whinges about work...

[VP_commo_driver]

ok ive bin at this same place for nearly 9 months ( i work at a sawmill) ive put up with alot there (underpaid, overworked and nothing i can do about it...) but lately its getting worse guys who have bin there not even half as long as me are getting promoted just because the boss likes them more, seriously why would anyone promote people who are late for work, dont come in all the time, etc over someone whos there early everyday and clocks out late, grr this drives me up the wall i get jibbed on being promoted and even worse i was going to get an apprenticeship there, they gave it too the same person who i mentioned above, hes younger and gets paid more then me... grr im starting to doubt the new laws giving bosses, etc more rights are good...

[shaggerz]

Trouble is those things are extremely difficult to prove... you know it and they know it but theres little that can be done about it. I've been in a similar situation and the only solution in the end was to quit and find a better employer. In the end their profits will suffer because they hired the lesser employee, but you cant make them see it so the only thing to do is find somewhere better to work unfortunately.

[calais_cruzin]

Yeah just bout the only thing u can do is try make sure u do everything possible to make u look good n try n sabotage the other fella so u can get the premotion to his spot....

Would be hard to do in a sawmill but if tha boss is playin favorites u gotta do sumfink bout it b4 u get rorted

[VP_commo_driver]

already bin rorted, looking for another job atm not much work here tho =(

[Cane_It]

vote with ya feet,

i left a good job for something "better" only to find out a few months in that the place was a disoragnised mess instead of the picture of professionalism they painted for me. they canned my overtime and wouldnt give me more staff..
in the end i said bye bye
I knew that leaving would create problems for them so I did as they cost me quite a bit of cash.

[89vncommy]

Don't take this the wrong way VP_commo_driver ... but ...

I am an employer, and see a lot of people cry out favouritism where I work, and quite frankly it pisses me off.... We try our hardest to not look like we are playing favourites, and even go out of our way to make sure we are not doing anything that could be perceived as favouritism. Very frustrating !!!

I know with my management style, 2 of the most important things I look at are punctuality, and reliability. If a team member can not demonstrate those 2 key trait's then all others will get more of my time to help them develop. I have some people here that I hire, and within 6 months of employment they are performing better then some of the team members that have been here from 1-5 years. I have helped assist those team members and moved them on, and the older tenured people scream out "favouritism".

At the end of the day, most companies are "Pay for performance" as oppose to the old Public Servant jobs where it was "Pay for Tenure".

I am not saying you are not performing, but have you tried to speak with your boss to find out (constructively and pro-actively) what you may need to do to show the skills that these others may have... I have monthly 1 on 1 coaching and feedback sessions where I discuss performance of the individuals, and let them know how their results are comparing to the team average. And talk about any issues I may have, or the employee may have that they wish to discuss. It is either a formal or informal discussion, and the team member sets the tone and pace of the 1 on 1.

If addressing the issue with your manager does not work, then yes, maybe it is a favouritism issue... I do know that in my years of work I have seen a pretty small percentage of people only promoted because the get along with the boss. But these people end up falling flat on their arse because the people under them can't perform. I have seen the managers "moved on" and the employees then follow the same process when a new manager takes over.

I was always taught the golden rule to management is to promote people that will be able to take your place. And the easiest way to keep your boss happy, is to keep his boss off his back ...

But anyway, my rant is over... I hope it all improves for you, but as the others have said... If you don't think the job is working, then just walk and let the fall down.

[Reaper]

Yeah just bout the only thing u can do is try make sure u do everything possible to make u look good n try n sabotage the other fella so u can get the premotion to his spot....

Would be hard to do in a sawmill but if tha boss is playin favorites u gotta do sumfink bout it b4 u get rorted

yeah - great idea einstein - just imagine how great you are going to look when you get caught sabotaging the other guy. It's always the other guys' fault you were passed over for promotion - it's time to get revenge!

I really hope your post was supposed to be a joke.

Reaper

[Reaper]

ok ive bin at this same place for nearly 9 months ( i work at a sawmill) ive put up with alot there (underpaid, overworked and nothing i can do about it...)

We are all overworked and underpaid. Fact of life - get used to it!

but lately its getting worse guys who have bin there not even half as long as me are getting promoted just because the boss likes them more, seriously why would anyone promote people who are late for work, dont come in all the time, etc over someone whos there early everyday and clocks out late, grr this drives me up the wall i get jibbed on being promoted and even worse i was going to get an apprenticeship there, they gave it too the same person who i mentioned above, hes younger and gets paid more then me... grr im starting to doubt the new laws giving bosses, etc more rights are good...

As I posted in an un-employment thread. The *ONLY* person responsible for your predicament is you. So you missed out on some promotion - you can take your attitude that it's favoritism or on the other hand, maybe that guy is able to do something that you can't.

Even if he is late every day, he might have some skill that outranks his tardiness. Yep he is 15 min late each day but manages to put out in his 7.75 hours (or whatever) what a normal guy takes 15 hours to do. That could be one example.

I'd take the attiude - I missed out this time, lets see what could have caused it. I wouldn't bother asking (you probably won't get a complete answer anyway), just observe - what do my co-workers/managers/everybody do that is better than me? When you see something just try and work on one thing at a time.

An example might be how the guy talks to people. Some people are instantly engaging and seem to get along with everybody whilst others struggle to get along with their own cat. Just observe how this person acts when they are near - It could be as simple as a broad smile and a confident "hi - how are you?" when they meet somebody or it could be deeper. Just work on 1 thing at a time and you will be suprised at how quickly things change. I wound up managing a factory of 35 guys when I was 22 yo by taking this attitude.

Also remember - some jobs are just not for you. Imagine you are an apple in a bowl of fruit. You might be the best looking/tasting apple ever grown but if somebody wants an orange, you are just not going to get the gig. No big deal - somebody who wants an apple will come along eventually. In the mean time, try and learn from the experience and keep a positive attitude.

Oh - don't stress about how much you are paid relative to your co-workers. I started at 19 paid a ton less than everybody else in the place. I knew it at the time but didn't pay it much attention. Now I'm paid around 3x what everybody else here earns. I don't worry what the next guy gets - that means I'd have to take too much of a pay cut to make it equal

Reaper

[89vncommy]

Also remember - some jobs are just not for you. Imagine you are an apple in a bowl of fruit. You might be the best looking/tasting apple ever grown but if somebody wants an orange, you are just not going to get the gig. No big deal - somebody who wants an apple will come along eventually. In the mean time, try and learn from the experience and keep a positive attitude.
Reaper

That is so true ... I like that one ...

[calais_cruzin]

yeah - great idea einstein - just imagine how great you are going to look when you get caught sabotaging the other guy. It's always the other guys' fault you were passed over for promotion - it's time to get revenge!

I really hope your post was supposed to be a joke.

Reaper

Reaper - Yeah first part of post wasnt joke but yeah the sabotage bit was, i didnt even think i rote that...

VP_Commo - I would just work as hard as you can and ask your boss what area's they think u could improve in.

If they dont give you a good talk on how u could improve, it would seem they dont need any improvment from you and that they are happy with how you are working at the moment, good for them but not for you if u are look for a promo.

Sorry about the stupid post sabotage wasnt a good choice of wording.

Spell checked

[Reaper]

HA Yeah first part of post wasnt joke but yeah the sabotage bit was, i didnt even think i rote that...

Hehehe well you are 1/2 right.

Yeah i would just work as hard as u can n ask ur boss what area'a they think u could improve in....

If they dont give you a good talk on how u could improve, it would seem they dont want improvment n that they are happy with how u work atm, good for them but not for you if u are look for a promo

Huh??? Speak english boy - english!

Sorry bout the stupid post sabotage wasnt a good choice of wording

Learning some grammer and spelling at least most of the words in a paragraph correctly would go a long way to improving your prospects.

Reaper

[VP_commo_driver]

We are all overworked and underpaid. Fact of life - get used to it!



As I posted in an un-employment thread. The *ONLY* person responsible for your predicament is you. So you missed out on some promotion - you can take your attitude that it's favoritism or on the other hand, maybe that guy is able to do something that you can't.

Even if he is late every day, he might have some skill that outranks his tardiness. Yep he is 15 min late each day but manages to put out in his 7.75 hours (or whatever) what a normal guy takes 15 hours to do. That could be one example.

I'd take the attiude - I missed out this time, lets see what could have caused it. I wouldn't bother asking (you probably won't get a complete answer anyway), just observe - what do my co-workers/managers/everybody do that is better than me? When you see something just try and work on one thing at a time.

An example might be how the guy talks to people. Some people are instantly engaging and seem to get along with everybody whilst others struggle to get along with their own cat. Just observe how this person acts when they are near - It could be as simple as a broad smile and a confident "hi - how are you?" when they meet somebody or it could be deeper. Just work on 1 thing at a time and you will be suprised at how quickly things change. I wound up managing a factory of 35 guys when I was 22 yo by taking this attitude.

Also remember - some jobs are just not for you. Imagine you are an apple in a bowl of fruit. You might be the best looking/tasting apple ever grown but if somebody wants an orange, you are just not going to get the gig. No big deal - somebody who wants an apple will come along eventually. In the mean time, try and learn from the experience and keep a positive attitude.

Oh - don't stress about how much you are paid relative to your co-workers. I started at 19 paid a ton less than everybody else in the place. I knew it at the time but didn't pay it much attention. Now I'm paid around 3x what everybody else here earns. I don't worry what the next guy gets - that means I'd have to take too much of a pay cut to make it equal

Reaper

ive actually had a big go at the foreman for that and he says the reason im not payed well is because im not religious, not married adn that i live at home ( the owner of the place is a brethren) after i had a go at the foreman he gave me a payrise, a job promotion and treats me alot better then before, im on 11 bucks an hour now, hoping to get my forklift and maybe loader ticket at the end of the year and go to work at tuan sawmill for alot better money. its kinda scary how rorted the system is now within the timber industry i must say most people are being absolutely RIPPED off enourmously, id love too see working at a sawmill become an actual trade with decent money at the end of it, but what goes around comes around. for now im feelin a little better butwell just see what happens.

id like too hear about any probs anyone else has had with employers, etc here.

[MasterOfReality]

I had big issues with an employer (all will remain anonymous).

Basically i was employed with 11 others as non union labour in a highly unionised workforce. Pay was better than union workers and we were given all the assurances in the world that there will not be any problems in the workplace.

Anyway, when the shit hit the fan, the company went running.

I put up with it for 6 months, telling the company on numerous occasions what was going on. Got heaps of promises but it amounted to nothing.

One day, I walked in with a completed resignation form, chucked it on the senior engineers desk, said 'you lot can all go get f*****' and walked out.

Two weeks later started work with another company.

The best bit was, 10 of the others followed my lead, leaving the site seriously understaffed for months. hehehehe

[Reaper]

ive actually had a big go at the foreman for that and he says the reason im not payed well is because im not religious, not married adn that i live at home ( the owner of the place is a brethren) after i had a go at the foreman he gave me a payrise, a job promotion and treats me alot better then before, im on 11 bucks an hour now, hoping to get my forklift and maybe loader ticket at the end of the year and go to work at tuan sawmill for alot better money. its kinda scary how rorted the system is now within the timber industry i must say most people are being absolutely RIPPED off enourmously, id love too see working at a sawmill become an actual trade with decent money at the end of it, but what goes around comes around. for now im feelin a little better butwell just see what happens.

id like too hear about any probs anyone else has had with employers, etc here.

The timber industry is a very difficult place to be right now. The wholesale price for most timber used in the building industry is around about 60% of what it was 2 years ago. This means that the primary producers, saw mills and wholesalers are all on the bones of their ass's right now and big pay rises are going to be difficult to come by.

If you are not religous enough then maybe finding another employer would be a better long term strategy - only you can make that call. Good luck with your future.

Reaper

[VP_commo_driver]

thanks mate, i know timber has lost alot of value in the last few years. im only working there until i find an apprenticeship, which unfortunately are few and far between in my area.

[minux]

ive actually had a big go at the foreman for that and he says the reason im not payed well is because im not religious, not married adn that i live at home ( the owner of the place is a brethren) after i had a go at the foreman he gave me a payrise, a job promotion and treats me alot better then before, im on 11 bucks an hour now, hoping to get my forklift and maybe loader ticket at the end of the year and go to work at tuan sawmill for alot better money. its kinda scary how rorted the system is now within the timber industry i must say most people are being absolutely RIPPED off enourmously, id love too see working at a sawmill become an actual trade with decent money at the end of it, but what goes around comes around. for now im feelin a little better butwell just see what happens.

id like too hear about any probs anyone else has had with employers, etc here.

LMFAO, i worked for a company where it was run by family who were all in a cult, because i lived with my GF unmarried and openly admitted to having sweet kickass sex for the hell of it i was discriminated against. People who were god botherers got promoted etc, i just plugged along doing my job. In the end i found a better job, then threatened to flatten the owner after he started telling me i was sinning. I told him to get ****ed and that i was putting in notice, 1 hr later i had my holiday paid out and had 2 weeks off with pay. After i left i contacted various workcover agencies informing them of the dangerous workplace...its a legit way to piss off your ex employer

[shaggerz]

LOL class act minux. Love it.

I should have done the same with my employer when I was an apprentice. Especially since they really were a dangerous workplace. They had really stupid habits like removing guards from the machines "because they slow you down"... dodgy stuff like that. Another apprentice there, a third year, was already missing one third of the middle finger on his right hand as a result of a guard being removed.

To think that I got abused for putting the guards back on the machines before I used them!

[Doubleshadow]

The major problem between employers and employees is many times each do not take the time to look at problems from the other person's perspective. Sometimes petty jealousy gets in the way and we humans are are natural complainers. Unfortunately, the complainers are usually the ones with the loudest mouths, and they discourage other conscientious colleagues.

I have found if you give employees a lot of leeway, they end up giving back more than when you try to control them. 9 times out of 10, the people who come in late, with no reprimand, are the ones that will work late, if necessary, to get the job done. We are not all built to be punctual. Besides, I would rather have happy workers than sullen complainers. If I have to keep looking over someone shoulders for them to do their work, maybe they need to go into politics.

The other fact is a boss is fallable and may not see the things the way you do. Many times people pass the buck. If things are bad, you need to do what you can to make the workplace better. After all, you spend more waking time at work, than with your family. Of course the bottom line is if you see things that you cannot change at work that stresses you out...it may just be time to move on.

[pandaman]

LOL class act minux. Love it.

I should have done the same with my employer when I was an apprentice. Especially since they really were a dangerous workplace. They had really stupid habits like removing guards from the machines "because they slow you down"... dodgy stuff like that. Another apprentice there, a third year, was already missing one third of the middle finger on his right hand as a result of a guard being removed.

To think that I got abused for putting the guards back on the machines before I used them!

Dang, lemme guess, their favourite catchphrase was something along the lines of "work smarter, not harder!", smarter of course meaning "put yourself at as much risk as possible to ensure we come out looking good, but don't **** yourself up because that would cause us an inconvenience".

In some respects I can sympathise with Reaper's point of view, having to deal with repropate employees with no respect for their employer, but the opposite situation also exists, whereby some employers have absolutely no respect for their employees, with their beady little eyes focused firmly on the bottom line no matter the human cost.

[pandaman]

The major problem between employers and employees is many times each do not take the time to look at problems from the other person's perspective. Sometimes petty jealousy gets in the way and we humans are are natural complainers. Unfortunately, the complainers are usually the ones with the loudest mouths, and they discourage other conscientious colleagues.

I have found if you give employees a lot of leeway, they end up giving back more than when you try to control them. 9 times out of 10, the people who come in late, with no reprimand, are the ones that will work late, if necessary, to get the job done. We are not all built to be punctual. Besides, I would rather have happy workers than sullen complainers. If I have to keep looking over someone shoulders for them to do their work, maybe they need to go into politics.

The other fact is a boss is fallable and may not see the things the way you do. Many times people pass the buck. If things are bad, you need to do what you can to make the workplace better. After all, you spend more waking time at work, than with your family. Of course the bottom line is if you see things that you cannot change at work that stresses you out...it may just be time to move on.

A damn good post. I work as a casual for a business that follows a similar policy to what you've outlined. I quite often arrive at work a few minutes later than agreed due to various factors, but the boss doesn't mind because I turn up without fail roughly on time and am always willing to make up that time if there's a few extra things to be done at the end of the day. It's an arrangement that works well for everyone and sure as hell works better than if they were constantly berating me for rocking up @ five past every now and then.

[Reaper]

LOL class act minux. Love it.

I should have done the same with my employer when I was an apprentice. Especially since they really were a dangerous workplace. They had really stupid habits like removing guards from the machines "because they slow you down"... dodgy stuff like that. Another apprentice there, a third year, was already missing one third of the middle finger on his right hand as a result of a guard being removed.

To think that I got abused for putting the guards back on the machines before I used them!

Any employer who removes safety guards from machines "because they slow you down" need their heads read! If that happens in your workplace, you can ring worksafe (at least in victoria you can) anonymously and they will send an inspector to audit the site.

If there is an accident, senior managers and company directors can (and do) go to jail for things like what you have described.

Reaper

[Patrio7]

I agree with 89vncommy, keep your boss's boss happy and life gets a little eaiser, though admitably its a lot of work for a small payoff, but looking at it the other way, if you let go of the rope and then eventually the top honcho will slowly throw bricks down the chain till you get struck.

if anything good money or not i would hate to be in a mangement position. as i see it being in middle management you have to deal with the most shit. im happy being a mindless peon TBH, the pay isnt the best, i'll admit that anyday but atleast the work is easy, you get given what to do on a silver platter, you make sure you do it and try not to make a mess, heck bonus points for makign its squeaky clean, and then get a new platter.

simple.

now if only my work ethic was a little better but in all honesty calling a customer back to see how their issue is going when its obvious it isnt goign well, and there isnt much on my end i can do ( either waiting on customer to come to a decision ) does add a touch of "le sigh, do I have to?" but then again its balanced by the other end of the scale, the people who you throw the extra yard in for and they love you for it, they are the perks of my job.

oh and throwing foam footballs around whilst on calls lol, had to fight hard to hold back from laughing while helping a customer

[Doubleshadow]

I agree with 89vncommy, keep your boss's boss happy and life gets a little eaiser, though admitably its a lot of work for a small payoff, but looking at it the other way, if you let go of the rope and then eventually the top honcho will slowly throw bricks down the chain till you get struck.

if anything good money or not i would hate to be in a mangement position. as i see it being in middle management you have to deal with the most shit. im happy being a mindless peon TBH, the pay isnt the best, i'll admit that anyday but atleast the work is easy, you get given what to do on a silver platter, you make sure you do it and try not to make a mess, heck bonus points for makign its squeaky clean, and then get a new platter.

simple.

now if only my work ethic was a little better but in all honesty calling a customer back to see how their issue is going when its obvious it isnt goign well, and there isnt much on my end i can do ( either waiting on customer to come to a decision ) does add a touch of "le sigh, do I have to?" but then again its balanced by the other end of the scale, the people who you throw the extra yard in for and they love you for it, they are the perks of my job.

oh and throwing foam footballs around whilst on calls lol, had to fight hard to hold back from laughing while helping a customer

What a lot of us do not realize is that it is not the work that kills us, it is the stress. An adversal workplace makes work seems a lot harder. Stress is more responsible for diseases than actual germ/bacteria/health. But let's not get sidetracked. If we all work to elevate the work environment to a less stressful state, things would be a whole lot easier for everyone. Most experienced workers would tell you, they would rather do hard work without people/politics stresses, than do easy work in a stressful environment.

I know I am being utopian, but if we are exploring the possibilities, might as well shoot for the ideal.

[shaggerz]

LOL come to think of it, has anyone heard of the FISH program?? My work is into it in a huge way and its obscene the crap that goes on. We have a pretty good time here and always laugh and joke and muck around and for that reason its a great place to work, but the corporate knobs have decided that this is all thanks to their FISH BS and are singing its praises... its obscene hehe.

[Reaper]

if anything good money or not i would hate to be in a mangement position. as i see it being in middle management you have to deal with the most shit. im happy being a mindless peon TBH, the pay isnt the best, i'll admit that anyday but atleast the work is easy, you get given what to do on a silver platter, you make sure you do it and try not to make a mess, heck bonus points for makign its squeaky clean, and then get a new platter.

Management is just like any other job. It's not something everybody can do but it can be very rewarding. In many respects it's like coaching your local sporting team - trying to achieve something thru others. You have to deal with *everything* that happens - blokes being late, not turningup, disagreements between co-workers and/or customers, foul ups, the guy who turns up with a bad attitude because he had a fight with the mrs last night etc etc etc.

You need to be a diplomat, salesman, bastard, strategist (sp?), psychologist and have a working knowledge of the legal and taxation systems plus a good "gut instinct" for business.

The plus side for me is the satisfaction of watching the system working like a well oiled machine, knowing that I have managed to get everybody working together at their maximum. Yeah the pay is great but that is secondary for most.

Think of a train set with tracks going everywere crossing backwards and forwards. Now put on a couple of trains. Getting them to run smoothly without crashing is pretty easy. Now add 30 trains, all running flat out crossing each other with only mm to spare, never once running into each other. Imagine how good it would feel to get that set running to perfection. That is what top management is (except we are always trying to add that extra train to do even better .

Reaper