Why Melbourne Roads suck.

[Shounak]

I am sick of inefficient Melbourne roads. I've driven in different states and countries and I find Melbourne's to be absolutely pathetic.

My reasons. Speed camera's. Speeding ridiculously is bad, but whilst strict speed enforcement may seem a good idea in theory, it has a ripple effect which sucks for the roads. People now drive along at 10km/h under the speed limit in both the left and right lanes of roads. Countless times, I've been sandwiched behind slow moving vehicles (sometimes trucks), putting along slowly in the wrong lane.

Most other countries and states (at least NSW/QLD), it's fine to go 10km/h under the limit, as long as you're in the left lane.

If it weren't for the ridiculous policing and hefty fines, I doubt people would be travelling so damn slowly everywhere.

Also, the condition of the roads. The roads are a piece of crap. Pot holes, roughness and seemingly infinite roadworks achieving nothing. If only more roads could be as smooth and nice to drive on as many other places.

Lack of indicating. I've started to witness much more of this, drivers failing to indicate anywhere, whether it be entering a turning lane, changing lanes or approaching a roundabout.

When two people are facing opposite sides of the roundabout with no indicator, it's safe to assume both will go forward, I've had so many occasions of nearly being cleaned up by a right turner who failed to indicate. Or been cut off by someone just swinging into my lane, often on numerous occasions.

It's probably the obsession with speed which is causing the deterioration of drivers. Driving safely has got more to do with staying at 55km/h in a 60 zone, which was previously an 80km/h zone. A speed limit which has only been thrust upon it due to political reasons which seem good on paper.

Enough of a rant.. As a rider who's nearly been cleaned up on many occasions and been involved in 2 accidents within 5 months (neither of which my fault). I take bad drivers personally.

Anyone with me?

[minux]

Well, i have a few things to say here:

1. Melbournes roads are actually better than most states, look at the motorways you pay to drive on in Brisbane..atrocious, Sydney isn't much better.

2. Speed Cameras, well i am all for them, if it slows down traffic they are doing their job, perhaps a little bit of patience could be well learnt?

3. In most states of Australia you can travel in any lane providing the posted limit is over 80 (80 zones you can stay in whatever lane you feel), while it can be frustrating, for the most part people generally do the speed limit.

4. Indicating or lack thereof is bloody annoying, people seem to think its too hard to flick their hand over the indicator stalk, perhaps it is another laziness issue not sure.

Seriously, the best way to be on Melbourne roads is patient, going 10 km/h slower isn't really going to hurt anyone and providing they aren't in a 90 or 100 zone there is no law they are breaking. I get more annoyed with bike riders who try and lane split in impossible places and end up hitting cars and riding off. Backfires though when you pull up behind them at a set of lights and take a flashy photo of their reg

[Shounak]

1. Agreed that the quality of Melbourne roads are better than Sydney's. But Sydney roads are much more efficient. If I leave one place to go to another, I can generally go the speed limit in Sydney. People also respect the sanctity of a fast/slow lane there also.

2. In theory speed camera's are great. But I do think they are contributing to inefficient roads and drivers.

3. I know the 80km/h rule, but it should be changed and common courtesy should prevail. Stay in the left lane unless you're a.) overtaking or b.)about to make a right turn or c.) it's peak hour. It's respected in Sydney and just about anywhere oversea's.

I once knocked a guys mirror out of place a little bit with my mirror when I tried to split. I gave him a wave of apology and he waved back, didn't seem to mind at all. If a rider scratched my car, I'd hunt em. With a vengeance.

But on reasonably open roads, it's reasonable to expect to go the speed limit. Monkey's clogging up the roads going slowly because they think they're being "safe" drivers is damn right annoying and I feel like my $575.40 rego per annum is being thrown out the window.

btw: Upon reflection, I'm also guilty of some of these acts. Whenever I take the domain tunnel, I usually focus more on my speedo than the road. My dads been pinged about the 5km/h mark over the limit and I'm paranoid. There are plenty of downhill bits, where the car/bike always coasts over the speed limit, unless I'm vigilant with the brakes.

The speedo needle does not measure driving safety.. GRRRR

[azkwazere]

You cant winge about this **** you admit to lane splitting, i ride perfectly fine without having to split so i dont see why you need to... that and its illegal...

aZk.

[Shounak]

You cant winge about this **** you admit to lane splitting, i ride perfectly fine without having to split so i dont see why you need to... that and its illegal...

aZk.

1. It's not illegal. Find me an offence against lane splitting. You're probably going to dredge up, 1. Failing to indicate and 2. Overtaking too closely.

My splitting is done in a safe manner and I've split past cop cars numerous times and seen cop bikes split (and wait at traffic lights).

2. Splitting is safer, I've met people who have been rear ended by car who didn't see them. That's why my riding instructor said keep your bike in gear until the car is stopped behind you. After that you can fold your arms in neutral.

It has got a lot to do with safety. As a rider you should know that you should always have an exit strategy. Stopping in front of a stationary car is my strategy.

When you're sitting in line and someone's flying at you from behind, you tell me which one's more efficient.

I still don't understand your problem with splitting. It's legal gray area. Cops can possibly do something about it, but the vast vast majority won't do a thing. It's understood as a part of riding.

Again, I go back to efficiency of other roads. In London, riders are taught lane splitting as part of their training. Preaching about the evils of lane splitting is like preaching about the evils of exceeding the speed limit by 2km/h..

[minux]

Actually splitting in vic is now illegal from what i understand, change don July 1st or perhaps its July 1 next year. About time too.

Until it happens i will keep not leaving enough room for bikes to go through..if i have to wait so do they

[azkwazere]

Its just plain dangerous, being rear ended in traffic is a risk all road users take... i dont know what you wear when riding but ive never had the issue before.

Your riding into drivers blind spots, one swerve and your history..

I'm positive its illegal, someone said it once and it stuck... would have to ask a cop though.

London roads are very differnt to ours, i know how to split, but i dont just becasue i relise the dangers...

your riding in between cars where there really isnt space for it...

You should remain in the right hand section of the road (left if dual lane) so others can see you and avoid lane sharing...

you cant compare cops to normal riders anyway. they have there own rules.

aZk.

[Shounak]

Its just plain dangerous, being rear ended in traffic is a risk all road users take... i dont know what you wear when riding but ive never had the issue before.

Your riding into drivers blind spots, one swerve and your history..

I'm positive its illegal, someone said it once and it stuck... would have to ask a cop though.

London roads are very differnt to ours, i know how to split, but i dont just becasue i relise the dangers...

your riding in between cars where there really isnt space for it...

You should remain in the right hand section of the road (left if dual lane) so others can see you and avoid lane sharing...

you cant compare cops to normal riders anyway. they have there own rules.

aZk.

I ride in red and black leather, and it's just a precauation.

I have asked a cop. Numerous cops. Minux, read my above post. There's no law against lane splitting. Azk, I would be happy for you to prove me wrong.

There is space for it. I've been riding for a while and splitting has never caused me any problems. If I don't think there's enough space, I'll just wait.

I only split to the fronts of lights. I don't go splitting at 140kmh on the freeway. I just safely filter to the front and I'm gone by the time most people have realised the light is green (after doing a quick intersection scan).

My lane splitting has no effect on drivers and yes Azk, London roads are different. They're more congested and MUCH tighter than Melbourne roads. If you think there's not enough space to split here, don't even think about going to London.

Agreed about remaining in the right hand wheel track to avoid drivers from lane sharing.

And Minux. Yes you may think we're jumping the queue. But we have idiot drivers to deal with, bad weather, barely any safety. It's one of the benefits of riding and most people I know would rather sit in their toasty car when it's 5 degree's and showers outside.

Another thing Minux. When you close off a gap on one side for riders, it just opens a bigger gap up on the other side. It's often very helpful.

[Full Spectrum]

Anyone ever here of the guy that was on a motorbike coming up the inside of a car at the lights which were red when the passenger got out of the car and the bike rider slammed into the door?..

[Rhino Racing]

I agree with you all that there are some seriously crap drivers that are totally unaware of what is going on around them etc We have all seen both drivers and riders do some pretty stupid things on the road.
But unfortunately living in regional Queensland we can only dream to have roads half as good as yours to bitch and bleet about.
One of the guys from work cracked 2 rims on his WRX from hitting a major pothole after just a very small amount of rain had damaged the road.

[Morton]

Aaah Melbourne roads aren't that bad. I lived in Sydney for 9 months, and I have to say, those were the 9 worst motoring months of my life The roads make little or no sense, and the roadworks make little or no progress. Three lane highways merge into single lane collectors with short light cycles and endless lane expansions and merges. The only way around it is to use one of the five (?) congested tollways

Melbourne does suffer from speed/red light camera overdrive though. I would like to think I'm a safe driver, and I've never been stung by one - but I defy even the most sedate driver to not glance at their speedo as they pass through a surveyed intersection. Not to mention the panic freaks (presumably former victims) who will drop the anchors at the first sight of an amber light

I pass through numerous cameras on my daily to/from work drive - and I often find myself in the uneasy position of watching heavy traffic, my speedo, trucks, and trying to judge when the next set of lights will turn amber, and whether braking heavily will cause a tail-ender. It's a good little mental workout ^^

But I can't bitch. For the most part the roads I drive on (inner eastern suburbs) are old so well developed, that they're kept up right to scratch. That's the advantage of living inside Melbourne's "wealth belt" as they call it

[Lumps of cheese]

Melbourne roads crap??
Seriously, come for a drive down my way if you want to see crap roads.
Believe me, regional towns have put up with poor roads for years because victorian state governments ignore country victoria, princes highway from geelong to the south aussie border a prime example.

[Sabbath']

IAlso, the condition of the roads. The roads are a piece of crap. Pot holes, roughness and seemingly infinite roadworks achieving nothing. If only more roads could be as smooth and nice to drive on as many other places.

Anyone with me?

Im with ya man, on pretty much all of your points, but especially the roadworks one. The amount of bloody roadworks between Mulgrave and Ringwood, its either EastLink...or they're putting new bus lanes in or something, and they ALWAYS seem to be working on Stud Road, but still, if you get in the middle lane coming back past Carribean Gardens theres ruts for at least 50 metres, or how Wellington Road is not 60km the whole way to Stud...all the time...

[minux]

And Minux. Yes you may think we're jumping the queue. But we have idiot drivers to deal with, bad weather, barely any safety. It's one of the benefits of riding and most people I know would rather sit in their toasty car when it's 5 degree's and showers outside.

Another thing Minux. When you close off a gap on one side for riders, it just opens a bigger gap up on the other side. It's often very helpful.

Oh please, you CHOOSE to ride a bike then you suffer the consequences, bad weather well its your own fault for being on a bike, car drivers have to deal with just as many idiot riders who sit in your blindspot, damage your car riding past.

As for closing the gap, i wait till traffic comes to a stop and they are already splitting 10 cars behind, they cant go anywhere except sit in the middle of 2 lanes..

I suggest you read page 10 of this

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rd...derPartA06.pdf

[Shounak]

Oh please, you CHOOSE to ride a bike then you suffer the consequences, bad weather well its your own fault for being on a bike, car drivers have to deal with just as many idiot riders who sit in your blindspot, damage your car riding past.

As for closing the gap, i wait till traffic comes to a stop and they are already splitting 10 cars behind, they cant go anywhere except sit in the middle of 2 lanes..

I suggest you read page 10 of this

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rd...derPartA06.pdf

How many times has your car been damaged by riders splitting past? Filtering to the front of lights is one of the benefits of riding. It only affects you if a bad rider hits your car, which is as rare as a driver hitting your car. In any case, we have number plates you should write down.

And I read that book when I got my rider learners. It says splitting between MOVING cars is illegal. I split between stationary cars at traffic lights... You will notice that the handbook makes no mention of splitting to the front of traffic lights.

Believe me, there's always a way to the front of the lights. I'll take you on the back of my bike sometime if you want to see. I have a small sportsbike, it's very nimble. I can fit just about anywhere.

If I was filtering to the front, I'd see you do it a few cars back and I'd change my line of approach. It's something which you learn when you spend time on two wheels.

[minux]

How many times has your car been damaged by riders splitting past? Filtering to the front of lights is one of the benefits of riding. It only affects you if a bad rider hits your car, which is as rare as a driver hitting your car. In any case, we have number plates you should write down.

And I read that book when I got my rider learners. It says splitting between MOVING cars is illegal. I split between stationary cars at traffic lights... You will notice that the handbook makes no mention of splitting to the front of traffic lights.

Believe me, there's always a way to the front of the lights. I'll take you on the back of my bike sometime if you want to see. I have a small sportsbike, it's very nimble. I can fit just about anywhere.

If I was filtering to the front, I'd see you do it a few cars back and I'd change my line of approach. It's something which you learn when you spend time on two wheels.

ok, so lane splitting is a grey area, my bad for not reading "moving" although, watch how many bikes split in slow moving traffic. I do not need to come riding with you, i rode for 5 years before having a big accident and hanging up my boots. I never did lane split though, did not see the point, especially when you see guys king hit with a crowbar etc by angry car drivers.

For the record, my car has been hit twice, once the guys number plate was unreadable, so we simply followed him back to his house, **** himself when 4 guys walked up his driveway behind him...can't ride away then. Second time the ******** fell off and was almost run over by a car in another lane. It is why i try and block off any riders doing it. If riders were patient and sat behind cars and not in blindspots all the time things would be great!! Won't happen though.

[Reaper]

1. It's not illegal. Find me an offence against lane splitting. You're probably going to dredge up, 1. Failing to indicate and 2. Overtaking too closely.

I'll dredge up overtaking on the left.

I still don't understand your problem with splitting. It's legal gray area. Cops can possibly do something about it, but the vast vast majority won't do a thing.

Rubbish. There is no gray area what so ever. You posted 2 offenses yourself and I added a 3rd. Just because you get away with it doesn't mean it's legal.

Again, I go back to efficiency of other roads. In London, riders are taught lane splitting as part of their training. Preaching about the evils of lane splitting is like preaching about the evils of exceeding the speed limit by 2km/h..

More crap. In the past I have had my mirrors knocked off and on another occasion I saw some dh skittled when a semi swerved (within its lane) due to another car cutting him off. All the traffic was doing around 60 along the freeway and the bike was lane splitting because he was impatient. Obviously the whole concept is just an excuse from impatient bike riders to jump the queue on other traffic.

Reaper

[Julie]

I can't comment on what Melbourne roads are like having never been to Melbourne, but heres something to ponder- Shounak do you think maybe people like yourself who frequently break road rules would be right up there on someone elses list of why Melbourne roads suck?

Fyi, I know I'm not in Melbourne but for this arguement its irrelevent but I too have had my mirrors hit by an impatient careless arsehole bike rider.

[Sabbath']

Personally, i dont have a problem with lane splitting motor cyclists aslong as its done safely. On most occasions if i can, i will move to the extreme boundry of my lane in the opposite direction if i see one coming, give a little, take a little.

Quite often when i do that, i get a wave of thanks from the motorcyclist so

[Shounak]

I know about the rules relating to lane splitting and I do it in a legal manner. Overtaking too closely is arbitrary. And the indication comes to let people know that I'm about to start splitting.

Believe me, if done properly it's perfectly acceptable. I doubt bored TMU or other cops would let it slide otherwise.

What road rules do I frequently break Julie? Are you going to back up your claim with a fact?

BTW, I hate riders who hit people's mirrors/cars, just as much as you do.

And Reaper, the reason I say it's legal gray area is because it can be done legally. Some say its illegal and other say it's not. Look above, people are 100% certain that lane splitting is illegal.

Why then isn't the road safety act amended to make lane splitting/filtering a specific offence and illegal? If there was a specific offence against it, I would not be doing it. Because there isn't, it's legal grey area. Something if I got written up for, I would fight.

[Reaper]

I know about the rules relating to lane splitting and I do it in a legal manner. Overtaking too closely is arbitrary. And the indication comes to let people know that I'm about to start splitting.

Believe me, if done properly it's perfectly acceptable. I doubt bored TMU or other cops would let it slide otherwise.

What road rules do I frequently break Julie? Are you going to back up your claim with a fact?

BTW, I hate riders who hit people's mirrors/cars, just as much as you do.

And Reaper, the reason I say it's legal gray area is because it can be done legally. Some say its illegal and other say it's not. Look above, people are 100% certain that lane splitting is illegal.

Why then isn't the road safety act amended to make lane splitting/filtering a specific offence and illegal? If there was a specific offence against it, I would not be doing it. Because there isn't, it's legal grey area. Something if I got written up for, I would fight.

You still haven't shown any road rule which says it's legal but several have been quoted (plus the motorcycle handbook) which explicitly says it isn't. There is nothing gray about it.

Your argument is nonsensical. It is like saying there is no specific law against jumping your car over the railway lines but we all know many laws indirectly apply such as speeding, dangerous/careless driving etc etc etc.

Reaper

[AirStrike]

So Melbourne roads suck because you can't safely break the law......

[Julie]

What road rules do I frequently break Julie? Are you going to back up your claim with a fact?

Well obviously I can't exactly go following you around stalking you with a camera recording how you drive so I can hardly prove this as a 'fact'. So taking that into consideation, my comments were made using the impression you give with your posts.

Ok lane splitting which I and even coppers have interpreted as being illegal (refer to ask the copper thread) aside:

There are plenty of downhill bits, where the car/bike always coasts over the speed limit, unless I'm vigilant with the brakes.

Another thing Minux. When you close off a gap on one side for riders, it just opens a bigger gap up on the other side. It's often very helpful.

I pretty much have to run this red light anytime I go when there aren't cars around (ie. night).

I ran it last night again and a divvy van drove past so it got me thinking. Would my excuse get me out of the $215, 3 point TIN?

[Shounak]

You still haven't shown any road rule which says it's legal but several have been quoted (plus the motorcycle handbook) which explicitly says it isn't. There is nothing gray about it.

Your argument is nonsensical. It is like saying there is no specific law against jumping your car over the railway lines but we all know many laws indirectly apply such as speeding, dangerous/careless driving etc etc etc.

Reaper

That's not how the legal system works. You have to show how I'm in contravention of legislation for it to be illegal.

ie. It was legal to ride around on those little mini-motorbikes/choppers about 7 years ago, until they specifically outlawed it.

I haven't found anything that says it's legal, but you haven't found anything that says it's illegal.

The motorcycle handbook (which I pretty much know backwards) talks about splitting between moving cars. You have to ask why they didn't mention stationary cars, which is what I do. I don't split through moving cars for the obvious safety reasons.

My argument is not nonsensical at all. For an act to be illegal, it must be legislated against. The failure to legislate against it makes the act legal. Unless the act is outlawed, there's nothing wrong with it.

It's like if a supervising driver (to a learner) allows the learner to go 200km/h. The supervising driver cannot be charged with anything. Because there is no legislation which prescribes a penalty for it. Therefore it's not illegal or it is legal.

[Shounak]

Well obviously I can't exactly go following you around stalking you with a camera recording how you drive so I can hardly prove this as a 'fact'. So taking that into consideation, my comments were made using the impression you give with your posts.

Ok lane splitting which I and even coppers have interpreted as being illegal (refer to ask the copper thread) aside:

Where the copper has interpreted? The police are only one aspect of the Criminal justice system. A police's interpretation of the law is not final. They have to explain that interpretation to a magistrate and if a magistrate doesn't agree with their interpretation, they don't have a leg to stand on.

There is no law against lane splitting here. AFAIK only Helly gave an answer on the topic of splitting in the other thread. Those are NSW laws, which are different to Vic.

LOL Julie. I highly doubt you'd sit at a traffic light all night if it didn't turn green.

Do you realise what you've just done? You've accused me of a crime that you don't even know is a crime. Other people have said it's a crime, so you've immediately gone and accused me of it.

Of course you didn't bother checking whether or not it's a crime. You've just gone and started pointing the finger.

When I pulled you up on it, you've gone and dredged into the past and tried to find any example you could of me breaking a rule to show that you were justified in pointing the finger.

It's not my breaking the rules which is the issue here, it's your need to feel self righteous. Next time you accuse me of something, 1. Be sure I'm doing it. 2.Make sure you know exactly what it is.

Seeing as you've never been to Melbourne, I don't think you have anything to actually add to this thread.

edit: Why do you need to prove I'm doing the wrong thing so much? Either by analysing my posts or following me around recording my driving. This is not about my driving, I'm commenting on the quality of the roads in a macro sense. Get on with your bloody life.