, one taken by all Catholics. So your saying that if a women rings the hotline they are going to discuss the benifits of having an abortion? I doubt it.
AirStrike

[ProphetVX]

By the way, my stance on abortion is that none of us have the right to take life... If you're pregnant, chances are it's your own fault. If you can't handle bringing up a child, then put them up for adoption once they're born.[/QUOTE]I don't think anyone was suggesting anything like you did then.

However, being a catholic advisory, they certainly are not impartial to the matter. Having those religious beliefs will not allow a counsellor to willingly say that having an abortion is the right choice. That being said, it would never be easy advice to hand out, but it most certainly should be handed out by people who have no prior beliefs forcing them to lean one way or another.

The biggest mistake this government made was making a strong catholic involved in anything to do with a. Medicine, b. Science, c. Social Issues.

[Mr Squishi]

I agree with nearly everyone here (ie not with DavidPartay, and please lets have no more mention of his post, lest this thread turn into another crappy arguement), it needs to be a hotline run by an impartial group.

I'm definitely pro-choice, after all, what kind of life would the baby of a crack-addict prostitute have? Or how would a rape victim feel having to give birth to her rapist's child, for example? I doubt she would be too thrilled about it.

Anyway, religion should have nothing to with anything outside of church.

[knowledge_is_power]

While I believe that everyone should have the right to make their own decisions, the thing we are unable to choose is the consequences of our decisions. That’s where information comes in. The more informed we are, the more able we are to make better informed decisions and have a chance to understand the possible consequences of those decisions. Where we get the information from is a major factor in wether we make a good or ill-informed decision. Unfortunately I don’t believe that there is neutral ground on this topic, your either fore or against, which leads to biased opinions. While I believe that there are a lot of people unfit to be parents, I am against freely available abortion to anyone who wants it. My personal opinion is that a pregnancy should only be terminated due to rape, incest, or it is impossible for both the mother and baby to survive birth. I understand that this thread is not what peoples opinion on the abortion topic is, but rather a pro-life catholic counselling hotline. The point I am trying to iterate is as long as the family receiving the counselling understands that the service provided is biased towards the catholic beliefs and takes that into consideration, then, it may be information they can use. Obviously because it is a hotline it requires the person to call them. They don’t have to call.
Surely helping someone before they get themselves in situation where they would consider abortion is a better strategy.

Jezz

[pandaman]

Firstly, kindly go take a long walk of a short pier, I'm not in the mood for your self righteous crap. I doubt anyone else is either. Now, common sense says that the advice given by this service is going to be tilted towards the views of the people running it. They control the organisation's policy and staffing etc. It's human nature that they'll impart their views onto the advice they give. Problem being, traditional catholic (and many other religious sects for that matter) views are completely incompatible with the harsh reality of todays Australian society. Religion should not be the major factor influencing the advice given by this service, if only because it's so controversial and disruptive. (I'm sure you can agree that it causes a lot of arguments)

As it happens I agree entirely. The most effective method of contraception is abstinence, ie. "Can't feed 'em? Don't breed 'em" However, unlike yourself, I don't believe it's acceptable for people force this view on other people, be it via legislation, peer pressure or allegedly impartial advice. As I see it, it's the affected party's responsibility to come to their own conclusion. Our responsibility as concerned fellow human beings (as I see it) is to provide them with the FACTS of the matter and allow them to work out what's best for them and the unborn child.

Oh, and please refrain from calling me names such as "pathetic" again, lest you really piss me off. Have a nice evening.

Neil.

[Bax]

I'll quote Mr Bill Hicks on this.

"If your so pro-life, lock arms and block cemetaries"

[AttaBoy]

To reduce abortion rate there should be more sex education to young women and men. But I also don't really know whether I agree with abortion because there are pros and cons. Bad thing is that you are killing a life inside which I think it should be avoided unless it has some life threatening illness/complications to the unborn or the mother. People should think twice before having sex, is really that simple and it saves them the hassles later on.

[pandaman]

I'll quote Mr Bill Hicks on this.

"If your so pro-life, lock arms and block cemetaries"

I'll see your Bill Hicks quote and raise ya another one.

"Some of my friends, for instance, think these pro-life people are annoying idiots. Other of my friends think these pro-life people … are evil ****s"

A funny and most interesting man, I wish more people had an opportunity to hear his stuff.

[minux]

Wow, so many people jumping to conclusions.

You people are pathetic.

Oh here we go

Assuming that just because the hotline is going to be run by Catholics, that they're going to be sitting there shouting "GIVE BIRTH OR GO TO HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!" down the phone line. I'm not saying it's not going to happen, but you guys are just assuming that's what's going to happen. You shouldn't make presumptions which can end up making you look like an idiot.

the only one that is looking like an idiot is yourself. the concern raised is that biased information may be given, these pro life people should not be counselling people who may have perfectly good reasons to give up a fetus.

By the way, my stance on abortion is that none of us have the right to take life... If you're pregnant, chances are it's your own fault. If you can't handle bringing up a child, then put them up for adoption once they're born.

If your wife or daughter was raped i presume you would force her to carry on with the pregnancy?

Sorry but if people want to abort for one reason or another it is their choice. People like you have NO RIGHT to tell another person how they should handle their life.

[DavidPartay]

Oh here we go


the only one that is looking like an idiot is yourself. the concern raised is that biased information may be given, these pro life people should not be counselling people who may have perfectly good reasons to give up a fetus.


If your wife or daughter was raped i presume you would force her to carry on with the pregnancy?

Sorry but if people want to abort for one reason or another it is their choice. People like you have NO RIGHT to tell another person how they should handle their life.

There are contraceptive pills available which are effective for up to about 3 days after unprotected intercourse, and also a study was done in the US where they showed that "only" about 1 in 20 rapes result in pregnancy. I'm aware that the girl may not necessarily be able to just get up the next morning and find her way to the doctor, but she can certainly try as soon as possible.

But then, neither my fiance, mum or sister put themselves in the position where they're at risk of being raped so I'm not particularly concerned that that's going to happen.

By the way, you've all completely missed the point I was making. Congratulations again on making me see just how stupid and blind people can be, it really never ceases to amaze me. Try to address what I actually said next time before you try and tell me where to go.

Oh, and to the people who left negative and neutral reputation for me: Boohoo, I'm so worried. If you have something to say then say it in here where I can see your name, after all what have you got to lose? It's an internet forum, and you can't possibly be afraid of an e-Beating from a little pro-life Christian pansy like myself?

[pandaman]

There are contraceptive pills available which are effective for up to about 3 days after unprotected intercourse, and also a study was done in the US where they showed that "only" about 1 in 20 rapes result in pregnancy. I'm aware that the girl may not necessarily be able to just get up the next morning and find her way to the doctor, but she can certainly try as soon as possible

You say that the rate of pregnancy from rape is low. So what? Those who do fall pregnant as a result of rape should be able to decide what course of action to take in their own time, not be forced/pressured to choose between a morning after pill and having a kid in the three days or less after suffering such a traumatic event. That'd just be absolutely ****ed, rubbing salt into the psychological wounds as it were.

But then, neither my fiance, mum or sister put themselves in the position where they're at risk of being raped so I'm not particularly concerned that that's going to happen.

WTF? Far as I'm concerned a woman should be able to walk down the middle of a busy suburban street while butt naked without being at risk of being raped, but unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who don't see it that way, in fact there are many felons currently incarcerated in our country's correctional facilities for perpetrating this horrendous crime on women (and men for that matter) in their own homes! No one chooses to be raped and there is no excuse for committing such a heinous act. To me, it sounds like you're saying women can avoid being raped by altering their behaviour, sounds to me like a more subtle version of that sheikh Al Hilali fella's views on how women can avoid being raped by completely covering themselves so us fella's wont be tempted to take advantage. I don't like that one little bit. But hey, maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions again and have completely misinterpreted the implication of that statement, for your sake I certainly hope so.

Try to address what I actually said next time before you try and tell me where to go.

Ya see, most people have figured out there's no point to taking that approach with you. When faced with logical argument against your views, you tend to fall back to your standard position of patronising irritation that we fail to understand just how rock solid your argument is, despite the lack of reason therein.

Oh, and to the people who left negative and neutral reputation for me: Boohoo, I'm so worried. If you have something to say then say it in here where I can see your name, after all what have you got to lose? It's an internet forum, and you can't possibly be afraid of an e-Beating from a little pro-life Christian pansy like myself?

Meh, it's what the rep systems there for, nothing says they have to leave their name so stop your whining. Oddly enough I don't think you've ever managed to irritate me to the point of leaving you negative feedback. hehehe, funny old world aint it. You'll have to forgive me if this reply seems a little aggressive, haven't had much sleep, yet I felt this important issue needed a reply more than I need rest. So without a further ado I wish you all a good night/morning.