Australia's Pollution isues

[drewins]

I read today that Australia makes up for 0.08% of the worlds pollution. Quick everybody, run out and buy energy saving light bulbs before the world ends and its our fault!!!!!!

Dont get me wrong I am all for doing our bit for the environment, but I am sick of reading everyday in the paper about how the world is ending and everything that happens in the world (e.g. a windy day) is due to global warming. And then we get grilled for small things that we should be cleaning up in order to stop global warming. For example a law to have energy saving fluros mandatory? The government is gloating about this saying its a world first and that it is helping in the fight with global warming. I wonder how many percent our contributed world pollution will be after this law comes in? 0.079999999%?

Thoughts?

[Spaced]

Little Johnie is running scared and trying to come up with all these schemes cause Kevin Rudd is making a mess of him. I'm all for cutting green house gas emissions. Hell I'd even stick a filter on my car if they made one so I could reduce emissions. If everyone does something it will work. People shouldn't need a friggin law to do the right thing. I was looking at IKEA when my missus was shopping there and they had light bulbs that were brighter and used 10% of the power of a normal bulb, hell I'm all for it reduce my bills even better if it helps the environment.

BTW where is minux when you need someone to have a winge about the tree hugging hippies.

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

Patience Grasshopper.

[vztrt]

We actually produce more emmissions per capita than anyone else in the world. Well thats what they keep saying.

Australia need to do something about the emmissions they produce because if that carbon tax comes into existance than who do you think will pay the extra cost.

[MikesVT]

Bah... Sure there's pollution, sure you can see its effects... but I think all this hype is for no reasno other than to put fear into the public, so that we (the public) change our habbits just because we're told to by a 'higher power'.

rant rant blah blah...

Don't throw your rubbish in the gutters... But surely we dont have to go changing the type of light bulbs we use...

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

Without sounding like a tree hugging, Japanese whaleboat sinking, hemp wearing, dirty, smelly hippy. If we did nothing now then the next generation will surely have a worse environment to live with. SAVE THE WHALES! BLOW UP GEORGE BUSH! BURN ALL THE ABBA RECORDS! Oh, that would be adding to greenhouse gases wouldn't it......

[drewins]

But what I was getting at is we produce f**k all compared to the rest of the world. I want to know what percentage China produces. Im guessing 40%??? Then again I have no idea.

[Marco-EFIVL]

I think Johnny is right about Australia shouldn't agree to Kyoto untill it is either ratified or a more realistic and binding agreement is reached which includes the major industrial nations that are missing from Kyoto (USA, China, India ect). Fluro lights seem like a silly PR stunt, which like most policy related election stunts, it is. It does gather some merit, they last longer, they use far less power (meaning the existing power can be better managed/conserved/distributed) and in the end, they cost business and household less money in the long run. What is so bad about that?


May I add, fluro light bulbs alone aren't gonna save our arses from sh!t, but it is a positive first step. However much larger steps, and with greater frequency need to occur sooner rather than later if everyone is serious about fixing our own environmental mess.

Clean coal, Nuclear, Hydrogen technology, forest rehabilitation, water desalination/recycling and an internationally binding carbon trading/credit scheme will be the only way to fix this on an international level. However, I doubt the credibility and effectiveness of an international watchdog, by definition, the UN has failed on most fronts since Korea 1956...

[minux]

BTW where is minux when you need someone to have a winge about the tree hugging hippies.

lol, sorry just finished work bud damn i hate 16 hour days

Anyways, for what it will do for the environment, its hardly worth it. Besides, i like my bathroom heater globe my fridge, microwave and oven lights. No way known ia m forking out $6 a hit to save the earth for .000000000000000000000000000000000000001 of a second.
I can't have fluoru lights as they give me headaches fromt he constant flicker.

If Mr Howard wants to fix things maybe he should look at nuclear power and get rid of these massive coal power stations that do alot more damage then a few million light globes.

Goddamn hippies.

[Tree cutter]

Maybe we could put all our fat arsed politicians on treadmills to gererate electricity. That way the polly's would be doing something usefull for a change and we might be able to shut down some of the old technology power plants.
If the polly's had to sweat their guts out to produce electricity then i would put in bigger globes and turn all my lights on just to make it harder for them.

[vlv8vic]

Maybe we could put all our fat arsed politicians on treadmills to gererate electricity. That way the polly's would be doing something usefull for a change and we might be able to shut down some of the old technology power plants.
If the polly's had to sweat their guts out to produce electricity then i would put in bigger globes and turn all my lights on just to make it harder for them.

now that is something i would pay to see. hell, id even install i new lightbulb so they could run 80% slower if that kept them busy for longer.

[Spaced]

lol @ minux. I swear your agression could power this country. The thing is if Australia and America stop buying inefficent bulbs then China will stop making them. BTW I watched an inconvenient truth last week provides a good insight into what's happening. Even if you aint a tree hugging hippie it's worth a look. And you don't have to spend $6 a bulb for efficient lights. The thing is if you can cut the costs of electricity bill why not? Especially if it is cheap to do so?

Global warming can not be denied. I mean Australia is already getting Evironmentall displaced people because of this.

If I remember correctly America then Australia had the lowest fuel eficiency standards in the world. Even China has stricter standards than us. The biggest problem is people make too much money out of destorying the world to give it up now.

[_Mukas_]

global warming is nowhere near as big an issue as many people are making it out to be. im not denying the fact that we are having an input as to the conditions of the earth but the earth has been changing since the dawn of time and you dont reckon that massive ball of flaming gas has anything to do with it...

they say the emissions are burning massive holes and having 'major impact'... heres an idea... how can we be having such a major impact if more than 2/3rds of the earth is covered by ocean... sure there is the isolated oil rigs, but put that into perspective... its a drop in the ocean (shocking pun, my bad)

anyone remember that big tsunami that hit asia... well the quake that created that pushed the world onto an axis 7cm different to the one it was one previous to the wave... that couldnt have anything to do with climate change could it?
thats all it is, climate change... a gradual and consistent change in the planets climate... heres an idea... deal with it, do your bit to save water and the environment and the weather will take care of itself... we cant exactly manipulate what the weather is going to do can we?

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

we cant exactly manipulate what the weather is going to do can we?

Haven't you seen the Tooheys New commercial?

[vt1538]

I like your way of thinking there Mukas. It is not as if the Earth has been in this balmy stage for ever. It wasnt too long ago that vast areas were covered in glaciers & much larger animals were dominant.
Nature will soon reassert itself anyway like it has in the past.

[MasterOfReality]

To anybody that suggests getting rid of coal fired power stations:

How else do you suggest that we obtain electricity cheaply? If we switched to a cleaner source, electricity costs would skyrocket (due to the fact that longwall and open cut mining can produce huge tonnages at low cost) and I bet that the public's preference would switch back to coal fired power after they find out that paying through the nose for electricity doesnt give you a warm and fuzzy feeling inside.

To top it off, my absolute disdain and very low opinion of the Greens was confirmed when they said that the coal export industry should be shut down within three years. Cool, love your work Bob Brown, lets go back to the horse and cart, and the way life was before the industrial revolution.

[Spaced]

global warming is nowhere near as big an issue as many people are making it out to be. im not denying the fact that we are having an input as to the conditions of the earth but the earth has been changing since the dawn of time and you dont reckon that massive ball of flaming gas has anything to do with it...

they say the emissions are burning massive holes and having 'major impact'... heres an idea... how can we be having such a major impact if more than 2/3rds of the earth is covered by ocean... sure there is the isolated oil rigs, but put that into perspective... its a drop in the ocean (shocking pun, my bad)

anyone remember that big tsunami that hit asia... well the quake that created that pushed the world onto an axis 7cm different to the one it was one previous to the wave... that couldnt have anything to do with climate change could it?
thats all it is, climate change... a gradual and consistent change in the planets climate... heres an idea... deal with it, do your bit to save water and the environment and the weather will take care of itself... we cant exactly manipulate what the weather is going to do can we?

Yes the world is ever changing but if you track the global temperature etc you will see in the last 100 years it has been going up and in the last 20 very steadily. With india and china starting to have more money for cars etc what do you think is going to happen?

[Marco-EFIVL]

To anybody that suggests getting rid of coal fired power stations:

How else do you suggest that we obtain electricity cheaply? If we switched to a cleaner source, electricity costs would skyrocket (due to the fact that longwall and open cut mining can produce huge tonnages at low cost) and I bet that the public's preference would switch back to coal fired power after they find out that paying through the nose for electricity doesnt give you a warm and fuzzy feeling inside.

To top it off, my absolute disdain and very low opinion of the Greens was confirmed when they said that the coal export industry should be shut down within three years. Cool, love your work Bob Brown, lets go back to the horse and cart, and the way life was before the industrial revolution.

1: We either use less energy or use our existing energy more efficiently, or both. The problem is with resources like water, fuel and power is that they have been too cheaply available and haven't neither been appreciated nor valued by consumers, hence leading to an inefficient use/distribution of these resources. When there is cost pressure, then there is incentive to discover and implement better, more powerful and vastly more efficient ways to both create, store and use these resources. This should've been happening in the late 80's, or even the 90's, now, they've left such moved very late...


There are other means of making power, all we need is to jump the hurdle of the initial high setup costs. Here are some alternatived:

Geothermal - (Impossible in Australia due to a lack of seismic/volcanic activity).
Hydro - (Murray-Darling? Derby/Kimberly coast line?).
Solar - (We have plenty of plains/desert and even more sun).
Nuclear - (A can of worms, but most western nations have embraced the tech).


2: I couldn't agree more on Bob Brown, he is a bloody twat!

[MasterOfReality]

1: We either use less energy or use our existing energy more efficiently, or both. The problem is with resources like water, fuel and power is that they have been too cheaply available and haven't neither been appreciated nor valued by consumers, hence leading to an inefficient use/distribution of these resources. When there is cost pressure, then there is incentive to discover and implement better, more powerful and vastly more efficient ways to both create, store and use these resources. This should've been happening in the late 80's, or even the 90's, now, they've left such moved very late...


There are other means of making power, all we need is to jump the hurdle of the initial high setup costs. Here are some alternatived:

Geothermal - (Impossible in Australia due to a lack of seismic/volcanic activity).
Hydro - (Murray-Darling? Derby/Kimberly coast line?).
Solar - (We have plenty of plains/desert and even more sun).
Nuclear - (A can of worms, but most western nations have embraced the tech).


2: I couldn't agree more on Bob Brown, he is a bloody twat!

The reason why we have left it too late is that the coal reserves left in Australia are absolutely enormous. I remember reading that with current mining technology, we have 300 years of coal supply left. With anticipated increases in mining technology to reach previously unminable coal, we will have closer to 600 years of coal left.

There are cleaner ways of burning coal, and that is I reckon the only realistic alternative.

I am all for nuclear power, but then the problem is you get the same uninformed mob of greenies complaining about the nuclear issue, plus the need to mine the stuff. And either with all the other technology available like wind farms. Great idea sure, but where does the metal they are made out of come from? Same as solar panels, in fact, same as everything. Everything needs to be manufactured out of something, and more often than not, that something comes from a mine.

So either way, you can't win with environmentalists.

[Spaced]

Here here on Bob Brown, he's got no friggin idea. We have heaps of coal so maybe we can find a cleaner way to make power from the coal. Also I saw a doco a few months back on gas they have found in SA and they said they wouldn't start using this for power unless they could make a lot more money out of it even though it was a cleaner alternative. So why not look at this?

Nuclear is great except for when something goes wrong cause it will go horribly wrong (see chernobyl). I'm not a fan of nuclear because of the toxic waste it produces. America has been dumping their nuclear waste in our back yard for a few years already.

Oh yeah Mukas they have taken core samples from the arctic and this has proven their theory that it is continuing to get hotter they can look back hunderds and thousands of years with these samples.

To do nothing is to contribute to the problem.

[Marco-EFIVL]

Govt needs to subsidise these cleaner alternatives NOW! I'm a big supporter of 'clean' coal and I like this push for Bio Diesel which I'd like to see the Govt subsidise and support also.

Oh yeah, and I forgot wind power!

[_Mukas_]

Nuclear is great except for when something goes wrong cause it will go horribly wrong (see chernobyl). I'm not a fan of nuclear because of the toxic waste it produces. America has been dumping their nuclear waste in our back yard for a few years already.

Oh yeah Mukas they have taken core samples from the arctic and this has proven their theory that it is continuing to get hotter they can look back hunderds and thousands of years with these samples.

To do nothing is to contribute to the problem.

nuclear is still debatable, i think it will be a prominent energy force within the next 20 yrs or so... its feasible if it works but the risk at this stage is a bit high for general society to deal with and fair enough.

not denying the fact that we are contributing to this constant climate change, but for people to lay blame purely on emissions etc is not only naive but stupid and idiodic...
we need to look past the atmosphere and realise we dont control the universe... people are very narrow minded in regard to what the earth can and cant do... who are we to try to control and manipulate it...

agreed that if we dont stem the flow of emissions and the like the degeneration of the planet will happen faster, but its not something that wasnt going to happen anyway...

i tihnk we all need to chill out about this whole global warming thing and do what we can to help, without removing the very freedom we are entitled to...

[Spaced]

We as the human race are to blame for this. We are burning the wick at both ends. We are pumping co2 into the atmosphere daily and they are cutting down the amazon (as you know trees convert co2 to o2)

[_Mukas_]

We as the human race are to blame for this. We are burning the wick at both ends. We are pumping co2 into the atmosphere daily and they are cutting down the amazon (as you know trees convert co2 to o2)

so based on that logic, the only way to combat global warming is to kill everyone... or cull, that way it doesnt sound so bad...

[Spaced]

*award* here's your award for hands down the dumbest thing you have said so far on this forum and there has been a lot.

An alternative to your idea is cut emissions and regenerate rainforest. A lot cheaper than the stupid ideas the americans are coming up with it.