Building a new house in the bush - advice needed

[paddyj]

I want to investigate the possibility of buying a block of land and contracting a builder to build a new home somewhere in the blue mountains. I'm looking for some advice from people who have done this sort of thing before especially in relation to picking a block of land.

How do sloping blocks affect the cost of building?

Is it worth paying a considerable amount more to get a level block?

How does the quality of the land affect the type of house that can be built?

Is it going to be more hassle/cost than it is worth to build in these conditions?


Paddy

[CSP]

My one peice of advice when building on a slope, don't put your foundations down on top of a cut & fill job... Cut a wedge out of the slope, but always build supports into the existing ground rather than use fill to bring it up level..

[hsvpunk]

ive watched a few episodes of 'Grand Designs" on abc.. and sloping blocks etc. cost abit to level.

Is there any other houses in the regon? if so, maybe go and ask them about the land itself, im sure they should have some sort of idea.

[88GreenVN]

For a transportable home - a flat block is the only way to go.

The more a block slopes the harder it gets to build a spec (cheapish) home on it.

Choosing a site is really about what you are going to do with it. If its a holiday/get away type home it wont matter - if its for investment then it will need to be close to schools & shops to attract renters. If its for you to live in then it just needs to fit the overall budget.

I cost trasportable homes (SA) for a living and get Realestate.com emails each day of land listings for SA. Comes in handy when people come in looking at the houses and I can talk about whats for sale in the area they are looking to build. So get onto the web and get a search email for the area your looking to build it. Aslo contact the agents in the area for any quiet listings they may have.

[paddyj]

Excuse my ignorance but what is a transportable home? This would be for us to live in so the main concern would be fitting in with a budget.

[88GreenVN]

Excuse my ignorance but what is a transportable home? This would be for us to live in so the main concern would be fitting in with a budget.

We build the homes in our factory (big yard LOL) and move them on the back of a truck. 6.9 wide by upto 20.3 meters long. or split in two halfs about 4 m wide each and bolt em together on site.

Maybe you dont have them in NSW. We sell heaps of them in SA - when the GST came in we were selling upto 25 a month which kept every one flat out for ages.

[Reaper]

I want to investigate the possibility of buying a block of land and contracting a builder to build a new home somewhere in the blue mountains. I'm looking for some advice from people who have done this sort of thing before especially in relation to picking a block of land.

How do sloping blocks affect the cost of building?

As a rule of thumb - the steeper the slope, the more it is going to cost you

Is it worth paying a considerable amount more to get a level block?

As above - aim for the flattest area you can where you are going to build)


Reaper

[bradcad]

Being a residential designer, I feel this might be right up my alley.


All blocks, sloping, flat, large, small, have good and bad points.

How do sloping blocks affect the cost of building?

Sloping blocks affect the cost of building in several ways, depending on the style of home you are building, how sloping, what the ground condition is, etc,. For example, a severe slope calls for a pole home. This means little ground work has to be done, apart from scraping, possibly levelling at a point (say if you are to walk from front/ rear door directly to the ground) and all the footings for the poles.

For a 'slight' sloping block (it is all relative), say 2 metre crossfall, if you decided to go for slab on ground you will be up for say $60k+ worth of ground work, before retaining walls, and before beginning building the house.

Typically sloping blocks call for homes built off the ground, with timber subfloors, due to the reduction in groundwork required.

Also consider, how do you want the yard to work once the house is built? If you cut & fill the building pad, you will have banking areas reducing the useable yard. Not a problem if you are on several acres, but say half an acre this can be painful. You may consider retaining or even terracing the yard, at great additional expence.


Is it worth paying a considerable amount more to get a level block?

MMM depending on your circumstances, how much more level, and ultimately what you want out of it. It may cost you more to build a pole home several metres off the ground, but an equivalent flat block may cost even more. Really depends on prices in the area you are considering.

I like sloping blocks, because it gives so much scope for what you can do. I have seen houses on sloping blocks that have had rooms and decks built off them over years, that almost look like an adults playground when done- a bridge to the pool deck, which steps up to the billiard deck, which leads to the theatre deck......



How does the quality of the land affect the type of house that can be built?

Ground quality can affect the type of house that can be built, but in most cases there are solutions to most situations. For example, heavlily clayed areas (brisbane are more consistantly seeing 'E' sites- ie. extremely reactive) means additional rio and concrete in a slab on ground, and possibly even a different type of slab. Granite under the surface may push the cost of building up considerably, as it has to be broken to create footings. Again, a slab re-design or even going to a pole home may help this.

Is it going to be more hassle/cost than it is worth to build in these conditions?

Ultimately depends on prices in your area, and what you want. The best thing to do is put an offer on a block subject to all your usual conditions, and soil test/ site inspection (organised by yourself). This will allow you to approach a builder, engineer or designer who can advise of likely problems on site. That way you get a reasonably accurate, ballpark figure which you can start working with. Then you know, if the builder says it will cost an extra $50k to break granite a hundred ml under the surface, that flat block you looked at yesterday for an extra $40k may be worth the extra expence.


"My one peice of advice when building on a slope, don't put your foundations down on top of a cut & fill job... Cut a wedge out of the slope, but always build supports into the existing ground rather than use fill to bring it up level.."

This comment is not exactly true. Would be nice if you could always just cut and not fill, but it is simply not practical, or cost effective. Building on fill is ok, providing the engineer has designed accurately for it. The fill must be machine compacted in 200mm layers. Then piering must be drilled down to natural ground. This, inturn with a stiff slab, will ensure minimal or no movement.

What I will say is, if you can afford it, and by all means it is not imperative, but if you can afford to, have your footings designed one grade higher than required. That was always my plan, if I ever built.

Any more questions, or email site details/ soil test/ contours etc, and I will try to help out more, if I can.

Cheers

[bradcad]

Oh yeah if you are building in the bush, keep in mind you will be up for bushfire protection on the house. This will add a few grand ontop of the price.

[Holdfast]

If you build in the Blue Mountains you may be building on solid sandstone or if up towards Mount Tomah, volcanic soils that may contain basalt.

Any excavation of rock is going to be expensive.

If you encounter basalt then you may be up for big bucks.

Building on slopes is expensive.

I'd pay an extra 80 or 90 thousand to get a block that had good access.

[paddyj]

Thanks for all the great advice especially your highly detailed answer Brad! I'm going to check out a few places this weekend so I will try and collect as much detail as I can.

Even If i had a perfectly level block, I assume there would be quite a bit of cost involved with clearing the bush away and also the council to deal with?

[minux]

Just my 2 cents and this is from experience, make sure you get your own individual soil testing done BEFORE you pay for the block.

[paddyj]

Thanks will do.

What's the process after I find a few blocks I'm interested in. What sort of inspections should be done? Should I be looking for builders/architects at this stage?

Obviously I know nothing about this :-)

[bradcad]

Soil test is the main one. As mentioned, ensure it is one YOU or your engineer/ designer has organised.

Architects are expensive, but by all means visit one, and a building designer, or a builder who you may be likely to go with, as they may have their own design team. Get a good repore with whoever you are going through, and they will spend the time with you exploring options on different blocks. If they dont want to spend the time, they are not the right people to use.

In QLD, I dont know about your area, soil tests cost around $330-$440, sometimes more if the tester knows the area and considers it necessary to drill more holes.

[88GreenVN]

A soil test in SA is between the 350 to 500 mark. Some councils will request a conture plan of the site too. Your local council (area your going to build) will be a great help too - just visit the planning dept. and tell em what your planning and they can assist with things spacific to your area. Set backs for bush or suburb blocks, how close to boundries............

[paddyj]

Ok this is the sort of slope that we are looking at. Would this be considered steep???

[Low_VX_Taxi]

Thanks for all the great advice especially your highly detailed answer Brad! I'm going to check out a few places this weekend so I will try and collect as much detail as I can.

Even If i had a perfectly level block, I assume there would be quite a bit of cost involved with clearing the bush away and also the council to deal with?

Well all I will do is warn you about Blue Mountains Council.... they are painfull for land development proposals (especially residential), if the trees are alive and above a certain height you must get council aproval. Took mum 6 years from putting forward the proposal (with a large house building company) till when she could move in.... they even made her pay for a bungled easement encasement (they subcontracted and they stuffed up the encasement....) before she could build and the expense went from 94 000 to 164 000.... thats not including the purchase of the land (subdivision of existing owned block). Also expect if your in a bush surrounding place to have a sprinkler system, custom glass (fire proof or sum bull****) and other annoying measures maybe even if its a non town water sight a pump for bush fire usage of your water.....

Just out of interest what area are you looking at? Katoomba Wentworth Falls etc?

EDIT:Council even tried to say that a 5 year old plum tree should be heritage listed due to its being at least 50 years old...

[88GreenVN]

Ok this is the sort of slope that we are looking at. Would this be considered steep???

I'd say it's getting close to being called steep - yes.

[paddyj]

Well all I will do is warn you about Blue Mountains Council.... they are painfull for land development proposals (especially residential), if the trees are alive and above a certain height you must get council aproval. Took mum 6 years from putting forward the proposal (with a large house building company) till when she could move in.... they even made her pay for a bungled easement encasement (they subcontracted and they stuffed up the encasement....) before she could build and the expense went from 94 000 to 164 000.... thats not including the purchase of the land (subdivision of existing owned block). Also expect if your in a bush surrounding place to have a sprinkler system, custom glass (fire proof or sum bull****) and other annoying measures maybe even if its a non town water sight a pump for bush fire usage of your water.....

Just out of interest what area are you looking at? Katoomba Wentworth Falls etc?

EDIT:Council even tried to say that a 5 year old plum tree should be heritage listed due to its being at least 50 years old...

Sounds like a nightmare! We are looking for as close to the city as possible so maybe down near Springwood, Faulconbridge area.

What building company did she use?

[xlr8_87]

another question to think about is truck access if you're building in the bush. if you've got a dirt road going to the property, don't even think about trying to get a truck close if its wet!

[Troy711]

Just my 2 cents and this is from experience, make sure you get your own individual soil testing done BEFORE you pay for the block.

very good advice. ive spoken to many owners who have had massive bills from builders for excavation because they claim to have hit rock while digging foundations despite the fact that there was none.

[Troy711]

ohhh... and do you need a plasterer? lol. me and f1tzy will do it for ya (if he is willing to come down from QLD)

[Holdfast]

Have a look at the office of fair trading to see what are your obligations and that of the contractor.

When you select a contractor, ask to see his licence and licence number.
If he won't show you then there's something wrong.
Make sure he is licenced for the work you need to be done when building your new home.

Don't ask the council for good builders use the office of fair trading or speak to local people around the area who have built a home within the last 10 years.

Most faults occurr within 10 years.

If you are building in brick use a brick that has a high fire rating as some bricks are quite permeable to moisture or heat.

Once upon a time clinker bricks or bricks that were over cooked were tossed away; now they fetch a premium.

When building the most important thing is to have stable footings so that the foundation is fully supported.

Always put additional funds and supervision into ensuring that the footings are well constructed and go for over-kill.

Be on site when the footings are constructed regardless of what regulations say and always be there for the pooring of concrete as many so called contractors take short cuts.

If the site has been well surveyed, the soil analysis and profiling is good and there is no history of landslip then that's a good start.

If you need some other advise let me know as I've had a lot to do with contractors.

Here's a link to the office of fair trading:
Home building licence check - NSW Office of Fair Trading

[Low_VX_Taxi]

Sounds like a nightmare! We are looking for as close to the city as possible so maybe down near Springwood, Faulconbridge area.

What building company did she use?

First off she went with Beachwood....USELESS and flat out morons, have no clue and wasted mums money. I beleive they are bankrupt now.

Second was Hotondo (sp?) even worse! Expensive and not very good at what they do! Plus they can take up to 3-4 years just to build it with huge blowouts in cost (neither of which they will inform you of at the start!).

Mum ended up using Masterton. They were not the cheapest (but cheaper than hotondo) but they were definately the best. Were in fairly constant contact and proactive with preventitive strategies to prevent cost blowouts. So far the whole house is pretty sound and no movement cracks and everythings still 100% (mum's been there for bout a year and a half now), there was of course problems as its a big thing putting together a house.

Just gotta watch out for B.M Council.... They were that pedantique they wouldn't give her the occupation cert. until she constructed a handrail on her entry platform to the back door (when the original proposed plans didn't feature one!!!).

Just remember to factor in delays with weather (even if its summer!) and council being pedantique wankers and you will be fine

EDIT: some good points above holdfast! also if you go a small time builder watch how many pallets of bricks the bricklayer buys! they have a tendancy of buying a few extra pallets at your expense if they are being paid per brick!

[xlr8_87]

adding to the above, bad builders companies don't usually last too long, so try and find a builder with a fair few years of the same business behind them