workplace laws

[dagar187]

hey ppl,i wanted to find out definativly what exactly the new ir laws are and how much thay have changed.My main question is : What is the laws regarding the length of time one has worked-and when you are suppose to be offered a permanent position(if there is still such a law)like alot of ppl have said it used to be 6 mnths then you MUST be offerd a f/t perm pos? Also whats the law regarding if you have worked for the company for years and someone else has only worked for only a few months,doesnt have the same skills or experience than you but gets offerd a Perm.position before YOU! Especially when its obvious that the other person doesnt have anything over you whatsoever.Is there anything i can do in regards to me being overlooked when ive got more experience and 10x the length of time working for the company.Its obviously got some form of discrimination in this for sure.any advice is much appreciated,thankyou jc.

[SICK SS]

are you on a AWA or are you covered by a EA?

[minux]

By law you must now be on a probation period for 6 months, unless you are on an EBA or AWA. The employer at the end of this period DOES NOT have to employ you full time unless listed in the contract. Take a read throught he legislation, its worth it, even if it is some 1100 pages.

From a managers point of view, how do you know the person selected is not a better option? Do you monitor your own and every other workers conduct and activity? Are you aware of management are looking for when putting someone on fulltime?

These are just some of the factors managers look at, there are many others. The last place i worked i wanted to promote someone because he did his job very well, instead, i promoted a woman who was younger to the company but had more to offer simpyl because she did not whinge at any decisions that were made. The male said almost the exact you did, so i put it down to he was too busy caring what was going on with other people to worry about his own job. I fired him the day after i heard the conversation he was having with another worker.

[samuels]

hey ppl,i wanted to find out definativly what exactly the new ir laws are and how much thay have changed.My main question is : What is the laws regarding the length of time one has worked-and when you are suppose to be offered a permanent position(if there is still such a law)like alot of ppl have said it used to be 6 mnths then you MUST be offerd a f/t perm pos? Also whats the law regarding if you have worked for the company for years and someone else has only worked for only a few months,doesnt have the same skills or experience than you but gets offerd a Perm.position before YOU! Especially when its obvious that the other person doesnt have anything over you whatsoever.Is there anything i can do in regards to me being overlooked when ive got more experience and 10x the length of time working for the company.Its obviously got some form of discrimination in this for sure.any advice is much appreciated,thankyou jc.

under the old IR laws you would of been looked after by the discrimination board,but now....theres not much they can do,not even your union,it has to be a really serious breach of an IR law,before it's looked at.there have been some serious changes,and not for the better either.the only way to safeguard yourself is to have a contract drawn up by you and your employer,and negotiate like buggery,so that you have a job to stay with.
i didn't even know a rule existed for what you are asking,as far as i know an employer can hire you casually for life,he/she is not obligated in offering you a full time job,if they do,it only means they have to pay you less,as you wouldn't be casual anymore,no sick pay,no holidays,etc,etc,this maybe why you are still casual,money saving quest.

[MasterOfReality]

There are a few things you need to ask yourself:

1. Has that employee been offered a permanent role for exactly the same job?
2. Are you sure that he has less experience? He may have more experience in other areas which employers may look favorably upon.
3. What about qualifications? Time served in a job doesnt really mean much. In my case, I can walk into a minesite and pull rank on people that have been there for 25 years, and I'm 27 yo, but the difference is I have qualifications where it counts.
4. Are you on a union negotiated agreement or company award?

If you are on a union agreement and a member of the respective union, go and ask them what the go is. From what I have seen in the minesites, the unions only exist to protect their own interests, not the people they claim to represent. I have seen it time and time again, where workers become disgusted with the union movement because the union failed to stand up for them.

Also, read your agreement, whether you are in a eba or not!! Another problem is that a lot of workers usually take the union by their word and never bother reading the contract themselves.

[samuels]

There are a few things you need to ask yourself:

1. Has that employee been offered a permanent role for exactly the same job?
2. Are you sure that he has less experience? He may have more experience in other areas which employers may look favorably upon.
3. What about qualifications? Time served in a job doesnt really mean much. In my case, I can walk into a minesite and pull rank on people that have been there for 25 years, and I'm 27 yo, but the difference is I have qualifications where it counts.
4. Are you on a union negotiated agreement or company award?

If you are on a union agreement and a member of the respective union, go and ask them what the go is. From what I have seen in the minesites, the unions only exist to protect their own interests, not the people they claim to represent. I have seen it time and time again, where workers become disgusted with the union movement because the union failed to stand up for them.

Also, read your agreement, whether you are in a eba or not!! Another problem is that a lot of workers usually take the union by their word and never bother reading the contract themselves.

here...here couldn't agree more ,about unions,only there to bully and profit.i can tell you some union stories about our premier and former premier.

[minux]

here...here couldn't agree more ,about unions,only there to bully and profit.i can tell you some union stories about our premier and former premier.

i think you are watching the media hype a little too much, i am against unions, but i have seen them do some great things for workers. However, workers cant whinge about John Howard making these IR changes, it was your unions who forced them

[samuels]

i think you are watching the media hype a little too much, i am against unions, but i have seen them do some great things for workers. However, workers cant whinge about John Howard making these IR changes, it was your unions who forced them

well you are assuming wrong about me watching to much media,about unions,i know the premier and ex premier(now desceased) personally, as i have had union dealings with them when i was in the trucking union TWU,and the stories i could tell you,are down right criminal...i personally was threatened,by the late premiers brother...
as for the unions forcing these IR changes is totally untrue,this was on john howards agenda from day one,as was the firearms laws,whilst many will disagree,john howard has done some good for the welfare of all australians,with the exception of the IR reform,but lets not get into a political debate huh?
and i also know for a fact that the unions had no direct implementation of these reforms,as my missus's union, the textile and footwear union were furious when they were introduced,they said they would stand by their union members,to date,they have done nothing but take it on the chin from the federal government,and have not helped one member that needed help,there is a story behind this statement,but isn't relevent to this post.

[minux]

The IR reform is brilliant, for once in Australia you can now fire a worker from YOUR business because he is a tool/idiot/moron/useless/bludger should i keep going? Businesses should be allowed to be run the way the owner wants them run, not the way a worker wants it run, sooooo sooo many things have made the workplace much more competitive and cut throat and for the first time in a long time i am seeing people working their asses off and actually earning their money. The last position i held productivity was up amazingly compared to the previous 12 months, why, because people were threatened, for once workers HAVE to work.

Edit: i didnt say unions wanted the changes they FORCED the changes by using their pathetic tactics, govt got sick of them, what easier way to dispose of unions then to completely remove what they can do

[samuels]

The IR reform is brilliant, for once in Australia you can now fire a worker from YOUR business because he is a tool/idiot/moron/useless/bludger should i keep going? Businesses should be allowed to be run the way the owner wants them run, not the way a worker wants it run, sooooo sooo many things have made the workplace much more competitive and cut throat and for the first time in a long time i am seeing people working their asses off and actually earning their money. The last position i held productivity was up amazingly compared to the previous 12 months, why, because people were threatened, for once workers HAVE to work.

and you call that reform,that has been in for the last 100 years,iv'e seen people sacked for not performing to their best,being lazy,sky larking,and the list goes on,i also have seen companies fire people illigitimatly,for no reason at all,thats when the discrimination board was introduced,to protect the innocent,what you are talking about here is nothing new,whats new is,if your boss rang you up tonight, and asked you to work on saturday,for most this is not a problem,but for some it can be,you explain to your boss,that you can't because you thought it was your day off,and had commited to something else....family affairs,etc,etc,he can now turn around and say,well if you won't work saturday,don't bother coming in on monday,he is now covered under the IR reform laws,created by john howard

[samuels]

The IR reform is brilliant, for once in Australia you can now fire a worker from YOUR business because he is a tool/idiot/moron/useless/bludger should i keep going? Businesses should be allowed to be run the way the owner wants them run, not the way a worker wants it run, sooooo sooo many things have made the workplace much more competitive and cut throat and for the first time in a long time i am seeing people working their asses off and actually earning their money. The last position i held productivity was up amazingly compared to the previous 12 months, why, because people were threatened, for once workers HAVE to work.

Edit: i didnt say unions wanted the changes they FORCED the changes by using their pathetic tactics, govt got sick of them, what easier way to dispose of unions then to completely remove what they can do

what changes did they force? they had none to force,only the federal government forced the IR laws through,not the unions,if thats what your implying.or if i'm understanding you correctly.

[minux]

lol, you cant even understand a post, to even debate this with you is futile.

[samuels]

lol, you cant even understand a post, to even debate this with you is futile.

i asked you a simple question,what was forced by the unions?what pathetic tactics?
"Edit: i didnt say unions wanted the changes they FORCED the changes by using their pathetic tactics, govt got sick of them, what easier way to dispose of unions then to completely remove what they can do
what i am understanding from your post is.....unions didn't want the changes,but yet you say they forced the changes??? and using their pathetic tactics,and the government got sick of them,the government know they will never get rid of unions,they just made a law to prevent them from functioning to what they are suppose to do,but we all know unions never keep their word...

[samuels]

the day i see a union fighting for the rights of workers correctly,i will re-join one,as i said in a previous post,they do nothing but bully their members,take their union dues,and do nothing to protect the rights of the worker,they will have a few choice words,then leave it at that

[samuels]

i think you are watching the media hype a little too much, i am against unions, but i have seen them do some great things for workers. However, workers cant whinge about John Howard making these IR changes, it was your unions who forced them

so basically...this is a bit off topic,but it still implies IR reform,are you going to sit back and let your boss strip you of your annual leave pay(decreasing the amount thats actually owed to you) strip you of your annual leave loading,your RDO's,not oblidged to pay you overtime,change your pay rate without notice,strip you of any performance bonuses?all this IR reforms is about, is to increase the economy,at the workers expense..

[samuels]

lol, you cant even understand a post, to even debate this with you is futile.

Hmmm obviously you don't understand the IR laws fully,to even debate about it,so as you say,debating it with you.... is futile.

[minux]

Ok, i wasnt going to repost in here, but to say i dont know the IR reform package makes me laugh.

I just refuse to debate something with someone who PRESUMES to klnow everything.

[samuels]

Ok, i wasnt going to repost in here, but to say i dont know the IR reform package makes me laugh.

I just refuse to debate something with someone who PRESUMES to klnow everything.

duly noted and reported...thank you
and on that last note...you yourself actually make me laugh....you have no idea what so ever,the way you post,indesisive comments,indicate you know nothing much about the new IR reforms...
cheers

[vt1538]

Under the old laws the employer was being screwed.
We employed a trades assistant here who was employed to help me with the servicing of fuel tankers that we had a contract for. After he finished his time here of about six months I was asked to give him a resume. Not being of much value he was given a resume which detailed only the tasks he could accomplish so as not to prejudice his future employment prospects.
This little sh!tstain then went to industrial relations & complained about the AWA he was in saying he was underpaid when he was only paid $2 less an hor than me. The dumbfcuks at IR then decided that since he was doing some jobs a tradesman did (changing springs big deal)he should of been paid tradesmans rates. WTF. We ended up having to pay this useless turd a lump sum.

[Low_VX_Taxi]

I dont get why pplz are winging about workplace reforms? If your employer is going to sack you and employ someone cheaper do you really wanna work for them anyway? and if they want to get rid of you there is always other methods (stitch up for theft being very common). Honestly Im on an AWA and its IDENTICAL to a normal agreement, no loss of holiday pay or leave loading. I dont get overtime (only because im on salary), but I get higher pay levels than other people doing the same job on the old contracts!!!!! Yes i does suck that they have removed allota unions powers but I stand by the point of "If your boss is going to fire you for a cheaper worker do you really wanna work for a **** like that?

[samuels]

Under the old laws the employer was being screwed.
We employed a trades assistant here who was employed to help me with the servicing of fuel tankers that we had a contract for. After he finished his time here of about six months I was asked to give him a resume. Not being of much value he was given a resume which detailed only the tasks he could accomplish so as not to prejudice his future employment prospects.
This little sh!tstain then went to industrial relations & complained about the AWA he was in saying he was underpaid when he was only paid $2 less an hor than me. The dumbfcuks at IR then decided that since he was doing some jobs a tradesman did (changing springs big deal)he should of been paid tradesmans rates. WTF. We ended up having to pay this useless turd a lump sum.

seems weird,especially if he didn't have a tradesmans certificate.

[samuels]

I dont get why pplz are winging about workplace reforms? If your employer is going to sack you and employ someone cheaper do you really wanna work for them anyway? and if they want to get rid of you there is always other methods (stitch up for theft being very common). Honestly Im on an AWA and its IDENTICAL to a normal agreement, no loss of holiday pay or leave loading. I dont get overtime (only because im on salary), but I get higher pay levels than other people doing the same job on the old contracts!!!!! Yes i does suck that they have removed allota unions powers but I stand by the point of "If your boss is going to fire you for a cheaper worker do you really wanna work for a **** like that?

thats not really what it is all about,it's partly a part of it.as it was said earlier,it's performance based,experience,and IMO a cost savings to the employers,most of the entitlements you get now,will either be reduced,or even abolished,it depends how your union operates for you,but i have stated my views on unions,in the new reforms,you...yourself are going to have to aquire some very good negotiating skills to be able to keep any future employment,wages,overtime rates and the likes.

[Low_VX_Taxi]

thats not really what it is all about,it's partly a part of it.as it was said earlier,it's performance based,experience,and IMO a cost savings to the employers,most of the entitlements you get now,will either be reduced,or even abolished,it depends how your union operates for you,but i have stated my views on unions,in the new reforms,you...yourself are going to have to aquire some very good negotiating skills to be able to keep any future employment,wages,overtime rates and the likes.

Il juss reiterate as I dont think I was clear, I only recently signed my contracts (2 months now). They have given me BETTER entitlements comparatively to an old contract (I.E higher pay and leave loading without probationary period). My employer cant terminate me without 3 months notice and must supply a valid reason for termination unless its a serious offence (theft espionage etc). Additionally I recieve a higher level of pay for sick days (full wage rather than reduced)....

Also an employer when employing new staff will employ more qualified staff and more skilled persons over new untrained staff 9 times outta 10 for the simple fact that any savings in wages will be lost in training and education.

Maybe the other person being employed full time (over yourself being more skilled etc) is due to another factor such as association with the employer (family or friend etc)?

May I just add that im not a union member (but support their work and things they have achieved)

[samuels]

Il juss reiterate as I dont think I was clear, I only recently signed my contracts (2 months now). They have given me BETTER entitlements comparatively to an old contract (I.E higher pay and leave loading without probationary period). My employer cant terminate me without 3 months notice and must supply a valid reason for termination unless its a serious offence (theft espionage etc). Additionally I recieve a higher level of pay for sick days (full wage rather than reduced)....

Also an employer when employing new staff will employ more qualified staff and more skilled persons over new untrained staff 9 times outta 10 for the simple fact that any savings in wages will be lost in training and education.

Maybe the other person being employed full time (over yourself being more skilled etc) is due to another factor such as association with the employer (family or friend etc)?

May I just add that im not a union member (but support their work and things they have achieved)

well you are one of the safe ones then as many are going to lose sick pay...leave loading,have their pay reduced,due to experience,and there are a lot of people out there that aren't good at negotiating.

[Low_VX_Taxi]

well you are one of the safe ones then as many are going to lose sick pay...leave loading,have their pay reduced,due to experience,and there are a lot of people out there that aren't good at negotiating.

Im pretty lucky but I wouldnt work for anyone who wouldnt give me my basic entitlements. My suggestion is always read through a contract THOROUGHLY and if you believe its unfair dont accept it, or take it to ACA and embarrase the ****e outta the company. Also legally the employer must provide a 7 day cooling off period under the new legislation... If you arnt very skilled at negotiating talk to the union before the interview/contract signing, although they cant cover you legally they can give you advice and assist you in getting a fair go! Most are pretty happy to do this for free.