New Holden SIDI Alloytecs

[BIG-EV]

Hey just wondering with the new holden SIDI alloytecs how well do they go with a raptor charger? would that work even better with the direct injection? can u run higher boost? am planning to buy a new Commodore. or should i just keep saving for an ss hehe

ta

ev

[UFO]

the sidi engines run at a higher compression because of the direct injection, and even though its a 'new' technology over here, in europe its been around for ages and they definitely have turbo direct injection engines. but my thinking is it's going to take a while for aftermarket force fed engines to become easily available here.

but i'd be keen for a kit to be developed as well! unfortunately, its always the 'trailblazers' that have to pay through the ass to get the work and development done, then for everyone else its 'off the shelf'. happened to me in a previous car... was the first bloke around with a certain turbo conversion and it cost be bucket loads, and in only 3 years after there were others doing it for less than 1/2 the price .

you first .

[Raptorsc]

All good comment here

I think making hardware for it is a snack, however the tuning ............... THE TUNING .......... how big a challenge is it....... no one knows.

The compression is very high but we can still go to 6psi and with very high compression that small amount of boost will make quite big numbers.

[Brook]

One of the problems will be the injectors delivering extra fuel, being direct injected means you can only delivery fuel on the compression stroke compared to all four strokes when injecting into a port pre valve. Also as the pressure at the injector can be up to 1750psi I don't see that you could increase pressure to get increased flow.

I have searched the web because in America their Caddies & the Camaro coupe use these motors - some models from 2003 with no luck for forced induction.

Still it's just a matter of time & in under three years my warranty expires so I have my fingers crossed :-)

[rxv3000]

the only problem I can see is that the new engine is only 3lts you cant make up for cubes.

[Tsunamix]

theres also a 3.6

[kuzman89]

don't see the point in supercharging the 3.0l at all, if you want the extra power you would think the 3.6l would be a smarter choice

[Raptorsc]

The 3.0 needs a superstrong boost, some high pressure turbos hung on those intergrated manifolds should work a treat, BUT you can't run high pressure so forget that plan.

What to do with SIDI 6 cyl engine hey??

[Raptor Charged VX]

just buy an ecotec

[kuzman89]

just buy an ecotec

F*ck that, buy a V8 with that thinking, don't waste your time on an ecotec

[SV6SidiUTE]

F*ck that, buy a V8 with that thinking, don't waste your time on an ecotec

well our friends in america have slapped a turbo on the camaro with 6 psi boost i think it was, they claim an excess of 290kw at the wheels

[monaro327]

well our friends in america have slapped a turbo on the camaro with 6 psi boost i think it was, they claim an excess of 290kw at the wheels

thats pretty disappointing profllow turboed a VZ alloytec 3.6l exec(only has cam phasers on inlet) and made 276rwkw on 7psi.

[Raptorsc]

A stroke of luck

A kind person in Mackay has offered his vehicle for some potential prototyping work - he has a series II SIDI 3.6

How this shapes up will depend on a lot of things working out but we will do our best to bring this together, a lot of potential in a motor that is 210kw stock!

Exciting - this thread will now become a sticky since we have possibilities

[smithykicks]

Hi Tim, yeah id be keen to catch up sometime late this week, iv got your number here and will get in contact with you. Iv been doing a little homework of my own trying to suss out what the yanks have done on their 3.6Liters, heres what iv found so far GM Camaro Supercharger Kit and This is the Lingenfelter 2010 Camaro V6 Supercharger The only drama I can see with the VE 3.6 sidi engines are tuning them. How hard would the software be to get Tim? Iam hearing a company called trifecta (<speeling?) over in the states that are tuning the v6 camaros, would it be hard to get that sort of software over to Aus? Any ways if there is anyone that can shed any light on this it would be great. Cheers.

[astroham]

Mace have some tuning software available havent tried or read much about it but there is a thread on here somewhere about it... also there is a place in sydney that can do a custom dyno tune on it ... i got 30 rwkw out of just exhaust extractors etc ... put it up to 180 atw

[Raptorsc]

Mace have a specific thread for that

[Raptorsc]

I have an enquiry out on the maximum duty cycle that an SIDI has on the injectors at full power

I will see what margin there is an figure what boost can be applied and work out a max power figure - in turn determining the viability of an SC kit

For now there isnt any option to upgrade the SIDI injectors

[Raptorsc]

A non SIDI injector runs at around the 60psi fuel pressure mark

An SIDI injector runs at up to - The high side starts at the high pressure pump which is located at the rear of the cylinder head. It is driven by extra lobes on the camshaft. This pump is capable of delivering fuel at a pressure of 2176 psi (15000 kPa)


If anyone viewing this post is a Holden tech, could you find out the maximum flow rate of the injectors for a 3.6 SIDI engine for me and post it up here.


See attached pictures of the injectors

[Raptor Charged VX]

they are some snazzy looking injectors

[Raptorsc]

just buy an ecotec

The quote above is nearly correct, to it we could add also "any non SIDI Alloytec)

Continuing on

Information that has come to hand on SIDI is as follows

1. The injector has a very narrow flow range, therefore it has nothing much left over to tolerate any boost

2. The injector is no longer considered a service item, therefore if you really do want to change the injector you HAVE to remove the cylinder head to make any change. THIS IS NOT DIY FRIENDLY AND REALLY MAKES UPGRADING THE SIDI impossible for anything under $10k

3. There are no higher flow injectors available. There is a SAAB with Alloytec Turbo that does have a higher flow injector however no one is sure if those injectors can be bought in the aftermarket - imagine what they might COST!!!

I think the SIDI is going to be like the Mazda MPS turbo (also direct injection) - unmodifyable except for some rich tuning GURU.

Of course we could always go back to the future and add a couple of upstream injectors to supply fuelling for maybe a 4psi charger system but for all the bother - i seriously doubt its worth it.


SIDI - OVER AND OUT!!

[Jarp]

Oh that is such bad news...am shattered. Thanks for the research effort and post though....is good to know even though it sux. Well will be saving my money for the VF 5lt then. Wonder if the DI V8 will be in a similar boat?

[Raptorsc]

There is a DI V8 coming???

I first became aware of this with the LEXUS IS250 V6 which was DI, found no one would touch it world wide pretty much and the one kit only offered like 20% increase for around $9k!!!!

[Jarp]

Had a quick read of an SAE paper on the Bosch Motec system that the sidi utilises. From what I read the fuel pump currently operates between 30bar (idle) and 120bar (7000rpm) and is capable of 200 bar. The HDEV5 injectors I also read are also capable 200bar. I have no technical expertise in this but does that not suggest that the fuel system is currently only running at 60%?

[Raptorsc]

Jarp

Those are measurements of pressure, the thing you need to know are the measurements of fuel flow volume

The flow capacity of the injectors is insufficient as reported to us

[Jarp]

OK as I said I know bugger all about this stuff but for those that do the following is from the Bosch specs on the HDEV5 - Flow rate at 100 bar: up to 1,500 cm3/min (Nheptane) What would the flow need to be? I can't find any data on what the current max flow the sidi uses though.
Edit: I should read previous posts better before posting soz.