Johnny's ol Proposal!

[JD]

Everyone on here ( the intelligent ones anyway ) would've seen the news about John Howards proposal to have a referendum on Aboriginal rights.

Question is should it be done or should it be passed without one?

Also is this to little too late for Johnny?

I don't think it should because the Aboriginal people should already be included in the Constitution as they were here first and they should be shown respect considering all they have been through.

I also believe that there should be a Aboriginal PM, not a white one as it's there country, we invaded them, not the other way around.

Whats your opinion?

[stocky]

I also believe that there should be a Aboriginal PM, not a white one as it's there country, we invaded them, not the other way around.

if the people of this country want an aboriginal PM, we'll vote for one. what has race got to do with who should run this country?

[bangers]

from what i've been lead to believe from history the aboriginals weren't first here. there was a race here before them. through-out history countries have been taken over by horrible means. do you see palestine saying to the jews "here's your land back, you had it first". No. We've been nicer to them then other countries that have been invaded. I love the blacks and have a lot of respect for their culture. Hell i live amongst heaps of them. but at the end of the day we came and conquered.

[calais_304]

I also believe that there should be a Aboriginal PM, not a white one as it's there country, we invaded them, not the other way around.

What the hell, i never invaded them, get off the crack son you got no idea.

[Spaced]

Speaking to the missus this morning about this.

Prime minister cannot ammend the constitution without a referendum. Even if it makes sense, has to be passed by the majority.

Personally I don't think it's anything but pre-election crap. He's just working on the opinion polls. If he really gave a **** he'd just say "Sorry" and we could get on with our lives.

I don't care who runs this country so long as they have the Australian people's intersests in front of big business and other countries i.e. America.

do you see palestine saying to the jews "here's your land back, you had it first". No.

Weren't Palestine evicted from Gaza by the Jews? Don't know the full story. But the Palestinaians are refugees

[minux]

Everyone on here ( the intelligent ones anyway ) would've seen the news about John Howards proposal to have a referendum on Aboriginal rights.

Question is should it be done or should it be passed without one?

Also is this to little too late for Johnny?

I don't think it should because the Aboriginal people should already be included in the Constitution as they were here first and they should be shown respect considering all they have been through.

I also believe that there should be a Aboriginal PM, not a white one as it's there country, we invaded them, not the other way around.

Whats your opinion?

LMAO, what a funny post. The referendum should be held, for one reason or another people have differing views. As for an aboriginal PM, if one decent enough comes along worth voting for then sure, but most aboriginal politicians are only interested in making things better for their people, not the entire populous. Could you imagine the land claims coming through and passed simply because a dog bone was found somewhere? I am not being an arse by any means, i just do not think there are any aboriginals socially mature enough to handle being the PM. The last thing i would want to see is one of those 1/100th aboriginals who claim they are so hard done by etc yet haven't had any true aboriginal ancestry for 100 years come into power.

[hingo1983]

I don't see why the PM should have to apologise on my behalf for something which I had no part in. Its a joke. Many terrible things have happened throughout history and it wouldn't even be a problem right now if people simply got over it. Whats done is done and there it doesn't benefit anyone to dwell on something that happened long ago.

I think the financial and medical benefits that taxpayers like me are giving Aboriginal people right now is more than enough justification.

[minux]

Speaking to the missus this morning about this.
Prime minister cannot ammend the constitution without a referendum. Even if it makes sense, has to be passed by the majority.
Personally I don't think it's anything but pre-election crap. He's just working on the opinion polls. If he really gave a **** he'd just say "Sorry" and we could get on with our lives.
I don't care who runs this country so long as they have the Australian people's intersests in front of big business and other countries i.e. America.

Why should he say sorry? What did he do to them? Why should any of us say sorry for anything? I know i haven't done anything wrong. Explain why John Howard should say sorry.

Weren't Palestine evicted from Gaza by the Jews? Don't know the full story. But the Palestinaians are refugees

Erm, how can you make that comment without knowing the full story?

Really, no one owns the Israel area, it has been fought over for 2 thousand years on who should have control. However, in 1947 i think, the UN decided to give a present to the Jews which made it even worse. In a way Palestinians are the refugees, but in reality, the land has been fought over for that long who knows whose it is.
If you want to know who really owns the land, read the varying god botherer books by the each of the religions, they all say different things

Anyways, i think i have found a new topic for a thread

[minux]

I don't see why the PM should have to apologise on my behalf for something which I had no part in. Its a joke. Many terrible things have happened throughout history and it wouldn't even be a problem right now if people simply got over it. Whats done is done and there it doesn't benefit anyone to dwell on something that happened long ago.

I think the financial and medical benefits that taxpayers like me are giving Aboriginal people right now is more than enough justification.

I am going to sound contradictory here, simply because of my above post where i have asked a member why he should say sorry (only because no justification was made).

I think for records sake someone needs to apoligise for whatever has happened, that way its on record, the government cans stop using it as a political leverage. As for financial and medical benefits...well i think they should be provided in different forms. Even stamp style, but this should be done for ALL Australians.

[vt1538]

Sorry for what? This whole issue is a joke IMO. Johnie must be really worried about this election to be aiming for the bleeding heart vote.

[hingo1983]

Sounds good minux

[Spaced]

Why should he say sorry? What did he do to them? Why should any of us say sorry for anything? I know i haven't done anything wrong. Explain why John Howard should say sorry.

Why shouldn't he say sorry? He's a representative of the govt. It is the government of the time who displaced the aboriginal people, forced them in to slavery and killed thousands. I don't see it being anything different to Turkey owning up to their attrocities or the Japanese enslaving women.

[Spaced]

I am going to sound contradictory here, simply because of my above post where i have asked a member why he should say sorry (only because no justification was made).

I think for records sake someone needs to apoligise for whatever has happened, that way its on record, the government cans stop using it as a political leverage. As for financial and medical benefits...well i think they should be provided in different forms. Even stamp style, but this should be done for ALL Australians.

Point justified.

It's clear that in remote communities. A lot of aboriginal people aren't receiving funding. This is why Atsic was disbanded because it was full of corruption. Maybe when they went to the doctor or specialist etc it was paid by a trust fun managed by the govt as apposed to handing out cash.

[vt1538]

Why shouldn't he say sorry? He's a representative of the govt. It is the government of the time who displaced the aboriginal people, forced them in to slavery and killed thousands. I don't see it being anything different to Turkey owning up to their attrocities or the Japanese enslaving women.

WTF. That was the British Govt. Where was this slavery in the 1900's.

[Spaced]

WTF. That was the British Govt. Where was this slavery in the 1900's.

Working on properties. When were aborignal children displaced?

[hingo1983]

So the benefits Aboriginal people get don't mean anything Spaced? Damn, I wish I could be so lucky to get my own health and education systems and not have to pay a dime. If we do apologise, and if the Aboriginals want to be treated equal, then we should strip all benefits and make them fork out their own money like every other hard working Aussie. Lets see how long they would last then.

Sure its hard to try and adapt to white society, but it has been hundreds of years and a large majority of Aboriginals are still unwilling to work with white Australians. I think the funding they are given makes them lazy. I would be lazy too if I got paid for doing nothing. It sends out the wrong message.

I'm not sayng all Aboriginals are like this, there are quite a few genuine hard working Aboriginals, but they are a minority unfortunately.

[minux]

Why shouldn't he say sorry? He's a representative of the govt. It is the government of the time who displaced the aboriginal people, forced them in to slavery and killed thousands. I don't see it being anything different to Turkey owning up to their attrocities or the Japanese enslaving women.

Just as they killed thousands of the white folk. Turkey is a whole different kettle of fish really. If anything Britian should apoligise rather than Australia, it was not our choice that Britian decided to land here and colonise.

Someone stated about funding etc, i don't know if it is now changed, but i remember aboriginal soldiers got more pay being in the army..it was great for morale.

Considering what other countries do/did for their native folk, i think aboriginals get it pretty good, it is just they make bad decisions with how they have handled it.

[jules]

Sorry for what? This whole issue is a joke IMO. Johnie must be really worried about this election to be aiming for the bleeding heart vote.

the mistreatment of aborigines was committed by officials at the time representing australia.

saying it's got nothing to do with us is no different to saying the diggers in ww2 have nothing to do with us and we don't have to thank them.

you, nor i or john howard needs to personally apologise to aborigines. but it's a part of australian history and should be officially recognised and acknowledged.

no country is perfect. there's no shame in acknowledging mistakes. we've got a lot to be proud of as a nation and no reason to try and cover things up.

[minux]

the mistreatment of aborigines was committed by officials at the time representing australia.

saying it's got nothing to do with us is no different to saying the diggers in ww2 have nothing to do with us and we don't have to thank them.

you, nor i or john howard needs to personally apologise to aborigines. but it's a part of australian history and should be officially recognised and acknowledged.

no country is perfect. there's no shame in acknowledging mistakes. we've got a lot to be proud of as a nation and no reason to try and cover things up.

Well said, acknowledgement should be made, that being said, from what my eyes acknowledgement has been made.

[Emackulation]

I fail to comprehend the depth you guys discuss this matter. All that I think about it is that JH is trying to pull more votes from the Aboriginal people to secure his election win? He must be getting worried as vt1538 said.

[jules]

Really, no one owns the Israel area, it has been fought over for 2 thousand years on who should have control. However, in 1947 i think, the UN decided to give a present to the Jews which made it even worse. In a way Palestinians are the refugees, but in reality, the land has been fought over for that long who knows whose it is.
If you want to know who really owns the land, read the varying god botherer books by the each of the religions, they all say different things

Anyways, i think i have found a new topic for a thread

sorry for getting further off topic but political history is a hobby of mine

palestine was originally inhabited long ago in jesus' time by a range of people including jews, but was not a nation in the modern sense of the word.

with arab rule over the middle east, jewish people progressively migrated mostly to western europe over a long period of time.

in the early 20th century, anti semitism in europe, particularly fascist germany but including other countries such as britain, was a major factor in driving the jewish community to resettle in palestine which was under british rule.

my biggest problem with zionism (jewish settlement of israel at the exclusion of other ethnic or religious groups) is that initially, there was no arab terrorism or major violence. they mostly lived side by side.

it was only when it became clear that jewish resettlement was more ambitious than just living side by side that arabs progressively took more violent action against jewish settlers, who were certainly not pacifists either.

after declaration of the state of israel in 1947 by the UN, israeli forces 'encouraged' palestinians to leave the country, and most did.

the rest is well documented history and a good example of how not to start a new country, or try to rectify the situation. there are no (or few) good guys in this conflict and both sides have a long and shameful history of electing or supporting bloodthirsty, cynical and corrupt leaders who have done little to achieve peace.

the big problem is that one of these two sides has a hugely disproportionate influence in the US and the story is consistently mistold in their favour.

[hingo1983]

I fail to comprehend the depth you guys discuss this matter. All that I think about it is that JH is trying to pull more votes from the Aboriginal people to secure his election win? He must be getting worried as vt1538 said.

What would be the point of winning over the Aboriginal voters? For a start, there aren't enough of them to really make a difference in the polls, and secondly, a large number of them wouldn't vote anyway. If anything, he would be trying to win over the leftie greenie pinko morons who made this such a big issue to start with - again, another pointless exercise.

[Spaced]

@ Jules, thanks for that comprehensive write up.

Haha at hingo what the **** is a "pinko" - do you mean a communist?

[Garth]

for me to say sorry for something i didnt do is absoultly insane. i for one shall not be saying sorry.

but to recognize the aboriginals in our consitution well, that is somethign that should have been done a long time ago. it is yet another stunt by howard, i do-not belive him.

[vt1538]

for me to say sorry for something i didnt do is absoultly insane. i for one shall not be saying sorry.

but to recognize the aboriginals in our consitution well, that is somethign that should have been done a long time ago. it is yet another stunt by howard, i do-not belive him.

In what way are aboriginals not recognised in the constitution. Pardon my ignorance but if we have been throwing billions into the bottomless pit of housing, health & education we must be recognising something.
This whole thing IMO is as big a farce as banning the death penalty in asia. Nothing but political grandstanding for a bit of publicity & a few votes.