Is Holden truly Australian?

[maxholden]

Is holden really Australian?, I'm not sure about VE, I will be in Europe this March, so probably will look around, but all the models upto VY they looked like german Opel, or Vauxall, I think they all belong to GM. Corect me if I am wrong..

..

[VS Omega]

VB - VL is the same car, based on an Opel Rekord
VN - VS is the same car, based on an Opel Omega
VT - VZ is the same car, based on an Opel Omega
VE is.. AUSTRALIAN! GM's darling child Zeta platform which is going to be used for a lot of cars (including my signature car the Pontiac G8)

I use the term based loosely, new drivetrain, made RWD, strengthened significantly (VB mules were snapping in half due to the harshness of the Outback), made bigger and other stuff

[Spaced]

They are american owned it really depends on what model you are looking at e.g. Astra's a opels rebadged even the parts are imported from europe. Man I'd love to try out a VE GTS on the autobahns

[maxholden]

VB - VL is the same car, based on an Opel Rekord
VN - VS is the same car, based on an Opel Omega
VT - VZ is the same car, based on an Opel Omega
VE is.. AUSTRALIAN!

I use the term based loosely, new drivetrain, made RWD, strengthened significantly (VB mules were snapping in half due to the harshness of the Outback), made bigger and other stuff

I've heard somewhere that VE is Australian, it made a big difference on its reputation. I had few mates come from Europe and they always used to say about Holden: what pay for this $40k???, but it is just an Opel...

I think they will change their opinion now..

..

[hakhawk]

should really say vb-vz the exterior design is based on the opel versions, but really theyre nothing alike, as juz said, lots of refinements in chassis, running gear, etc.

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

In 1856 it started out as a saddlery and leather goods business, but over time the American GM merged with the then called Holden and Frost to form GM-H in Australia. The first 'Holden' the 48-215 was actually an American design and it was registered as a Chevrolet. It was rejected for the American market and was adopted here as a medium sized sedan. So....technically Holden is not Australian at all....

[qwertsta]

Hahahaha i alway's hear little kid's who "love holden" but they also dont drive yet saying "VL'S SUCK they arent even holden they have a nissan motor".

[Troy711]

In 1856 it started out as a saddlery and leather goods business, but over time the American GM merged with the then called Holden and Frost to form GM-H in Australia. The first 'Holden' the 48-215 was actually an American design and it was registered as a Chevrolet. It was rejected for the American market and was adopted here as a medium sized sedan. So....technically Holden is not Australian at all....

considering the original holden company was owned by an australian partnership then technically they are 'australian' its just that now they are not australian owned

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

Carlton United Breweries import Corona, does that make Corona an Australian beer?

When the 48-215 which was considered the first Holden, (even though they were making bodies fitted to Rover, Vauxhall and other chassis's, long before,) was released it wasn't Australian designed or even engineered. At that time the company was jointly owned by GM America and Australians.

[maxy0987]

Hahahaha i alway's hear little kid's who "love holden" but they also dont drive yet saying "VL'S SUCK they arent even holden they have a nissan motor".

They are right though, VL's do suck :P And they do have a nissan motor :P

[88GreenVN]

Carlton United Breweries import Corona, does that make Corona an Australian beer?

When the 48-215 which was considered the first Holden, (even though they were making bodies fitted to Rover, Vauxhall and other chassis's, long before,) was released it wasn't Australian designed or even engineered. At that time the company was jointly owned by GM America and Australians.

The first 3 48-215's were built in Detroit - the rest in Australia.

10 built in April 1948.

Holden is Australian through and through.

All car makers take ideas from each other - and over the ages most cars of the same time frame meld into the same type of shape eg at one time all cars had chrome bumpers then they all had black plastic ones then colour coded....

[qwertsta]

They are right though, VL's do suck :P And they do have a nissan motor :P

Ever seen a VY v6 or v8 faster than this crappy old nissan straight 6?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnrzEIqBWvE

[VS Omega]

All car makers take ideas from each other - and over the ages most cars of the same time frame meld into the same type of shape eg at one time all cars had chrome bumpers then they all had black plastic ones then colour coded....

That's true, but what I said is true too, they ARE opels..


Rekord: (note the doors/rear end.. vb-vl)



Opel Omega (again note doors.. VT-VZ )

[88GreenVN]

Yep opals they are. even the door moulds.... Could be a Gemini front too!!!

[qwertsta]

I thought they were coppied from opel senator's...


VN form?

[veclubby]

well holden utes are australian....u dont see them any where else in the world...
go the utes!

[VS Omega]

Whoa that's trippy, could be the Rekord or the Senator.. note the Senator has the extra C pillar window like VK/VL

[qwertsta]

Yeh a lot of people from www.calaisturbo.com.au said it was the senator so that's what i always thought.

[Bravotwozero]

Australian designed and Australian built. I'd say it is Australian. Of course alot of parts are sourced from other countries, but this is also the case with I'd say all car manufacturers. BMW get their 6 speed autos from GM Powertrains, and the X5 is built in the U.S. Well I guess that means BMW isn't Euro.

[88GreenVN]

Well back to the core the iron ore came from australia.

[Pretender]

Holden is an Australian Company, fullstop.
The cars are Australian also despite their origin or the origin of their parts.
Holdens are only sold in Australia.
That's my take on it anyway.

Some models are obviously complete imports with little Australian input.
The first Commodores used the Opel/Vauxhaul tooling but were still mostly Australian in their construction. After the VK Commodores got less Australian with each new model as more and more parts were imported.
The VE is Australian designed but has less local content than the VZ.
As above they are all Australian cars though.

Also:
A misconception is the 48-215 design. It was designed in Australia with the ugliest front end on just about any car I have seen. GM in North America would not pass the original design and therefore redesigned the front only before authorising it for sale as a GM product.

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

The 48-215 design was fully imported and adapted to Australian conditions. 3 were brought over from America, tooled up and then produced here. It was an original Chevrolet but it was deemed not suitable for the American market so we ended up getting it.
In 1931, General Motors were able to buy the entire Holden's Motor Body Builders and merge it with their North American operation to form General Motors - Holdens. So no, it's not an Australian company full stop.
Even the Holden Lion isn't Australian. It was designed by an englishman named George Rayner Hoff who came to Australian in 1924.
For the record I'm not being unpatriotic, the question was asked, I'm giving my answer.

[Pretender]

The 48-215 design was fully imported and adapted to Australian conditions. 3 were brought over from America, tooled up and then produced here. It was an original Chevrolet but it was deemed not suitable for the American market so we ended up getting it.
In 1931, General Motors were able to buy the entire Holden's Motor Body Builders and merge it with their North American operation to form General Motors - Holdens. So no, it's not an Australian company full stop.
Even the Holden Lion isn't Australian. It was designed by an englishman named George Rayner Hoff who came to Australian in 1924.
For the record I'm not being unpatriotic, the question was asked, I'm giving my answer.

As was I.
GMH is an Australian registered Company, despite a long history of international ownership, therefore is an Australian company.
Let's not be pedantic about ownership details, the company only exists in Australia.
As for the 48-215, I am probably wrong, as I have been known to be, but I will educate myself.

[88GreenVN]

Also:
A misconception is the 48-215 design. It was designed in Australia with the ugliest front end on just about any car I have seen. GM in North America would not pass the original design and therefore redesigned the front only before authorising it for sale as a GM product.

Would that be 'Project 2000'

[Pretender]

Would that be 'Project 2000'

That is the one, beautiful isn't it?

What I found on various sites is below. Most however only go as far as to mention "based on an American design" with no other details. I'll have to look into it a little more.

The 48-215 was initially based on an American design but the finished product was far removed from this design. The frontend treatment was redesigned by an American engineer as the Australian proposal was deemed as not acceptable by GM. After approval for the design was granted three prototypes were hand built in Detroit by Australian and American engineers and then shipped to Australia for further testing and refinement to suit Australian conditions.
Prototype 1 is currently on display at the National Museum of Australia in Canberra.