another government bribe!!!
gee did anyone see the 10 news about the government giving toyota a 35 billion grant to help invent a enviro car!!
yeh right- wheels reported that a enviro car costs approx $8000 more than a petrol vehicle and would and could take upto 8 years to recover the saving in fuel -yet within those years every 5 years u have to spend about $10000 on a battery- as wheels state- how many ozzies are gunna fall for that large overpriced and ineffective vehicle!
why didnt they give that 35 billion to a australian built company like holden- no offence to any ford fans!
after all holden is australian, why give such a large amount to a japanese company - well heres my thought-
its a bl##dy bribe- if anyone was reading the paper lately australia was thinking of taking japan to court regarding the whaleing in oz waters -well it could be seen as a under the table bribe to quiet such acts or just another government ploy to buy into japanese favouritism as australia and japan has some polictical issues at present,
and see it this way- what government is gunna do themselves out of the old tax $$ on fuel if they do invent a enviro car- comanys like bp, shell etc would go bust and rest assured without them the government would loose lots of big bucks and even some stranglehold over the aussie battler!
yeh australian government think were all dumb-
yeh the government think by bringing in a fuel watch it will help- yeh just another ploy to confuse us into thinking there trying to help us!
hey dont get me wrong!- maybe the government are concerned with us but i cant see it- as the african diamond trade does by holding back millions of $$$ of diamonds to increase there value so do our australian government so fuel prices rise and more tax in there pocket-
government conspiracy !!
now we have a big rebate if we go to lpg ! yeh yeh - sounds good dosnt it- whos paying for all this anyway- notice how food, fuel living expenses etc has rose which means more tax dollars which means we are really paying for it anyway !
greed lyes and deception -thats one thing we can always be 100% sure our government does to us,
well thats my thought hope no one gets affended
Holden do get grants for the government (its all apart of the button plan). The requirement is that it must be money that will be invested back into the economy...hence why Holden lost the grant for the Alloytec.
As for aussie company they're as aussie as the rest of the car manufactures in Oz. Remember Toyota source more parts from oz then Holden does.
As for people falling for the car, they'll buy it. Alot of people think that the Korean built Holdens are made here.
Banned
With you most of the way here!. At best hybrid(petrol/electric) cars are only going to reduce CO2 emissions, probably still not to the sustainable levels we are after. Though its better than giving them more money to try and get another 50kW out of a 6L V8!Originally Posted by entcrt
If there were some real incentives/grants provided for cars that used renewable energy that would be great, or indeed large scale technology to start producing electricity from renewable energy so we could drive fully electric cars or hydrogen that is produced from renewable energy.
Yes, the LPG rebate, what a scam that is too!
They could even be insisting that a certain number of cars should be built to lpg only specs and the government would purchase a minimum number of them etc.........but no........little imagination.
Government and opposition arguing about the effectiveness of fuel watch or a 5c reduction in excise, I think ive mentioned b4..............the water is lapping over the bow...... just rearranging the deck chairs is going to do diddly squat in the long term!
We are probably going to have a transport blockade like in europe where brain dead truckers are complaining about the price of fuel, and the government might be forced to react here? What is the problem, if the fuel costs more, put up prices for haulage.......simple enough. No one will pay?, maybe some things will go by rail instead....shudder, unless we all want to go hungry we will have no choice but to pay.
Haulage is an essential service and should be subsidised? and who is doing the subsidising........the government, no silly.....us! Best we all pay the real cost of things rather than having some iffy subsidy for the transport industry........is hauling a truckload of plasmas from melbourne to sydney really an essential service?
Companies/individuals that have already committed themselves to a long term contract for haulage at a fixed price, one cant cater for stupidity, best these people do go bankrupt and get out of the business.
They dont really need to be giving any grants either, just keep making petrol more expensive and people will start to consider other propulsion forms as more attractive and market forces(a couple of 1000 new commodores parked at the factory) will see the companies provide us with what we really need.
Ozzy car companies? who would they be?
Have a look at:The Holden car in Australia - Australia's Culture Portal
I dont think there is any Australian link/ownership of GMH today other than by name and GMH just serves as a name to represent the australian link of GM.
Last edited by commsirac; 11-06-2008 at 08:00 AM.
Infidel Bear
Mini Putt 2 Champion!
i was reading an article the other day that showed exactly why we do not have a true aussie car company. If we created say a VE SS or VE SV6 we would be paying in excess of 130k for the manufacturer to start making a profit. A HSV or FPV would sell in excess of 170k. It's no wonder car companies do not wish to keep full operations in Australia without government grants.
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Moderator Puppeh
not 35 billion... it was 35 MILLION. i think you need to listen a little harder next time
Thats Dr to you.....
Either way, it was just a political stunt.
Toyota already made the decision before the Government made this announcement
Toyota Camry on cards without subsidies
Donating Member
Thanks MasterOfReality, I hadn't heard of this before! While yes it was a polical stunt, hopefully any money Toyota get from the goverenment get passed on as savings to the consumer and it drives down the price of both the Camry and Commodore Hybrids.Either way, it was just a political stunt.
Toyota already made the decision before the Government made this announcement
Toyota Camry on cards without subsidies
Your freedom ends where mine begins
^^^ I got 20bux riding on that the government will not replace their v8 statesman and fairmonts or whatever that drive the pollies around with these enviro cars...
But... I guess its a political stunt with benefits long term...
hmm good point. . . . . the thing that confuses me the most about the gov is why do they spend so much on water solutions but wont put rain tanks in every house? who knows, i think they are counting on the fact that as a people we travell with the masses and hope we will buy these cars because the Jones's next door have one!
I dont drink these days. I am allergic to alcohol and drugs. I breakout in handcuffs!
The less people know about how sausages and laws are made, the better they'll sleep at night.
Donating Member
Me either. Where I live there is a water tank in almost every back yard. We get our water piped some 800km from the Murray so we appreciate a good rain storm.
Our local council just implemented a water recycling plant to treat sewerage and use it on local parks and gardens and the golf course. Consequently we have one of the greenest courses in SA because it is totally exempt from water restrictions using recycled water.
Some organisations, councils and governments use their heads to get around a problem, and obviously some don't.
Projecting
You guys look into things WAY too much.
A bribe? They'd give the company toyota 35 million to stop whaling in the pacific. I'm fairly sure if the Australian government wanted to discretely give Japan 35 million dollars tomorrow you wouldn't hear about it.
Maybe we should just start taxing dog and cat meat.
whos giving holden money to get more power out of the v8? pretty sure its an american engine.
1995 Manual HSV Clubsport
Wade Cam :: 9.2:1 CR :: Pacemaker headers :: Twin 2.5" Exhaust :: VT Brakes
1991 Supercharged VN Berlina
9 PSI SC14 Intercooled :: Genie headers :: Twin cats :: HM Twin 2.25 exhaust :: 3.45:1 LSD
they are all sixes actually
Moderator Puppeh
you drive a hybrid.. good for you!!!
Donating Member
The same debate was on tv last week and some pollies admitted to driving V8 statesmans due to lots of highway kms.
It's better than doing nothing. The problem as I see it is that the govt. in giving a grant for a specific technology is not allowing the market to address the real problem in the most effective way which is that we need to move away from fossil based transport fuels, particularly oil. There will be a number of ways in which to do that.
If you buy one of those Camrys, and I presume that a similar offer will be available to other local manufacturers, you will still be using fuel at a rate of about 6-7l/100kms. If you buy a Yaris with a similar fuel consumption, you get nothing. If you choose not to own a car or use one less, you get nothing.
Granted, there will be a trickle down effect and if people insist on buying large, heavy vehicles it is most effective to increase the efficiencies of those first.
Transferring some of the total tax gathered from (say) income to fuel might be a better option but it should have been done a decade ago and would be politically very difficult now. Encouraging the use of alternatives such as LPG and biofuels has been a good strategy for hedging against oil price increases but does little to address greenhouse gas emissions.
Banned
who said anyone was?
and are you sure not one cent of development, testing, emissions etc is done on these engines to suit to cars made here?
Banned
Exactly! why I love the scheme that gives $2000 to people that want to drive lpg powered trucks around......not!
Banned
lol billion hahah
That dent guy
The only real problem I see with this is that now all the other car companies will be lining up wanting their handout to do their bit. What makes toyota so special that they get it all?
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yeh billion --- million whats the diff- there still getting a lot of dollars for something that dont want to do or cant,
we could do with that to refine our own oil that we have in oz waters and keep that oil here and stuff the overseas market- we could proudly sponser australian owned and australian refined petrol ,
this way at least we could mark are own prices and cut out the hundreds of middle men taking there little bit which makes are prices go up!
sooner or later our troops in iraq are gunna have to carry siphon hoses to run our military vehicles,
all i am tryin to say is the government have there spending in the wrong areas, lets give a couple of million to the aid of overseas disasters and bugger the poor oz bloke and his family that cant afford rent, living expenses and have to spend the nite in the streets, how cares if our health system suffers as we have to spend millions to help the drug addicts that need syringes ,we seem to spend helping overseas lifestyles and let our own suffer!
just some things seem imoral when we seem to ignore our own welfare to help others overseas , i m not racist or ignorant , but i do believe australia has problems we need to fix first!
Customize your life.
No bribe just Toyota muscle doing what they always do. And that's take over and get in first.
No doubt Holden and Ford would invest a great deal more if they built Hybrids here, Development and all that goes with it to make it for Australians roads would be a much larger investment then Toyota..
Toyota just bring us the same old car assembled here with little if any investment in development for our conditions other then RHD which I'm sure is already in use somewhere across the world.
The government offered a carrot for hybrids to be built here, And Toyota had to bite it off as they just can't help but get in first to dominate the competition.
I was told there was a rumour of Toyota leaving a few months back.
They don't need the money they don't need the media boosting them.. There a super power that will end all production in this country one day.
Trucks over 20 tonne get a rebate (originally 17.5 c/l but now its gone up) as long as their trucks meet certain criteria in terms of the environment. Mind you Diesel should be 17.5c/l litre lower but the government keep an extra tax on the fuel as the greenies complained that more people would have converted to diesel.
But I love your concept of people paying more, I mean there aren't a stuff load of people that are living on paycheck on paycheck. Also if people start paying more for stuff that means our spending increases and that adds to our inflation problem.
Another one is that the big transport companies get alot of the work and then bring in small operators and pay them peanuts. Then when even a cheap tyre costs about $300 a tyre and a 45tonne truck has 22 tyres just costs on that drive these operators prices up. That and the their rego costs $9000 a year.
Banned
Im puzzled at your logic of how somehow life will be cheaper if we subsidise fuel for truckies? Where do you think the subsidy will be coming from and ultimately who will be paying for it?
The price of goods and services goes up with fuel increases sure, but as I have elaborate on b4:Petrol price ripp-off, the extent of that isnt as great as is being made out.
Subsidising isnt the answer, changing the way we do things is.
Banned
Did anyone watch the 7.30 report last night......channel 2......spose not.
Anyway, it lead with a story on how CSIRO along with GMH had developed a hybrid comm which was used as the publicity vehicle at the sydney olympics.
GM gave it the richard, because they didnt think australia was ready for it.
The lame duck that they had speaking for GM, said at the time no-one could forsee the climate and rise in oil price scenario.........who was he kidding?
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