P-Plater Scape Goat?

[Wicked_D]

A friend of mine had just been sentenced to 18 months prison, with a no parole period of 18 months. Here's the story:

In April 06, he was driving my car on a small country road with unmarked lines, doing around 100 KM/H. Another vehicle was coming in the opposite direction and my friend moved the vehicle to the left to allow more room. Unfortunately, the wheels on the left hand side of the car left the road, and my friend over corrected to the right, straight into the other vehicle.

My Friend suffered a shattered ankle, I had minor whiplash injuries, one of the passengers in the other vehicle was unharmed, the other two were seriously injured but have now nearly 100% after a long period of time in hospital.

The police took four months before interviewing anyone about the accident, and it was almost 12 months before the matter was brought to court. I had to be a witness.

I expected the court room to be full of diagrams, police reports, especially since the other party claimed that my friend was doing at least 120KM/H, and that he was swerving all over the road doing fishtails before the impact, and that he came around a corner up the road sideways. Shouldn't there have been some sort of physical evidence? Skid marks? I thought police could tell how fast you were going by analyzing skid marks.

In the end, the judge literally said that he believed what the other people were saying, and charged my friend with 2x of Dangerous Driving Causing Grevious Bodily Harm, and Neg Driving, and he has been sentenced. He also had to face another charge in a few months time (I don't know what that is).

To me personally it really seems like my friend was found guilty before the case even started, since he was a P Plater, he must have been driving dangerously, right? What really upsets me the most though, is that there was no evidence, it literally came down to they said/we said, and that shouldn't be enough, should it?

Pretty bull**** as far as I'm concerned, especially when guys get off drink driving over and over again.

[fabz]

I would say he should have paid more for a lawyer and sounds like hes a regular at court or at least with the cops. Did he have a record before, maybe a bad driving one? Sounds a little harsh but put yourself in the other peoples shoes. What if that was you. You could have been killed. And IMO on a dirt road slow you arse down to like 50 when passing another car coz hell yeah its dangerous.

[chappy]

A friend of mine had just been sentenced to 18 months prison, with a no parole period of 18 months. Here's the story:

In April 06, he was driving my car on a small country road with unmarked lines, doing around 100 KM/H. Another vehicle was coming in the opposite direction and my friend moved the vehicle to the left to allow more room. Unfortunately, the wheels on the left hand side of the car left the road, and my friend over corrected to the right, straight into the other vehicle.

My Friend suffered a shattered ankle, I had minor whiplash injuries, one of the passengers in the other vehicle was unharmed, the other two were seriously injured but have now nearly 100% after a long period of time in hospital.

The police took four months before interviewing anyone about the accident, and it was almost 12 months before the matter was brought to court. I had to be a witness.

I expected the court room to be full of diagrams, police reports, especially since the other party claimed that my friend was doing at least 120KM/H, and that he was swerving all over the road doing fishtails before the impact, and that he came around a corner up the road sideways. Shouldn't there have been some sort of physical evidence? Skid marks? I thought police could tell how fast you were going by analyzing skid marks.

In the end, the judge literally said that he believed what the other people were saying, and charged my friend with 2x of Dangerous Driving Causing Grevious Bodily Harm, and Neg Driving, and he has been sentenced. He also had to face another charge in a few months time (I don't know what that is).

To me personally it really seems like my friend was found guilty before the case even started, since he was a P Plater, he must have been driving dangerously, right? What really upsets me the most though, is that there was no evidence, it literally came down to they said/we said, and that shouldn't be enough, should it?

Pretty bull**** as far as I'm concerned, especially when guys get off drink driving over and over again.

I am not saying that this a good story BUT! I would like to hear both side of the story. "As they say there is two side to every story."

I fail to see why a judge would have made his mind up just becasue he is a P-Plate before the case started.

He can always appeal the judgement and see how he goes and possibly get a better legal rep.

CHeers.

[Wicked_D]

I would say he should have paid more for a lawyer

He was actually paying $2000 a day for the two days, so that he could have a barrister. He is going to appeal the decision.

I think the judge made his mind up, because he has a tendancy to give very harsh sentences to anyone brought before his court if it's related to driving and they are on their P's. Look at all the controversy surrounding P Platers, a lot of people assume that just because you are a P Plater, you are a bad driver and reckless.

[minux]

Oh for gods sake, if this was ANY driver it owuld have a similar outcome. Magistrates couldn't give a **** about P plater or not P Plater. He lost control of a vehicle as he was traveling to fast for the conditions. Simple as that.

[180sc]

Minux must've been a witness for the prosercution he would of had to of been there to know he was driving to fast for the conditions :P I agree you should slow down before passing oncoming traffic on narrow country roads but it can still have its risks regardless of speed. lack of experience could have played its part as well as excessive speed as you say "around 100kph" my question would be as to why wasnt it investigated immediately by the police being that there was obviously serious injurys? It was my belief that if there where any serious injurys the would be preliminary investigations before either car was moved from where it stopped after impact and then inspected at a later date by the accident investigation squad, thats how ive seen it happen here in qld before any way.

[Bax]

Definitely sucks, was an accident and doesn't deserve 18 months, would definitely appeal.

However, if he was really driving like an ass then he deserves it.

[STEALTHY™]

Minux must have never been a P plater (j/ks)



I can see it from both sides. They would assume he was being a moron and showing off, so they gave him the highest penalty.

you still havn't said if it was his first offence? Having a lawyer worth 1000 a day, you'd have to think he's been there before, to which it would be a step backwards straight away.


But on the other hand, having been a P plater 'recently' i can see how they wouldn't even listen. I could make a forum just on the amount of times i've been pulled over for nothing, and defected/fined for just driving down the road when a cop happened to be.

One instance i shoud note, i had P plates up, but my license was actually on the full license (was in the process of being changed). I got pulled up after a guy in a skyline tryed to drag me at the lights (like a VL wagon is going to drag a skyline), the cops pulled up next to them at the next lights, and they obviously said i was dragging. Long story short, one checked the car, while the other did the license thing, i explained what the deal was, and when he said i should be on my full license, he just got back in his car and left. I'm sure if it came back i was ment to be on P's, the car would've been defected before i even pulled over.

[minux]

Minux must have never been a P plater (j/ks)



I can see it from both sides. They would assume he was being a moron and showing off, so they gave him the highest penalty.

you still havn't said if it was his first offence? Having a lawyer worth 1000 a day, you'd have to think he's been there before, to which it would be a step backwards straight away.


But on the other hand, having been a P plater 'recently' i can see how they wouldn't even listen. I could make a forum just on the amount of times i've been pulled over for nothing, and defected/fined for just driving down the road when a cop happened to be.

One instance i shoud note, i had P plates up, but my license was actually on the full license (was in the process of being changed). I got pulled up after a guy in a skyline tryed to drag me at the lights (like a VL wagon is going to drag a skyline), the cops pulled up next to them at the next lights, and they obviously said i was dragging. Long story short, one checked the car, while the other did the license thing, i explained what the deal was, and when he said i should be on my full license, he just got back in his car and left. I'm sure if it came back i was ment to be on P's, the car would've been defected before i even pulled over.

Fact remains, HE lost control and was lucky to not take any lives at the speeds he was traveling. Again, my arguments in other threads come to light, slow down, have a little patience and things wont happen or if they do happen they will be controllable.

Stealthy using the " i only get pulled over because of P's isnt that great a line to use. I've been pulled over more times in the last 6 months then i ever was on my P's. Most police now are just hunting modified cars to pick on. P plate or No P plate.

[Bax]

However, conditions or not. If the signed speed limit was 100, and he was travelling at or under 100, he hasn't broken the law.

[vt1538]

However, conditions or not. If the signed speed limit was 100, and he was travelling at or under 100, he hasn't broken the law.

WTF. Whatever speed he was doing he had no control over the car. That is driving too fast for the conditions. That in itself may not be breaking the law but plowing head on into the other car was.

[Troy711]

keep it on the subject. first time this thread gets into a P plate debate it gets closed.

[minux]

However, conditions or not. If the signed speed limit was 100, and he was travelling at or under 100, he hasn't broken the law.

It was a country road, most country rd's arent signed, it usually 100 km/h or speeds that suit the conditions.

[Wicked_D]

He'd had one previous speeding fine, and a neg driving fine, which definitely would have counted against him. But I don't think that a stupid accident caused by inexperience is worth 18 months prison.

[STEALTHY™]

Fact remains, HE lost control and was lucky to not take any lives at the speeds he was traveling. Again, my arguments in other threads come to light, slow down, have a little patience and things wont happen or if they do happen they will be controllable.

Stealthy using the " i only get pulled over because of P's isnt that great a line to use. I've been pulled over more times in the last 6 months then i ever was on my P's. Most police now are just hunting modified cars to pick on. P plate or No P plate.

I wasn't debating the fact he lost control, as he did, so thats his problem now.

But that harsh a term, for what the offence is, is way over the top (sure there was the risk he could have killed someone, but a conviction on his record would be enough to get the message through)

This is assuming he hadn't done anything like that before, if he had a prior conviction, then stiff ****, he deserved it.


And about the being pulled over thing, i've been pulled up maybe 4 times on my full licence, but over 30 on P's.

[DannyboyDS]

I havn't read the entire thread, Just your first post, my advice.

Appeal the descision, it will go to a higher court.

Remeber that there is no evidence, it is word against word so character witnesses are a big thing here, police records too, a police check, insurance quotes and anything else that can show little or no traffic infringments is good, have unbiased witnesses provide evidence on whether or not they think your mate is a hoon, dont let him take 18 months lying down (bent over) fight back.

Oh and get a good lawyer!

And if you keep appealing eventually it will cost ALLOT but you will be brought before a Jury I believe who are instructed not to give a guilty verdict if they have ANY Doubt of about guilt.

so with no evidense they cannot find you guilty for in a word against word match there will always be doubt.

[vlv8vic]

the fact that he had priors doesn't make him look like an intelligent candidate for compassion.
he obviously couldn't control the car and put the lives of at least 5 people at risk. country roads aren't killers, drivers are.

i grew up dealing with roads like that. BRAINS tells me that if for any reason i might suspect i am SHARING the road with other drivers i know to drive with that in consideration. he didn't do that. i bet he doesn't serve the full time, but his priors, lack of judgment (obviously on more than one occasion) sures up my feeling that some time with Bubba might give him time to think about his responisibilities on the road.

[Misaprop]

WTF. Whatever speed he was doing he had no control over the car. That is driving too fast for the conditions. That in itself may not be breaking the law but plowing head on into the other car was.

I was pulling out from parking on a sharp bend in a posted 60 zone, difficult to see cars behind me. Saw a taxi doing 40 or so and let him through. Checked behind me nobody there, pulled out and out comes a car going at 60 or more. Ended up being cops, they booked me for not giving way (no accident, but they had to slam their brakes to slow down in time).

I challanged the fine in court, the three officers in the car all had different stories and didn't even remember where it happened, but all said they were travelling at 60kms. The magistrate forced me to accept (a reduced) fine and the demerit points saying they were not breaking the law, and I was in the wrong.

The driver was a young woman, and a year younger than I am, so had the same amount of experience as I did.

Sometimes its interpretation of the law and sometimes its the letter of the law, fark if I know which is when.

[adam69]

Inexperience on that type of road would be a contributing factor.Most country roads are crap and dangerous if unsealed.
Unless there is an independant witness i cant understand how i was convicted unless he pleaded guilty.
Nobody in either car is an independant witness,it needs to be a third party.
Appeal the sentence and it will go to a county court.It doesnt matter what you pay for a mouth piece,they need to be good.I payed $7500 for a barrister to do an appeal for me for a 20 month prison term and he wasnt worth $7.50.
If you need more advice you can PM me and i will gladly help.

[padrickz88]

well sounds pretty retarded, he was doing around 100 right? country roads are usually 100 sometimes 110.... depends where you are, if his doing 100 why is he getting in so much ****? im sure it could of been avoided if they wernt doing that speed to? why should he have to cut down to 50km/h? and not them? if they were going slower, wouldnt you expect it not to happen?
cant just blame one person... and its not like the guy was thinking "yeah im going to loose it here and smash into the car so i better slow down" sometimes you just dont know... you may do something everyday.... and still 1 day get unlucky and smash.... look at peter brock, great driver. done it for years... but the poor guy ended up smashing into a tree.... so if a guy who has been driving for so long can stuff up anybody can.....

my advice, APPEAL!....

and as for the p platers gettin bullied a little more, it all depends on the cop.... you get a good cop you get treated like a person, you get a "not so nice" cop...... you could end up driving off with a canary and a fine, all depends

[DannyboyDS]

Yeah tbh I live in the country kind of, i'm used to crap roads, dirt ones with corrugation, slim roads with rough steep edges.

Not to mention every P plater with a stock V8 or a worked 6 hooning around, it can get pretty rough in the country or rural areas.

But anyone should know that if you have to leave the road to make room for two the max speed you do when exiting should be 60 kmh and thats at MAX.

A common mistake one which I have made myself is over correction.

I did two 360's and a reverser parralel park on a dirt road

Sounds cool aye, but it wasn't.

The cause, traveling at 65 kmh hit a big mound of built of gravel pushed to the sides due to heavy rainfall, started to skid sideways, overcorrected, re corrected, over corrected again, lost it completly.

[Garth]

to be totaly honest with ya, who cares.

the result woudl have been teh same if i did it, and im not a p plate driver. the sooner you people get over this p plate bashing thing the better the world will be. it's a standard result that anyone would get, regardless of the plate's.

[Boonz]

i think its got nothing to do with the plates.... he got time cos its his second offence... i do think its not fair how he got accused but you cant change the mind of a magistrate

[adam69]

P plate or not from what ive heard he didnt get a fair deal.taking into account that this is only one side of the story.
I know for a fact that a prison term from magistrate is not as common as higher courts and is considered a last resort.
I dont think we are gettng the full story.

[STEALTHY™]

Can someone quote where it says its his second offence?
I've read the thread twice over and didn't catch it.


As above, theres a few gaps in the story that will make the rest of it clearer.