Take it out/Take it Back
Learner Drivers
Her past should NOT excuse her from this. She drove neglectfully, she took a human life. She should be charged the same as anybody else, and DEFINATELY have her license taken from her. So also should the person who let her get behind the wheel.
Why must we make concessions for people who will quite happily act like everybody else until they do something wrong, and then hide behind an ailment. Disgusting.
What are other peoples thoughts on this??I'm a murderer: learner driver's scream at pedestrian carnage
Harriet Alexander
December 1, 2008
A learner driver, who surveyed the carnage after she mounted a footpath and accelerated into a group of pedestrians, screamed: "I'm a murderer, I'm a murderer."
A 20-year-old woman, Emma Hansen, was killed in the accident in Kogarah last year, and 11 others were injured.
But the Glebe Coroner's Court heard today that the driver, Rose Deng, is still permitted to hold a driver's licence because charges of negligent driving causing death were dismissed under the Mental Health Act this year.
Ms Deng, a Sudanese widow, had been visiting her son in hospital when a family friend offered to take her for a driving lesson for some relief. She was on her learner's licence.
The two drove to Port Botany but on their return Ms Deng's friend became concerned that she was not taking a corner sharply enough, so he placed his hand on the steering wheel to correct her driving, the court heard.
Ms Deng panicked, mounted the kerb and pressed the accelerator instead of the brake, the court was told.
Ms Hansen had just bought some sushi when the red Toyota Echo crashed into her, dragging her beneath the car into three bus stop poles.
The court heard that when the car finally came to a stop, Ms Deng began pulling her hair and smashing her head on the gutter.
"[She was] ripping all her hair out and screaming 'I'm a murderer, I'd rather die', just over and over again," Constable Kate Mansell, the first police officer to arrive, said.
Constable Mansell said Ms Deng also said, "I'm a murderer, I'm a murderer" and smashed her head on the gutter.
She said Ms Deng looked like she was having a fit.
Footage of the bus stop crash drew gasps of shock in the Coroner's Court on the first day of the inquest into Ms Hansen's death.
CCTV footage taken from the nearby ANZ Bank shows two women pushing strollers along the footpath, seconds before they were run down.
Several people were shown lying in the street amid debris.
Detective Sergeant John Kelly, the officer in charge of the crash investigation, told the court shoes, mobile phones, thongs, sushi rolls, a white blanket and a tipped-over pram were left strewn in the street.
Clumps of bloodied hair were found stuck to the car's shattered windscreen, he said.
Ms Hansen's friend, Portia Parkhill, was waiting to draw money from an automatic teller machine and looking into the eyes of her friend walking towards her with a sushi roll, when she saw a red car come up behind her.
"I remember looking up the street towards the newsagency, towards the intersection," Ms Parkhill told the court today of the day her friend was killed.
"And I saw the car, the red car, on the footpath, and I saw it behind Emma. I couldn't be sure if it was half on the footpath or totally on the footpath but I saw it [had] left the road.
"The next thing I knew I was sitting on the ground."
The closed circuit television footage showed Ms Parkhill suddenly thrown to the ground.
She told the court that she got up and heard men shouting and pointing to another one of her friends, Caroline Kim, who was lying on the ground. She rolled over Ms Kim, who appeared to revive. And then Ms Parkhill noticed one of Ms Hansen's cowboy boots on the ground.
"I knew she really liked that shoe and I thought, 'Why is her shoe there?' "
It was not until she had been to the hospital and was on her way home in the car that she received a call informing her that Ms Hansen was dead.
The inquest will also consider the competency of learner driver instructors and whether provisions should be introduced to disqualify drivers who have avoided charges under the Mental Health Act.
Ms Hansen's mother, Lynne Hansen, was at the inquest today, wearing a necklace with a diamond-encrusted "E" for "Emma" around her neck.
Outside the court, she said that she wore the necklace with her daughter's initial every day.
"She was gorgeous," she said of her daughter, pulling a photograph of the smiling fashion student from her wallet.
"She was model material. She went to Russia to help the kids, funded it all herself. She was a gorgeous girl."
Ms Deng's lawyer has previously told the court his client had endured torture in her Sudanese homeland before arriving in Australia in 1994 and that the crash had exacerbated an unspecified long-term "mental condition".
A mental health report has quoted Ms Deng as saying that if it were not for her children she would have killed herself after the accident.
Ms Deng is undergoing psychiatric treatment and did not appear in court today.
The hearing continues.
with AAP
Originally Posted by ari666
Pretty crap that she wasn't charged, how come it always seems to be sudanese or immigrants that stack on their learners. Im on my learners and i've never been involved in an accident i dont know how you would hit the accelerator instead of the brake anyway.
Now w/Phreddied Dash
It's a tragedy. Neither the driver nor the instructor should have been on the road but unfortunately you can't make it compulsory to attend L driver training such as L Trent because with the new 120 hours law, it would cost about $7800 (based on $65/hour lesson).
It's disgusting that she can ever drive again.
Agreed. You should not be on the road if you can't distinguish between the pedals.
A Commodore is a passion. Anything else is just a car
Donating Member
SkyFall
says a lot for laws, i might go kill 10 people and just say i witnessed a bug get brutally killed when i was young and it scarred me for life.
The Black Beauty
Donating Member
simple mistake when yo **** yourself and you don't know what to do, and yo don't calm down and think... as stated "Ms Deng panicked"
But as for my opinion, she shouldn't be on the road....she SHOULD be trialed as a normal driver, learner or no learner, what was she doing "trying to drive" in a build up area, if she COULDN'T "drive", my very first driving lesson was in a factory area for 1h, about 10 cars passed us in that 1h...was a few lessons before I got to drive around other cars
EDIT: @TVR - and then say a bug hit your window before the crash and you broke down thinking of all those haunting memmories
-Merry Whatever-
Diagnostician
WOW $65 for a Driving lesson. That's expensive. My Mum is a Driving Teacher, but didn't start teaching until after i got my P's... good timing aye! She had just come back from an Driver Teacher conference down in Sydney and she said, that there has been talk about a new law for all people to be able to do the full 110.
Coming home from Sydney on Sunday, i could see why the rule should be introduced, as when i had over taken a car (Yes was doing 110 on the F3 with my red p plates on big whoop) i merged back into the left hand lane and almost took out an L plater.
Swerves for gay koalas
Mind Me Bloody Beer Champion!
The CCTV footage is pretty shocking:
Video - CCTV video of Kogarah crash - Sydney Morning Herald
In a way a feel sorry for the driver, she's come from a ****ed up situation in Sudan and now this has happened. She probably feel cursed. She's reported to have gotten out of the car screaming, ripped her hair out and smashed her head on the sidewalk till the police arrived.
On the other hand, she killed someone, and kept her license, which just boggles the mind that this would be allowed to happen. Her lawyer argued she had an "unspecified mental condition", which apparently saved her license (though I doubt she'll be in a hurry to use it, or anyone in a hurry to supervise). Why should you get to keep driving because you're deemed to be mental? Isn't that just MORE of a reason you SHOULDN'T drive?! I don't get it...
A comparison between bugs and the beating's, murder and rape this woman would have most likely witnessed in her past is quite poor form imo.
LS-EXUAL
I hate to bring a racial element into this, but, i'd like to see what would have happened if the lady driving were white. Sorry to say it, but the way i see it, is they are only letting her keep her license because she is Sudanese and obviously not of white descent. There has been alot of controversy surrounding the Sudanese / African community in the last year, i kind of see this as a way of keeping tensions down between the white people of Australia and the Sudanese / African community of Australia.
Almost like a peace offering, otherwise "they" would be at risk of being labelled "racist" towards her because they feel victimised in Australia.
Yeah i agree i was drivng around the other day and i saw a sudanese L plater with the L plate upside down now if they cant even get that right how are they going to be able to drive.
Banned
Im guessing the vehicle involved was an automatic. In general(what has happened in this accident Im not to sure of)Brake/accelerator mistakes are all so prevalent, youll never stop people making mistakes.........its a design problem!
My solution....brake pedal should be only reachable by the left foot on autos.
Sadly i agree, most Sudanese seem to come over here, do enough to get their licenses then totally disregard all the laws on the road.
A.R.N.G.
It is an open argument that whenever an Eastern African behaves in an unsocial way including behaving like a gangsta or some other violent action or drving behaviour that they had full knowledge of that their past and all that they witnessed is the cause.
So it says "don't take responsibility-->blame someone else"
Subsiste Sermonem Statim
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Mind Me Bloody Beer Champion!
I'd be more inclined to think it's the fact that Sudan is a violent, dysfunctional, war-torn country - and the fact that most of it's refugees are black is incidental. It's not like white people have never gotten of charges on a mental health excuse is it now?
Most Sudanese? You're gonna back that up with some numbers right? You only hear about the bad ones, just like you only read in the papers about the bad P-platers. It doesn't reflect the majority. In fact, this woman didn't disregard the law, in fact she was driving very carefully prior to the accident, then everything went pear shaped, and she panicked.
Infidel Bear
Mini Putt 2 Champion!
Sorry but when myself or anyone else panics on the road the last thing we have been known to do is to mount a kurb and jam on the accelerator for long enough to go from 10 km/h to 60km/h . I suppose the driver instructor panicked also and forgot he had his controls he could use?
They have used a past to allow this insane road idiot to keep a licence and to continue driving. Would the victims family be charged with murder if one shot her after what they witnessed? You know psychological issues and all.
Ship the bitch back to sudan where she can mount the curbs all she wants. Am I an arsehole? Yes, I am sick to death of these minorities claiming mental issues because of the country they come from. In fact I am sick to death of every person claiming it. They slaughtered an innocent person in a horrifying act. They deserve to be in jail.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
- Theodor Seuss Geisel
Infidel Bear
Mini Putt 2 Champion!
Well said mate.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
- Theodor Seuss Geisel
LS-EXUAL
Well said man, i wasn't going to reply to anyone against my post, due to the fact all of us know how these arguements go..... Around and around in circles, turning into namecalling and insult throwing, then the thread gets locked.
But well said Craig
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Mind Me Bloody Beer Champion!
From what I've heard, she was taking a corner too sharply, the instructor tried to correct it by turning the wheel, at which point the driver froze up and was holding the wheel "in a vice like grip" (quoting the judge) in the same position (preventing the instructor from correcting it) and at the same time she fully depressed the accelerator. This isn't inconcievable is it?
Sure most of us probably wouldn't do that, but I've been rear-ended by a guy who did exactly that - I was stopped at a red light, guy came out a corner and was pulling up behind me and pressed the accelerator instead of the brake, and bang! It does happen.
As for the instructor, he's a garbage truck driver and friend of the driver, not a professional instructor so the car wouldn't have had dual controls. His options included the gear selector and handbrake. If he had put it in neutral and applied the brake maybe it could have been averted, but honestly in the short few seconds he would have had to make and enact that decision (remember he's probably panicking too) you can't say definately that you'd fare much better in his shoes.
Read my earlier post, I agree, I don't think she should be driving. My point is 1) it's a tragic accident, clearly the woman does have problems and they quite likely contributed to the events which unfolded; and 2) you can't just pick isolated media reports of a particular demographic and claim that represents the whole/majority of that demographic unless you have evidence to back it up. That's just common sense.They have used a past to allow this insane road idiot to keep a licence and to continue driving. Would the victims family be charged with murder if one shot her after what they witnessed? You know psychological issues and all.
Ship the bitch back to sudan where she can mount the curbs all she wants. Am I an arsehole? Yes, I am sick to death of these minorities claiming mental issues because of the country they come from. In fact I am sick to death of every person claiming it. They slaughtered an innocent person in a horrifying act. They deserve to be in jail.
That's all I'm saying. She shouldn't be on the road, I never said she should be, and no I don't think you should avoid all the penalties because you have a mental condition either. Please don't take my words out of context.
Infidel Bear
Mini Putt 2 Champion!
So perhaps it is time that people that instruct learns must do a safety course for these very situations?
They had this accident on Crash Investigators, was interesting to say the least. Regardless, I am still unsure as to how people confuse the pedals, I have been teaching my younger cousins to drive at the farm, not once they have mistaken the pedals and they are NINE YEARS OLD. If people have accidents due to this happening they should not be allowed to drive. If they cannot use dexterity in one foot for 2 pedals they cannot safely occupy the road.
This is where driving courses come into their own. In the one major car accident I had on my own(after a rear tyre blew in the rain) I was able to downshift anchor on the handbrake slow a spin and reduce impact speed from 100 -70. Clearly ANYONE should not be allowed to teach people to drive and this point goes back to what I said first, train drivers to train new drivers. Maybe this would also go a long way to reducing young deaths on the road?
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
- Theodor Seuss Geisel
Swerves for gay koalas
Mind Me Bloody Beer Champion!
You're right, the standard of driver training isn't all it could be, we all see that every day on the roads.
Allan Evans is apparently pushing for this in the wake of this incident:
NRMA wants trainers taught - National - smh.com.au
I'd love to see road authorities get more proactive on driver training. So far they seem to think just by bumping up the number of log book hours will magically make better drivers, but in fact it just seems to give bad instructors more time to ingrain their bad training in their students.
I think the stats will probably say that there aren't a significant number of serious accidents involving learner drivers and that hasn't given the authorities the push they need to actually get moving. Perhaps this accident will help? Doubtless if you have better drivers coming off the factory line, they will have less accidents down the track.
As for confusing the pedals? I'm not sure she confused them, it sounds like she just froze, and as many people do when they anticipate an impact in a car they extend and lock their legs, so I suspect she press the pedal inadvertently - she wasn't aiming for either pedal consciously.
Banned
I have elaborated on this before:
15 year old driver kills 4 year old
Everyone going tut tut, people who confuse the pedals should be taken off the road are missing the problem here........its not til they have killed someone that we get to hear about it and taking them off the road is appropriate, however, its closing the gate after the horse has bolted
Let's be proactive about it, and do something to stop it happening in the first place....IMHO simple reconfiguration of the pedals would stop it happening, I maybe wrong....its a suggestion.........how do people suggest they are going to stop this sort of thing happening again?
you have a good point there. you can just take whoever does this off the road but someone else is only gonna do the same thing again and again if nothing is done. i dont have this problem and never have and dont know anyone that has either. but it seems the minority do have this problem so something has gotta be done.
Donating Member
Looking at camera angle 2. the girl in the camo shirt was a very VERY lucky young woman. she was lifted up and thrown into the door alcove. half a step backwards and picking up her bag would have been the least of her trouble...
Also, i heard something about some car designer...audi? wanting to put the brakes on the steering wheel, as in you squeeze them to slow down etc. and the argument they had was 'if your in a situation like a crash you instinctivly squeeze your hands and brace yourself'
anyone else heard anything on this?
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures...right next to the potatos
Mitch's Ex-police VY Commo
if a stripper said it , it MUST be true!!!!
.....I still think its dirty .....
Banned
Havent heard of it, but Im not sure how you would maintain braking pressure when you are turning the wheel etc.
Now that we can theoretically power assist brakes and steering to be controlled by even the finger tips, there is no reason why we couldnt reconfig the whole thing....perhaps even a steering wheel is not the best thing.
However, I do feel that there would be little chance of doing that now that we are set in our ways, the transition for older drivers(those that have already learnt to drive) would be very painful.
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