Raptor Compound Supercharging for ECOTEC

[Raptorsc]

About time for a new thread hey, I will elaborate more later but here are a couple of phone pics taken at our metal fabricator's workshop

You can see whats happening, the goal is a 16-24psi compound supercharger system, this will provide power levels deep into the zone currently occupied by turbocharger systems but with only 30% of the work.

There will be 2 intercoolers with a system cooling capacity suited 1100hp

Have a peek and all questions welcome

The components used in the pic are all dummy pieces and not meant to impress anyone, simply laying the whole system out and making the brackets etc before we drop the motor in.

The 16psi test will be on the STOCK ECOTEC, George from ProFlow Turbo assures me we can do this without any problem!!!!! Lets find out

[immortality]

should be interesting

[aussiguy87]

too bad you guys arent lookin at doin a reverse rotation kit would look like a twin turbo kit if it were still very interesting

[Stupa]

With this twin system, would it work with 10:1 compression, forged internals and running liquid gas injection?

[psivyv6]

hey tim this mite sound dumb but will this bolt on it you already hav normal raptor v kit?
do you no a price what these r worth?

[Pub247]

One question i have is cost compared to a turbo kit ? obviously you havent even thought about a final price but if it inline with and turbo kit i can see people having interest

[Raptorsc]

The project is actually racing along, the setup is now a V 3.0 and looking very good.

I will come up with some more images next week once motor is in car.

We looked at it today and reckon its not going to be anywhere near as expensive as we might have first thought.

Will bolt on in around 5 - 7hrs, suprising how easy this is turning out to be.

If you have a Raptor V headunit already it will be perfect, all you will need is a new bracket, a second charger and associated parts.

[psivyv6]

this sounds great i want 1 already can u pm me or post up a price as soon as u know please

[Raptorsc]

Will refer to the Compound Supercharger System as CSS from now on

Today the engine went in the car and now we can see what the system will look like, right away we see the chargers are too low and too close but that will be rectified tomorrow.

We are certainly getting close to the last of the mock ups now, then its onto locating the dual intercooler system and associated pipework

Enjoy

[drift-it]

wow, nice work on the "CSS"...looks sick!!! will it be one charger feeding the other then into the manifold/or will it go 2 in to 1/or twin manifold???

[vyls1wa]

ok ok, so dare i say it, but when ya doing this for the ls1

[greenfoam]

wow, nice work on the "CSS"...looks sick!!! will it be one charger feeding the other then into the manifold/or will it go 2 in to 1/or twin manifold???

Assuming It's one into the other but may not be . It should cure the inherent problem with centrifugals blowers not boosting at low rpm a bit. If you go and see Lukes thread with his twincharger or super turbo setup he just finished you can get an idea of how it works and how much extra boost you get doing it the official way (turbo into blower). Two centrifugals wont be as effective as a turbo into blower no 20 psi under 3000 rpms or anything like that since you don't get more spool and then more boost and more spool etc etc etc and are still depending on engine rpm. But it will be pretty interesting to see how well it does work and how well the second blower will compress the allready compressed air etc, this is a really rare (unheard of? setup). Very interesting to see how well it works

[delcowizzid]

im wondering why the 2x1100 HP capable water to air intercoolers big over kill least they are nice and cheap about $300 on ebay and they work great.

[Raptorsc]

With compounding every prior pressure point is doubled but you have the added driveability that centrifugals give which is very important when you dive into the high pressure range. Having 20psi at 3000rpm is completely useless on the street, you will never find traction for this amount of torque.

This should actually be the best outcome for high boost and vehicle control.

The concept is:

one supercharger produces air compressed to 10psi

That goes into a small WTA intercooler core to bring temp back to 37c

That pressurised and cooled air is fed into intake of second supercharger where its pressure is close to doubled.

The now high pressure air is fed into a second high volume WTA cooler and then directed to V6 engine through an LS1 AFM.

Tuning via the delco computer.

this is a really rare (unheard of? setup).

Rare but not unheard of, very common in turbocharging, particularly on the F250s, Dodge's etc in the USA, a compound turbo kit is all the rage and the new Ford V8 diesels are coming out factory fresh with compound turbo system.

How about in supercharging then, well in 1957 the Ford Thunderbird Y Block V8 had a factory supercharger option which was a Paxton VS57/VR57 which with its ball drive was making about 6psi, this was not going to be putting down a Chevy at the Daytona Beach races. However with 2 VS57's compounded the old Y Block suddenly was podium ready ....... Getting that 6psi up to around 12psi makes a quick V8 anytime

The Spitfire had various supercharger configurations also, it had single stage, then 2 stage (compound) and then 2 speed 2stage for really big pressure for high altitudes.

There you go, a bit of history and I am sure there are plenty examples of it here and there that we never here about around the world. In every case it produces enormous power outputs with low stress on the superchargers themselves.

[fabz]

hey tim..........if you need another mock up car, like the vt this looks like something im keen to take part in!!

[Raptorsc]

Fabz

You got a good supply of 5 speed tranny's?

[psivyv6]

i wood b keen as to help in anyway if possible 2

[drift-it]

Assuming It's one into the other but may not be . It should cure the inherent problem with centrifugals blowers not boosting at low rpm a bit. If you go and see Lukes thread with his twincharger or super turbo setup he just finished you can get an idea of how it works and how much extra boost you get doing it the official way (turbo into blower). Two centrifugals wont be as effective as a turbo into blower no 20 psi under 3000 rpms or anything like that since you don't get more spool and then more boost and more spool etc etc etc and are still depending on engine rpm. But it will be pretty interesting to see how well it does work and how well the second blower will compress the allready compressed air etc, this is a really rare (unheard of? setup). Very interesting to see how well it works

well ive seen a setup on a malloo ute on youtube where a side mount feeds a top mount!!! so i guess this is sorta the same principal... very loud induction noise!!!

[greenfoam]

I ment unheard of with two centrifugal blowers , I know they were in aircraft but haven't seen anyone do this to a car. It's fairly common using multiple turbos and turbos into roots or even roots into roots. But I haven't seen it done like this, looking forward to seeing what happens.

Re traction, Luke is getting traction in second gear now @ 20 psi and for 360 rwkw on 225 street tyres that's pretty good. the extra torque and filling in the off boost dip in the power curve has made it alot more tractable, even with over 700 NM at the back wheels (1:1). The major problem with high powered turbo cars getting traction is the difference between off boost power and full boost power. Most of them start spinning on the top end of 1st, smooth out the curve and you get alot more drivability

[Raptorsc]

Turbos are centrifugal compressors obviously and having a mechanical drive as we do changes the characteristics but when all said and done is there is one type of compressor that compounds both well and efficiently its always been the centrifugal.

Going to be interesting for sure, my VY struggles for traction with the power it has at 11psi, at 22psi there wouldn't be any grip at all, just tyre bills


Am interested if anyone can find anything on the web about compounded centrifugals, we will be the first in recent history to do this in Australia - with centrifugals

[delcowizzid]

wont running 2 matching chargers at the same rpm one into the other still only make the same boost its not like it will suck double the air one will just pass the air to the other wont it

[greenfoam]

I'm kinda thinking the same that with the 2 running independant will be better than one into the other in this case but there's only one way to know for sure, test it out easy to change the pipes around if it doesn't work. I think there will be some multiplying of boost but you would get x2 with them seperated anyway

[delcowizzid]

if they were both geared differently maybe it would work but if they are both geared the same and pulling the same revs and flowing the same i just dont see it working somehow

[fabz]

Fabz

You got a good supply of 5 speed tranny's?

haha well we all know how much fun i have had with the getrag in the past lol. Ill be keeping an eye on the progress of the build tim, this would be wicked fun and would certinally be worth it down the track!

Cheers.

PS belt issue was a busted tensioner so its being replaced, apart from that i just want it louder!

[Raptorsc]

Be ready to see what Raptorwizzid can do hey, it works the same for air or water, did you know that hey! What do they both have in common, they are fluids.

Something a bit closer to home that maybe you can relate to is a Davey firefighter pump, typically fitted with 5.5hp engine, now they have the yellow ended pump which is single stage and makes around 45psi, then they have the red ended pump (or did have) and it simply has another impeller, the same size on the same shaft (crankshaft) and Davey feed the water from the first into the second and whaddya know it then makes 90 - 110psi depending on RPM, the only thing which goes backwards when dealing with water is the flow goes down. The single stage pump probably does 450 l/pm where as the 2 stage does around 280 l/pm. Those are numbers coming from the past and did not look them up specifically today. The high flow option was to feed one yellow ended pump into another, this gave high flow and high pressure - hey thats a compound pumping arrangement.

Anyhow let Raptor do the research (as done by Paxton in the past) and bring this scheme to life again. In the case of SN93's there was no way to increase the speed on the second unit, they simply ran both at their 6psi limit and bingo race winner