I.T Field

[Tekka]

So im half way through my diploma of I.T network engineering which is only a 1 year course through T.A.F.E. I'm planning on going to uni next year to upgrade it to a degree. What my question is are there any of you people that are in the I.T field and what are it's ups and downs and some hints and tips to succeed in the industry.


Thanks!!

[sixshooter]

Gee... sounds like you don't have to do much study up QLD to get a Diploma !

How many years fulltime do you need after to gain a Degree ? What Degree's are available for networking? Computer Science Degree's are heavily into programming are they not?

Sorry I'm not in the networking field so I can't say what to look out for... Except that if you go to Uni to do a "Degree in Computer Science" you should learn to program in at least one common language like JAVA and gain some understanding of the most used concepts of programming such as OOP (Object Orientated Programming) cause then all you'll need to know is the differences between languages which is the most annoying hair tearing bit.

I was half way through a 2year Programming Diploma, but I had to leave it due to personal family reasons. I may go back someday, but my interest in programming has waned considerably. Learning 7 languages all at once is not much fun!

[Tom_1569]

Im looking at doing the same thing, i want to get into networking to. Im currently doing cert IV, as no one offers the diploma down here, sheez i travel 2 hours each way just to do cert IV, and like today i got their to find out class in cancelled, NOT HAPPY

[Tekka]

The diploma of networking is 1 year full time which is equivalent to first year at uni, so if i go next year i will be into my 2nd year of a 3 year degree.

In the degree i can choose to major in network & security which is what im interested in however there is some programming involved aswell. there are multiple I.T degrees available some which are just programming.

[stocky]

how the heck does 1 year of tafe = 1 year of uni? what a rip to the uni students

[Tom_1569]

how the heck does 1 year of tafe = 1 year of uni? what a rip to the uni students

Hows this for a rip. I failed year 10 (medical absense) and only completed half of year 11. Now doing cert IV, and the unis class that higher then doing year 12 lol. So after all the **** i went through with school, ill still be going to uni with my mates.

[VN_Luke]

how the heck does 1 year of tafe = 1 year of uni? what a rip to the uni students

at tafe, you only do 5% of the drinking you do at uni , so first year brings you to the same level really.

[levymetal]

how the heck does 1 year of tafe = 1 year of uni? what a rip to the uni students

Check this out, some guy did the Advanced Diploma of Computer Science (this is the course I am doing at the moment) which is a 2 year course, and he went to uni and got 2 years off a Bachelor of Computer Science... Generally though you can get 1.5 years off uni with the Advanced Diploma.

But yeah, I'm looking into getting into the networking field. I've always loved programming, but that's hard to get into without a degree. With my course I get the chance to do CCNP 2 and 4, and I will have completed full CCNA so I guess I'll have a better chance going into networking than programming. Plus me and my mates got kicked out of programming for the semester for making lots of noise, so we've done nothing since then and our results will probably be ****house. Teacher says we can get all the info off Tafe VC, and now we have an assignment due next week and she removed all the notes so what the ****. How can we do anything. We're doing flex anyway and I don't really like flex.

Don't want to go to uni, sick of studying, out of money, I just want to work.

[padrickz88]

yeah the diploma used to be a 2 year, but at my uni (rmit) they changed it to a 1 year course.... i always remember people telling em to do tafe because its more hands on, well i touched the inside of a computer twice in a whole year.

was nooooooot happy because i was fixing computers more at high school ina class they were running...


as you can guess im over I.T and sick of it going for something else now...

[CSP]

Been in IT since 1998 (except for my stint as an Officer in the RAAF) and I'm now a Senior Software Engineer for a global Biometrics company. Barely passed Year 12, never been to TAFE of Uni. I've done some courses that various employers have put me through but that's it.

Experience counts for a LOT more than education when it comes to IT. If you have 4 years experience and can demonstrate you have the ability and experience necessary to do the job, I'll hire you over someone that spent 4 years at Uni.

Want my advice? Get some experience on an IT Help Desk. Government work is best. Work hard and be good at that for a year and then move onto Desktop Support. Once you have 2 - 4 years in IT Support and some specialisation certificates (CCNA for example), you'll be making a lot more than your uni graduate mates!

Part of the problem I find these days with the Y-gens is they just want easy money and think IT is a way to do it. It's not. You need to love what you do. The more you love your work and dedicate yourself to it, put in the hard yards and show commitment and good work ethic, the more success and satisfaction you will achieve. Follow the money, and think it's all meant to be easy and you're in for a shock!

[levymetal]

Didn't you tell me to learn java or something and you'd pay me 60k a year straight out of my course?

[CSP]

Didn't you tell me to learn java or something and you'd pay me 60k a year straight out of my course?

If you can demonstrate your expertise and profficiency in Java, YES!

[Ra1d]

i fell into the typical gen y trap and did about 18 months of I.T majoring in networking at uni. some of it was interesting but all the mathematics and theory was just too monotonous after a while. The first year alone had 3/4 different types of maths units, along with programming in C and computer engineering. all that and i only had 1 class when i would actually be at a computer. i wouldnt recommend going into uni and getting rpl if you have a certIV. use it and work your way up. i met quite a few postgrads with masters and honours in I.T that still couldnt get the job (or salary) they wanted, not in aus anyway. GL

[Tekka]

Thanks for all the input guys, and slow poke I've heard that experience counts for more than some one with a piece of paper as well. I don't want to go to uni and start the course and get 6 months into it and realize its way to hard and then have a hex debt. I want to start at the bottom like you said and work on some help desk and work my way through the i.t industry.

The only bad thing about studying is the lack of cash flow, however the way i see it is i should make sacrifices now while I am young and at home and benefit from them in the future.

[ProphetVX]

i fell into the typical gen y trap and did about 18 months of I.T majoring in networking at uni. some of it was interesting but all the mathematics and theory was just too monotonous after a while. The first year alone had 3/4 different types of maths units, along with programming in C and computer engineering. all that and i only had 1 class when i would actually be at a computer. i wouldnt recommend going into uni and getting rpl if you have a certIV. use it and work your way up. i met quite a few postgrads with masters and honours in I.T that still couldnt get the job (or salary) they wanted, not in aus anyway. GL

I did 4 mathematics subjects in my entire time at uni (4 years) and have a degree in computer science.

Most of that is logic, which is essential for applying to programming. It's so dependant on the university you goto. Some are focussed on the mathematics, some are focussed on teaching that mathematics through it's applications in developing software.

I beg to differ on the IT job market these days... There is a massive shortage of qualified IT graduates in Australia, and many companies are outsourcing their projects overseas because they cannot find the workers here.

[50LTRv8]

Been in IT since 1998 (except for my stint as an Officer in the RAAF) and I'm now a Senior Software Engineer for a global Biometrics company. Barely passed Year 12, never been to TAFE of Uni. I've done some courses that various employers have put me through but that's it.

Experience counts for a LOT more than education when it comes to IT. If you have 4 years experience and can demonstrate you have the ability and experience necessary to do the job, I'll hire you over someone that spent 4 years at Uni.

Want my advice? Get some experience on an IT Help Desk. Government work is best. Work hard and be good at that for a year and then move onto Desktop Support. Once you have 2 - 4 years in IT Support and some specialisation certificates (CCNA for example), you'll be making a lot more than your uni graduate mates!

Part of the problem I find these days with the Y-gens is they just want easy money and think IT is a way to do it. It's not. You need to love what you do. The more you love your work and dedicate yourself to it, put in the hard yards and show commitment and good work ethic, the more success and satisfaction you will achieve. Follow the money, and think it's all meant to be easy and you're in for a shock!

Agreed

Only a TAFE diploma for me (Just got Network+ at the request of my employer). I have got far more out of on the job training than I ever could and due to this have been promoted just through hard work.

I was working on a helpdesk not too long ago trying to train a gen Y. He fell asleep within the first 10 min of me giving him a general run down on how the desk operates (I was a team leader at the time). It just showed that he wasn't really keen at all and he didn't care much. His contract was not renewd. I pretty much followed CSP's post, started out on a small helpdesk for Hastings Council and moved on from there.

One thing though. i have found it much better if you can get a job doing various things, not just networking. EG, I have to maintain 12 servers, do cable runs, assist other staff on request, networking, setting up laptops for presentations ect. It makes the day more varied as opposed to just working with cisco switches all day.

50LTRv8

[VN_Luke]

many companies are outsourcing their projects overseas because they cannot find the workers here.

The fact that you can get an 'experienced' team of 20 software developers overseas for the same price as one bloke straight out of uni locally probably has something to do with it too!

Though some of the code i've seen that has been cut oversees might as well have been written by 200 cats duct taped together and thrown at a keyboard.

I think to succeeed in the IT industry, you need to be able to LEARN constantly! - it's not something you can read a book about or pass a few tests and be 'set'. - always be willing to listen to other poeple's ideas/opinions - as they might just have some very good suggestions - and these people won't always be your 'senior' either.

In my experience I've found that people I've worked with either 'have it' or they don't - the ones that don't usually either end up changing careers, or sticking with the one job for ages and putting politics to use to make up for their lack of technical ability

the ones that 'have it' are the ones that say "I'm not entierly sure what this strange technology is, but you give me a pc and internet connection and I'll work it out over the next half hour" in the interview!

[ProphetVX]

The fact that you can get an 'experienced' team of 20 software developers overseas for the same price as one bloke straight out of uni locally probably has something to do with it too!

Though some of the code i've seen that has been cut oversees might as well have been written by 200 cats duct taped together and thrown at a keyboard.

In my experience it has little to do with it. Correspondance, organisation, language barriers and general lack of "quality" education mean that the job takes more time, gives management more headaches and is asking for trouble. I've worked in companies that have outsourced projects, and it had little to do with it being cheaper. There is a real shortage in australia of qualified graduates, and no shortage in china or india. Most people I've dealt with would rather hire locally but the supply simply isn't there anymore. About 5-6 years ago there weren't enough jobs, now there is too many. As a result salaries are skyrocketing.

[tommo82]

Hi Tekka.

My advice is simple - just get plenty of work experience while you study. I will refer to that later.

Specifically referring to networking, you could go a couple of ways. I have to generalise a little bit - obviously there are exceptions.

TAFE network engineering courses usually lead to more hands on roles like physical rollouts, configuring network equipment, operational roles (e.g. monitoring / alarms) , helpdesk, things like that. Again, I'm generalising.

You said you are going to upgrade your engineering diploma to a degree, so I will assume you mean a Bachelor of Engineering. I did this course (Electrical and Communications Engineering) and enjoyed it. It's a bloody hard slog, especially the level of maths. However, it teaches you a very broad range of skills which touch almost all engineering disciplines. It means you become very 'portable'. You don't have to go into a networking field.

The company I work at is a large Research & Development and manufacturing company for Telecommunications equipment (among many other lines of business), and our engineers come from all backgrounds: electrical, mechanical, software, etc. Reading this backwards, it means your chosen engineering degree equips you to work in most other engineering fields because it's largely a principles based study.

This is why I recommend engineering.

Alot of engineers don't end up in really low level hands on roles like the configuration ones I mentioned above. They tend to operate at higher levels in the organisation (I don't necessarily mean rank-wise, and not always at the 'coal-face').

Pre-sales is a great area to get into. It's a combination of technical/engineering and people skills (sales). I walked into a pre-sales role in Telstra when I finished Uni and it was possibly the best decision I ever made.

Before that at Uni I started a small Internet provider to pay my HECS debt (). If you have a chance to work for yourself at any stage while studying, do it. If you stuff it up, who cares. You only get that chance now, before you have heaps of committments. Also, it really looks good on resumes.

IT Ups and Downs?

It depends what your definition of "IT" is. There is a flood of people coming onto the market at the moment with basic vendor certifications like CCNA. Assume everyone is as paper qualified as you are. The differentiator will be work experience.

I managed to find vacation work / work experience every summer for 4 years during my degree and it proved valuable for a couple of reasons:

1. allowed me to walk into a job. It really helps when you understand the businesses & industry that you're applying for jobs in.
2. built up a great network of contacts in what's a very small and circular industry in australia (telecommunications at least).

I've moved more into the Sales/solutions side of things now. Complex products so you need engineers to sell them But I still get involved in the deep technical stuff sometimes like network architecture etc.

It's a pity you aren't in Melbourne - we regularly take students in for work experience programs. We have about 200 R&D engineers so there are some good possibilities.

good luck.

[tommo82]

Didn't you tell me to learn java or something and you'd pay me 60k a year straight out of my course?

Might start a bidding war

[Tom_1569]

It's a pity you aren't in Melbourne - we regularly take students in for work experience programs. We have about 200 R&D engineers so there are some good possibilities.

good luck.

Where abouts in melbourne?
Would you take a Cert IV student, i want to get some experience, more so see what a network engineer has to deal with, i imagine its very different to the uni's decription, and i want to make sure im heading in the right direction?

[VN_Luke]

Correspondance, organisation, language barriers and general lack of "quality" education mean that the job takes more time, gives management more headaches and is asking for trouble.

I definately agree with that.

The projects that I've worked with that were originally outsourced (a few years ago) were small projects (< 12 months?) by small companies where I imagine cost would have played a large factor in the decision - and lack of knowledgable IT staff meant there was not much consideration for maintainability/scalability of the system at the time.

- This having been said, they did eventually have a product (regardless of how poor the quality) to allow them expand the business... as such I guess this could be deemed 'successful'. (despite eventual crazy maintenance costs and an almost logarithmic dev time:feature curve until some serious redesign!)

In either case - there definately does seem to be a lack of skilled professionals at the moment (in software dev/design anyway)! - great time to change/find jobs!

[CSP]

the ones that 'have it' are the ones that say "I'm not entierly sure what this strange technology is, but you give me a pc and internet connection and I'll work it out over the next half hour" in the interview!

In an interview I was once asked a question to which I had absolutely no idea what the answer was. After a couple of seconds I said, "let me Google it and I'll get back to you". I got the job.

I remember in my Help Desk days, even when I was Team Leader or Manager training new staff, if someone rang with a Word problem for example, and I didn't know the answer, I'd use the Help function in Word while I was on the phone to them... Same thing they could have done themselves!

IT is something you don't study for and end up qualified to do. It's always changing - every day! If you don't have the ability to learn quickly, adapt to change and develop new skills, IT is NOT for you.

There is no course in the world that could give me the skills I need to do my job. Biometrics is proprietary technology and to learn it you need to work for one of the few companies that specialises in it.

[AttaBoy]

Do you always end up in help desk role after studying I.T?? Can't go straight to networking??

Is the help desk role always a start?

[50LTRv8]

Do you always end up in help desk role after studying I.T?? Can't go straight to networking??

Is the help desk role always a start?

Unless you know someone or are very lucky, ya gotta start from the bottom.

50LTRv8