Trigger Happy, or justified ?

Trei · #1 21-02-2007, 11:37 PM

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sto...44-661,00.html

Fair enough they shot him,

I'm interested in this quote:
"He was close enough for members to feel their lives were in danger and therefore they shot in the direction of the deceased," she said.

If they're trained police officers, why didn't they shoot the offender in the legs ? ... rather than just "shooting in the general direction" Weren't they looking or something? Did they have their eyes closed ?

Quote:

believed to be in his 30s, for multiple gunshot wounds to the arm and chest but he died at the scene,

Multiple gunshot wounds... How many bullets does it take, to bring a guy with an axe, down ? 1, 2 ? ... or does it take 4,5 or 6 ? He's already been shot in the arm, so odds are he's dropped the axe... or perhaps they shot him in the stomach first, in which case they've shot him in the arm again (and by this time i'm assuming he's dropped the axe)... or perhaps they stood there pounding 4,5,6 bullets into him and he was still standing, coming towards them... with :O the axe ! YEAH, RIGHT .

Perhaps they should re-evaluate half the police force... or at least hire people who can look in the "same direction" as the person they're shooting, so they can shoot them in effective areas rather than just spray the guy with bullets. There's no doubt in my mind the guy should of been shot, to be taken down (and arrested, alive ) He's obviously a maniac... and I don't think it's right to criticise them for not using the capsicum spray because that's not going to do much against an axe... but did they have to pump the guy full of lead?

Sounds a bit dodgy to me. But no worries, it'll be covered up and we won't hear about it again.

The Stig · #2 21-02-2007, 11:50 PM

AFAIK Cops in australia are trained to shoot for centre of body mass, easiest part to hit...

and how many to take him down would depend on the weapon being used.. its stopping power etc etc...

again AFIAK the aussie cop gun is pretty weak in physical stopping power (IE some guns, one shot will knock you on your a&&.... this one wont)

And depends on him.... was he high on drugs? running on huge amounts of adrenaline? cos if he wasnt feeling it.. he wasnt stopping..

Kingo · #3 21-02-2007, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trei

If they're trained police officers, why didn't they shoot the offender in the legs ? ... rather than just "shooting in the general direction" Weren't they looking or something? Did they have their eyes closed ?

Police and defence personel are trained to shoot at the torso, as it presents the largest target area. Obivously a bad shot by the cops hit him in the arm.
What if they went to shoot his arms or legs and missed? Then uncle chop chop might have got them.
Also, if there were a number of officers, each one would have fired a couple of rounds.. that accounts for the 'multiple' gunshots.

The article is a little contradictory, in the beginning it says they don't know who fired the shots, then later it says one officer fired the shots...

. · #4 21-02-2007, 11:52 PM

I agree with the Stig

Trei · #5 21-02-2007, 11:52 PM

The Article Makes out the Police had their eyes closed and just pumped the guy full of lead.

Which also makes it interesting.... could they of perhaps, NOT shot him so many times.

Kingo · #6 21-02-2007, 11:59 PM

I think you are misunderstanding what the article is saying.

"He was close enough for members to feel their lives were in danger and therefore they shot in the direction of the deceased,"

Shooting in his direction as in AT HIM, as opposed to not shooting in his direction as in a warning shot.
Next you will say, omfg they shot at a dead guy? "shot in the direction of the deceased"

Trei · #7 22-02-2007, 12:02 AM

*yawn* If you want to have a different opinion, you have a right to.

But keep your smartarseness to yourself.

pow3rslave · #8 22-02-2007, 12:03 AM

sometimes you hear stuff and you think "yeah, that was a bit overkill/unjustified" but in this case if he was presenting an imminent danger the officers and possibly other people around him.

it's a bit sad because he was probably suffering mental illness, which is why i'm generally in favour of non lethal means (stungun etc)

kinkbike_rider · #9 22-02-2007, 12:06 AM

I once heard an argument like this...if they (cops) were persistent to maybe shooting the offender in the arm with a great deal of accuracy in training, could they do it in real life? i know a cop who was a real crack shot, could hit anything a mile away( exaggeration, but u get the point) he was on duty at a mall and someone produced a gun ( can't remember the whole story but you get the point), he knew he could easily shoot the gun out of his hand, hes never missed b4 so he shot for the gun, he missed in the heat of the situation, the offender was able to fire off a round at a young women before he could get another shot into him to take him down... what i'm trying to say is that the cop saw a man in a surburan street with an axe smashing cars, what if they did manage to shoot him in the arm in which he was holding the axe and he dropped it? what if then produced a gun that was hidden tucked away and shot and killed an officer? Police officers are here to protect society, whether or not you beleive they did the right thing or not, you were not there, in the end police officers save allot more lives than they sacrifice...

My two cents...
Not having a go at u...

Trei · #10 22-02-2007, 12:08 AM

Quote:

it's a bit sad because he was probably suffering mental illness, which is why i'm generally in favour of non lethal means (stungun etc)

I agree.

Quote:

what i'm trying to say is that the cop saw a man in a surburan street with an axe smashing cars, what if they did manage to shoot him in the arm in which he was holding the axe and he dropped it? what if then produced a gun that was hidden tucked away and shot and killed an officer? Police officers are here to protect society, whether or not you beleive they did the right thing or not, you were not there, in the end police officers save allot more lives than they sacrifice...

I know pressure ads another variable. I'm not complaining about where or why they shot him (they're trained to hit in the chest/upper body area, fair enough).

I'm complaining about how many times they shot him. Surely he couldn't of still been holding the axe and coming towards him after the second or third bullet ?

kinkbike_rider · #11 22-02-2007, 12:13 AM

as someone said above, there was more that one officer, so it would be plausible that each member fired a bullet or 2.... accounting for multiple gunshots...(unless im missing something)

Marco-EFIVL · #12 22-02-2007, 01:35 AM

This seems a little unclear on what actually happened, however in most cases, you'll find that when cops elevate to the use of lethal force (Guns/Firearms) then usually the assailant will end up a fatal casualty. It is just a fact of the force, with today's legal procedures and 'victims' being able to sue God for anything that goes amiss, if an officer shoots, and brings 'em down, then it saves a lot of legal bullcrap later. I will back the cops in saying that I think of Australian cops being the most tolerant and 'un-trigger' happy when compared to the other law enforcement agencies in the world.

The Police were issued in recent years with a new sidearm, one which could carry a few more rounds (bullets) 10 or 12 I think now, it is more accurate at moderate distances and more power (cause of a different round, I think the new one is .40 instead of 9mm) all with less recoil.

badaz · #13 22-02-2007, 04:01 AM

Its sad to to see this guy has been shot. Lets now feel sorry for those officers that had to shot him ,they will have nightmares about what they have done, yes I am a officer and yes I have had to draw my firearm on someone yes I was lucky they dropped the item they had and did the bolt a split second later it might of been a different story, and yes I had some restless nights after that.

Kingo · #14 22-02-2007, 04:24 AM

Just for interest...

Quote:

the firearm adopted for use by most state police forces is the .38 or .357 Smith & Wesson revolver or increasingly the Glock .40 self-loading pistol (SLP).

I agree that this incident will probably have a lasting impact on the lives of all involved.
Killing another human being would mess you up fairly well. Just look at the high rate of me