removing silicone bends - help

[impulsesv6]

following the theory of silicone bends being bad...
im running a 64mm OD pulley (12psi) and only getting 8 at the engine

how can i remove the last 2 remaining??
the one into the tb i have inserted part of a bend into the full silicone bend..
the one from the charger i have no idea apart from cutting off the majority of the outlet and either welding on a smooth bend, or installing a smooth bend and silicone straight joins... can i buy a 2.5" to 3" alumbend?

any other ideas or am i chasing my tail?
tbolt clamps will hopefully be ordered this week for the whole system


the red lines show the ends of the pipe, the inserted pipe, and tb



i also removed 2 bends that were no longer needed bcos a taller cooler had been fitted after the pipes were made.

[Raptor Charged VX]

hey mate, thats a very tight fit, you can get alluminum bends from plazaman online, although if you dont want to go about ordering some my mate has a box full of 3inch bends, considering we live in the same town i can get a bend to you and you can have a look at how i have cooled my system, but yes all your bends should be out of pipe , the only thing is the tightness of the radius of ur silicone bend to your tb is very tight, and also the piping looks to have alot of 45 bends as aposed to pipes to being all sqaure, i lost about 0.4 of one psi my dyno sheet showed 9.6 psi after cooling, all depends on how much money you have 3 inch stainless is nice pipe to work with, even better if you can tig weld ,

[Raptor Charged VX]

also the bend out of the charger will be killing it the most, if you have enough room you could use a small striaght silcone 2.5 inch to 3inch reducer out of the charger into a 90 degree mandrel bend, it all must help. also could be the height of your cooler, maybe a longer wider one might help,

you just dont know til its been done, start with the bends,

[immortality]

have you considered using 2.5" bend straight out of the charger and then use a 2.5" - 3" silicone reducer. alternatly, use the 2.5" bend and than fabricate a short lenght of pipe that progresses from 2.5" - 3" all in alloy.

for curiousity, have you tried removing the intake pipe and mounting the filter straight on the back of the charger? that way you can see if that is effecting overall performance of the charger.

can you clarify please, it looks like you have 3" piping that narrows to 2.5" before and after the cooler?

[Raptorsc]

have you considered using 2.5" bend straight out of the charger and then use a 2.5" - 3" silicone reducer. alternatly, use the 2.5" bend and than fabricate a short lenght of pipe that progresses from 2.5" - 3" all in alloy.

Immortality, that ^^^ is very good advice, .

Don't try a test with filter directly onto the charger, always use some pipe length between charger and filter, air coming direct from filter is too mixed up for good flow direct onto the impeller. Been there done that years ago


A single continous 180 degree bend from charger intake around to first straight would be useful too. As already mentioned that item directly off the charger will be a killer


Some very solid comment there from RC VX also, he has a very good system of his own making.


I don't recall the exact throttle body hose size but it appears 75mm Silicone goes on fine, that being the case we could try a Squashed Elbow from Donaldson, these are made from rubber (not fantastic) but have a very good design internally.

See the Cobra adaptors on Page 52, I have used those on my Lancer kits in the past AND I have seen them locally on some V8 Falcons which have been supercharged.

http://www.odms.net.au/files/organis...e%20DD-402.pdf

[totq]

I too have a very tight 90 bend out of the charger, so much that the bend itself is slightly...bent/flatten! I am thinking of cutting a bit off the charger outlet and the pipe it joins to, to allow a bit more room for a metal bend..... is cutting a, say an inch off, ok to do, Tim?

Brendon, your tb bend is very tight. Maybe have a custom 'adapter' made up - at that point it can be a square box for example (but you'll think up of something smoother), such that the cooler pipe can just join straight onto the box. from the bottom and the other end straight to the tb. At this point, turbulence affecting flow is no longer an issue - its at the end of the line, plus you want flow into the manifold to be turbulent anyway...

[Raptorsc]

Totq

Cutting 25mm off is acceptable

[Raptorsc]

Totq

Could you take some photos of your bend and post them up here for analysis please.

I want to see every example of this and measure the gains in all cases

[Raptor Charged VX]

also possibly bring you cold side cooler pipe straight up closer to the battery and bring it back to the TB along the top of the engine bay this way you could lessen the radius of your bends into the TB as it will be at the same height already.

[totq]

Tim photos as requested.

It appears my plumbing has only one 90 bend at the charger, the rest are just short straight joins , which implies the pipes are joined up very closely, which is good. However, it is only minor and I am not overly concerned with whatever 'loss' its contributing at the moment, but i will tinker with it when all my other commitments are out of the way for good. The intention is to have a custom pipe-bend made up, fit the smaller pulley and second BOV you're sending me, touch-up tune and that would be all it needs. What boost/power comes out after that...is what ever comes out.

Overall layout.
DSC01317 (Large).JPG


These two to show tight 90 bend, you may see a slight crushing of the bend in the more close-up shot of the two.
DSC01320 (Large).JPGDSC01318 (Large).JPG

This shot is to show you the BOV is just before the TB. I'll fit the other BOV closer to the charger when you send it.
DSC01319 (Large).JPG

[Raptorsc]

Totq

Really I would suggest your quite huge boost loss isn't showing up as a silicone bend problem, well apart from the one bend which you could change. I believe you have the 2.5" problem, not personally but rather your pipework. I have long recommended only 3" pipework.

Looks neat otherwise

[totq]

Thanks for your notes Tim, and nothing taken personally. Unfortunately, being a Calais of that model, it turns out there would have been more than one compromise to go with 3".

I can only wait and see, atm.

[Raptor Charged VX]

looks neat mate. must have been tight not moving the snail of the charger.

[Raptorsc]

This post is for ImpulsesV6

Crank pulley diameter measured across the tops of the little V's - Should be 162mm or thereabouts on the alloytec (check it to be sure) Definitely confirm this step again, it is critical.

Blower pulley should be 61mm across the little V's (certain of that)

Blower internal step up ratio is 1:3 (certain)

Max blower impeller shaft speed is 52 000rpm with 25mm BOV's

Max blower impeller shaft speed is 56 000rpm with 32mm Bov + 25mm Bov

[Raptorsc]

Some comparisons

RC VX runs compessor speed of 47 812 rpm to achieve near enough to 10psi

Mackay based VT V6 runs compessor speed of 51 850 rpm to achieve 13+ psi

Impulses V6 runs compessor speed of 52 391 rpm currently to achieve 8psi

I think there is a clear message there, time for some derestriction somewhere, seems to be plenty compressor speed there for plenty boost.

[Raptor Charged VX]

Yeah at those numbers its obvious that it has to be the cooler piping, maybe a little bit to long of an intake, Maybe, also like i said could be the shape of the cooler, it would take alot to push the air up so high.

[Raptorsc]

RX VX

We tested 4 different coolers to be sure, all the same regardless of shape and size, pretty sure its in the pipe/silicone and have a play with intake as well.


I was talking with Bren tonight about pulleys, we can go smaller but I can see no benefit doing that yet, there is a lot of PSI on the table there someplace

[TVS]

Tim/ImpulsesV6 - we are hoping to have ours (VZ) tuned with the 61mm this week or next week, so hopefully we have some more information to input into this post. We run 2.5" plumbing all the way to just before the TB then step it up to whatever the TB size is. Our cooler is a bar and plate and long and thin compared to ImpulsesV6's.

[impulsesv6]

but pipework supplied as the raptor kit, and testing of different coolers, and no cooler... there was no difference in boost..

will the flowed heads of the alloytec make a difference to boost?
does the overall length of the pipework make a difference - volume?
same as the volume of the intake manifold - ?


FYI: capa recommend 3" pipework and the same bosch bov's and the same cooler



edit... if i go straight from charger to the tb (non-intercooled) what would the expected boost be? - i understand 1-1.5psi loss in an intercooling system is usual

[Raptor Charged VX]

Ok so cooler not an issue, and yes a smaller pulley would give the ten pound of boost that should be but still at the same loss there is now, maybe a full pipework refit, stainless instead of alloy? could the BOV's not be closing properly, a leak in the tank of the cooler, im proberly on grasping at straws but im just trying to think would it could be. I think one other thing is from the charger output IE" i use a 2.5 reducer to a 3 but i have it as close to the centre of the charger as possible so the 3inch cooler pipe actually has the 2.5 inch charger snail outlet inside it a bit , dont know might not mean shit, just want to help!

[Raptorsc]

edit... if i go straight from charger to the tb (non-intercooled) what would the expected boost be? - i understand 1-1.5psi loss in an intercooling system is usual

Matt has checked this on Ed's white VZ, was 12psi on the 64mm pulley, the intake to charger may have been open (no pipes) at the time also



This next suggestion is HIGHLY RISKY

If you were to remove the intake of the charger entirely and go for a quick squirt I wonder what the pressure would be, air feed into charger not wonderful but if restricted with pipe you could see strong gains. THE RISK IS SUCKING SOMETHING IN (foreign objects) during this test.

[Raptor Charged VX]

yes if you skipped the cooler you would show what the boost should be in theory, and yes shorter the pipe the better, and if you look at TVS his pipework is all sqaure lines and smooth flowing,

[Raptorsc]

That flow into the cooler on TVS rig is awesome, would do it in 3" myself but that is SMOOTH.

What does the intake to charger look like Damo?

[Raptorsc]

TVS

I do have your intake pic here, looks awesome and would be problem free, if I was you Damo I will kill that silicone outlet bend otherwise quite decent. Lets see if 2.5" can do it.......

See first pic in this post

VZ Alloytec Kit Development

[Raptorsc]

Well there has been a ph call and some devious experimentation is going on

Not sure when the info will come in and in what form but someone seems to have found a way to get more air into their motor up to a point