General questions relating to Supercharging V6's

[Raptorsc]

Lets try a thread here about supercharging questions in general. Will keep it to the Holden V6 for now, if there is demand for info regarding other engines we could try starting another thread. The questions do not specifically have to be about Raptor product, this is more a general help thread for forum members

So take it away

[TheForgotten]

I'll go first then... what's the maximum safe compression you can run for a rebuilt engine with a blower (of any make)?

just noticed you're in Mackay... you have a shop here?

[Raptorsc]

As you can see it is variable, depends on pressure you want to run, the grade of fuel you have access to, combustion chamber design, camshaft and on and on. Way too much for me to cover. What I am going to provide here is a very useful chart. Boost pressure is across the top and engine static compression is down the left side. The figures out in the middle are the static plus the boost giving total compression. Keeping <13:5 total compression is a suggestion.

Of course no sooner than I have said that and everyone can cite examples of engines and kits far above 13.5 :1 and to the opposite side of the scale as well.

Seek advice from your tuner/engine builder as to what total compression is good for your machine especially at rebuild time.


Enjoy


Yes we are in Mackay, we only have our manufacturing premises, not open to public. We distribute via the trade and web. If you are in Mackay you can purchase Raptor from the following resellers, JAM Performance, LS1 Proformance and PRE Dyno Tuning

[2002 VY]

How long will it be before you have superchargers for VY's and roughly what would the price be including shipping to NSW

[Raptorsc]

PM sent. A couple more details and we can give you a price.

[dan-wess]

G'Day
I got a standard VY 'S' 2004 and was just wondering what a S/C actually does?? From what i understand they force feed air?? Apart from the extra power what effect do they have on fuel usage, engine reliabitity, overall engine life? and as above about how much for a kit and do you have a feel for around how much a mechanic would charfe to fit, I have a feeling that it has a few 000's on the end of it.
Thanks for your time
Dan

[Raptorsc]

dan-wess


For some basic supercharger theory I will refer you to our webpage http://www.raptorsc.com.au/products.php this explains briefly how the supercharger works.

The supercharger does forcefeed air into the engine, and more power is made when more fuel is added to this air, as a result more engery (thermal) is released and in turn exerts increased force onto the pistons giving the seat of your pants a bigger thrill

Does this effect fuel usage, well that depends on your driving style, if you drive around never using any of the available boost then your fuel economy will be identical to what it is now. If you give it full throttle everywhere then your full throttle fuel consumption will be greater than it is now.

Does it effect engine reliability, in its self the SC system will stress the engine more than it currently is but not greater than what it can take. Reliability is more often determined by servicing frequency, fuel quality, tuning, oil quality and driver use/abuse. All the same factors are true in terms of engine life.

I will PM you the kit price


Fitting

Well how long is a piece of string? I will cite some examples and leave you to work the rest out. These are proven examples.

A normal DIY person and mate on a Saturday will take most of the day to fit it.

A reasonable mechanic who has never seen the kit before can get it sorted in 5 hrs.

A person familiar with the kit with an offsider will go from stock to driving away boosted in 2hrs max, (and thats on a Friday afternoon lol)

Most people have an idea what a mechanics hourly rate is so you should be able to work it out from that. Shouldn't be too many 0's on it lol

Hope thats covered it for you.

[TheForgotten]

What about engineering approval?
engine management? I was talking to a friend tonight who has a raptor fitted, and he uses a piggyback ECU (custom built according to him) could the delco just be altered with kalmaker?

[Raptorsc]

The forgotten

Transport department approval in Qld for Raptor is straight forward, any kit fitted by us in Qld will generally be carrying the blue mod plate and be in compliance with regulations. Cost is generally $100 if done through us.

There are some people with a Raptor supercharger fitted by resellers (JAM), these resellers sometimes choose to offer their own management solution, we think in the case you are talking about the vehicle will have a Moristech piggyback ECU fitted. One of our resellers is right into those.

If a full kit is purchased from Raptor it will contain a new MEMCAL unless you choose to have your own tuner do a custom tune. When you purchase a kit/system you can specify if you want a new memcal or whether you want the piggyback when purchasing from an agent.

You in Mackay or close by?

[TheForgotten]

yeah mate I'm in mackay.
Don't know if you ever met Alan (white s1 VG manual ute with red VT Clubby kit) but anyway, he's who I've been talking to.
I'd like to fit the kit myself, but as always, some things may need alteration, or I might have insufficient tools (hey, I'm working on it).
Not sure about the brand, but he had it fitted and tuned by JAM. I have nothing against any of your resellers, but in my limited experience, you can get things cheaper by buying it yourself, but most shops don't like to skimp out on the mark-up they can get as a reseller.
not too sure about an aftermarket ECU, as I have the fabulous electronic auto (definitely considering converting to hydraulic with the new engine). oh wait.. piggyback... never mind

[Raptorsc]

The Forgotten, no I haven't met Alan and have only seen that vehicle at a distance.

You are sincerely welcome to fit the kit yourself 99% of all Raptor customer do their own fitting. There is nothing to modify, so apart from basic tools you will be just fine.

You can buy a tuned MEMCAL with the system, you could add a piggyback ECU ....... whatever, there are all manner of options should you want to do that. The tune supplied by Raptor will cover the following without retune, intercooler, higher lift rockers and extractors/exhaust.

PM me me with phone number if you want to have a discussion about it, whatever we are easy.

[Pauly.]

hey. ive got a vt calais and im lookin at gettin it charged. only thing is, my calais factory dual fuel. is this possible to do?

[Raptorsc]

Pauly

It could be, would like to see an image of the engine bay, from left side overhead would be best. Will comment then

[GOTMYN]

Hi There, I am very interested in getting hold of a do it yourself kit, I have heard a few people mention that this kit is good for big KW but not so good for 1/4 mile times as the best boost and power is found above 5000rpm onwards. Is this the case? Im not very knowledged in these applications and don't want to make a wrong descission. I have always owned v8's and lived with lots of headwork, camshafts etc to get power, but have decided to go in a reliable direction and force feed a VY V6. My car has just turned 80,000km and is in as new nick with full service history and caring original owner so I feel it's a good candidate. I don't have exhaust or any mod's yet, just 18's and super low king springs. How is the best way of getting hold of one of these kits from Melb?

Stab and Steer.

[Raptorsc]

Chris

First things first, as of Monday Raptor should own a VY V6! We have done this because we recogized the special tuning needs of the VU - VY series ECOTEC V6. The car is a standard Exec V6 series 2 with 54 000km on the clock! Once we get all this sorted on our car we know we can supply it to customers like yourself. Mechanically its all the same as VS onwards but the computers differ.

OK the details

1. Yes our systems do produce good kw numbers generally, there is the odd instance were a vehicle will need to be specifically tuned for best results.

2. The boost rise of a Raptor supercharger is give or take a fraction identical to other centrifugal superchargers. If you check with our customers they will happily tell you where the boost feel really starts ...... usually around 3k rpm in the ECOTEC engine series is where the grin factor kicks in. The difference is that the Raptor V will produce a cooler boost charge than most if not all the opposing brand superchargers meaning more power per psi hence our good numbers.

3. Does Raptor have big power but not good quartermile times? Well we have seen time slips for low 13s, low 14s and a low 15 (due to faulty trans). In all instances the vehicles with Raptor kits of similar power output can achieve similar quartermile times with the same driver in each, meaning most of the vehicle with Raptor kits if equipped with good rubber could run a 13 sec of some sort. The power is always there, tyres, drivers and mechanical condition are limits, not excuses.

3. The Km's on your vehicle is perfect as in our case also.

4. We are guessing your vehicle is automatic ......... ours is.

5. We will be dynoing and quartermiling our vehicle from stock through to boosted (ProStreet system) and then later on boosted with intercooling (ProStreet intercooled).

6. Where could you pick a Raptor system up? Well you could get it directly from us, we guess you might be doing the install yourself so essentially you wouldn't be needing any help. Install instructions come with the system on how to effortlessly install the Raptor SC onto your engine. If you do need an installer we could arrange competent people to do that.

[GOTMYN]

Well, let's just say Im Anticipating the readyness off this combo. when do you feel you will have a kit ready for distribution and how much$$? I am very Keen and was considering a purchase early next week but I am Patient to wait for a good product. also, Is it Legal to have a charger installed and driven on Vic Roads without engineers? Not that Im too concerned, would just like to know where I stand if I get Pulled up. Can't wait to hear you results.
Many thanks.

[Raptorsc]

I am just querying FIT at the moment on why the VY ECOTEC cannot use their high lift rockers, normally recommend these as an upgrade you can choose to boost power even further.

Our initial tune will be based on a stock vehicle with extractors and a decent 2.5" exhaust system mated up with Raptor ProStreet SC kit

Not sure on development time but thinking 5 weeks at this stage to be sure its all good, also will attempt to get quartermile times and dyno readouts from what gives what.

You would need your kit engineered to be within the regs down there to keep the regulatory people happy. Same for any system.

Once we start documenting our progress I will put it all in the VS-VY thread


Chris, its also worth mentioning no matter what system you go with you should be heading to an exhaust system specialist ASAP and getting good extractor/2.5" pipe combo, its a necessity to see the max gains

[1991_Vn2nV]

Just a quick question... for your stage 2 kit on a VN what diff gears would work best with your supercharger for the quarter mile? I know it depends on other mods as well, but would 3.89's be a better option than the 3.73's because the Raptor makes more power top end in the RPM range correct?

[Raptorsc]

VN2NV

A good question....

Whether or not a Raptor V (or any other centrifugal blower) is used, changing the diff gears to get a Commodore going quicker down the quarter is extremely common whether V6 or Gen 3 V8, NA, supercharged or turbo.

Now as for what ratio suits a Raptor equipped car, the difference between 3.73 and 3.89 is not really that great and obviously the 3.89 will give a slightly better result. We have customer who went to 3.9s (I think) and was extremely happy with the result it gave. One thing we think about when changing diff ratios is fuel economy, a balance between quicker launches and fuel economy in cruise mode is worth a thought too.

However on the issue of stall converters a customer with a VN has a 2500rpm stall which he reports completely transformed the car also while still using the standard diff ratio but in limited slip form. The 2500rpm is all that is needed to get the Raptor biting hard for a superior launch from an auto equipped car from experience so far.

Hope that helped, shows a couple of different ways to bring the cars on harder and probably a combo of the both items would be most superior.

[1991_Vn2nV]

Cheers man

[hinterland]

what revs does boost come on at,is it instant or laggy and what boost will they go to.v6 im talkin

[Raptorsc]

Hinterland

Apologies for missing your post

Most owners of Commodores with Raptor systems will tell you the engine definitely is serious from 2800 rpm on, and the effect builds and builds, there is no lag as such since there is always some postive pressure even at 1500 rpm.

Boost can be up to 13 psi on the V6 if needed.

[VZ-Rob]

G'day just back from a round trip to Canberra
Take off is slugish at best
the VZ auto is just ticking over 10K on the clock
what "Raptor" system will I need to get a better take off?

I do about 800Ks a week with 50% highway use on winding roads
1/2 of that on steep inclines.

[Raptorsc]

VZ ROB

Raptor does not currently have a supercharging solution for the VZ Alloytec, will be a while coming yet.

Something we noticed today was this

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_3062/article.html

The thing with the ALLOYTEC has been getting the ECU doing what has to be done without throwing fault codes. Once our tuner has the gear for this ECUs we will offer a SC kit.

Thanks for checking with us

[immortality]

how would you increase the psi output of your charger?