Another newbie thread

[azzfox]

Hey guys, soon I will be attempting to respray the VN in the original color dorward blue. Now I have never painted a car before but have never felt so keen to give it a go. Anyway, being a near-complete noob on the subject I have a few things I want to clear up.

Acrylic paint - I have been convinced to go acrylic because its a backyard/shed job. Should I be able to achieve the factory or similar look? As far as I understand it would have been 2k from the factory?

Single color - In direct light it looks purple. As far as I know factory paint only had the single base color? Or does this paint require a second color?

Crows feet - MAJOR crows feet on the bonnet. The boot lid too but nowhere near as deep. But I will most likely replace these 2 items as someones decided to drill random holes in the boot lid to fix the spoiler. The cracks on the bonnet as I said are pretty deep and have become a bit rusty. But now I have noticed light crows feet elsewhere on the body that cant simply be replaced. Can I just fill/sand until smooth or will I have to take it down to metal? If so how do I build it back up again? Assuming I cant just lay down primer.

Compressor - 50L 2.2hp, 174 L/min (6.1 CFM) FAD. I take it should be right for what I need it for. Probably just do one panel at a time or something anyway.

Guns - Dont have yet. Probably set a limit of $400 or so for 2 guns (I need 2 yeah?). Not actually sure what they go for but I know theres some that go for alot more! Recommendations? Gravity feed HVLP I would say, wouldnt have a clue about tip sizes. Better yet any recommended shops that could give me some advice? Im from the Warburton area but there seems to be enough shops around Bayswater and such. Will need a good respirator too.

Think I'll leave it at that for now. I had a quick search and flicked through the recent threads but direct answers are far more helpful.

Cheers!

[VP-CLUBBY]

My advice is practice on as many scrap panels as you can before you start on your car. best thing I did.. as for your technical questions, I'll leave them for the experts on here, they'll be able to point u in the rite direction :P

[ari666]

not trying to be a smartarse, id help, but you are set on acrylic, so i cant really.

[azzfox]

I will definitely practice on a few spare panels first cheers.

Sooooo are you unfamiliar with acrylic or you just dont like it lol. I wanted to use 2pak but after speaking to the few people I know who have painted before Ive been convinced to use acrylic. On the basis of I dont feel like heating my shed or buying an air fed hood. How much more toxic it is compared to acrylic Im not actually sure. Just going by what I hear. But feel free to convince me to not use acrylic. Btw, there isnt any rentable booths around here and I would much rather do it at home and take my time anyway.

[Jonno]

Sooooo are you unfamiliar with acrylic or you just dont like it lol

doesnt like it

[Bellicose]

I'll give you some advice shortly mate, but for now, whoever tells you that you can't get a decent finish in a shed is full of it.

See my post on page 3 in this thread.

Backyard Spray Job on VN commodore (Black) need info

[Bellicose]

Oh, i just finished this fridge today in my shed with 2 pack.

[ari666]

HOLY SHIT!!!! that looks frikken amazing. wasnt sure if it was a mirror or not


azzfox. i dont really like it, but am unfamiliar with it. i also dont have heating in my shed or fans (two normal house fans blowing out the window) and my finishes came up ok.

[azzfox]

That does look bloody amazing^

Not really worried about the whole shed thing. Just spraying 2pak in the shed, and if not getting a similar finish with acrylic. Read through the whole thread and I still cant make my mind up. If I had the choice it would be 2pak. Wouldnt have a clue if its legal to spray in my area. Not that it would really deter me. But with no heater would it just take 2pak longer to dry? Makes sense to not spray 2pak over acrylic. So the factory paint would be 2pak? Also when I think acrylic I think flat colors, no nice metallics? Cant seem to find an answer for this lol

Oh yeah whole body pretty much has crows feet. Its pretty light though. Ive only just taken a closer look at it during the last few days. And well the bonnet, theres not just rust appearing though the cracks. Cracks have caused little bits to chip off exposing bare metal. I really need a pic to show what I mean. If it was an exec I would say forget about it

[azzfox]

As I said bonnet will most likely be replaced (unless theres hope). I do have a spare but it doesnt have the threaded holes for struts!

I found out its been hit in the passenger rear quarter. I bought it with the main glass in the rear door and quarter window broken. Had the quarter taped up but finally managed to get the back seat out the other day (long story) and removing the tape removed the paint exposing pink bog/filler. Would have been repaired ages ago because the paints as crap as the rest of the car. Apart from the paint its all straight on the inside so they diddnt just bog over the damage and paint it.

With the parcel shelf removed I found a little bit of rust under the back window. Not enough to cut out but it will need some attention to stop it from getting worse. Then with the roof lining removed I found a fair amount of surface rust around the edge of the roof! I cant figure that one out. Again not serious at this stage but Im a bit cautious about it. No sign of rust on the outside. I guess being a 23 year old car with previous owners that diddnt give a shit about it Im bound to come across stuff like this

[kerrie0400]

2 pac anyday.its thicker so it doesnt chip as easy.you dont need a booth i have done my jobs in a shed, thats what colour sanding is for!!! i personally would use a bigger air compressor as i have tried to use electric 2.5hp one and it wasnt enough to keep up. i just used a sca spray gun for $110 - $140, does the job. i got 1lt of base, 1.5lt primer kit, 1lt med hardner and 2lts of thinners for $150 and thats plenty to do my hilux single cab, so its not that exspensive considering how long it last, my advice is go with 2 pac

[azzfox]

Can you get away with just a decent respirator? Maybe goggles too? Thats the main thing Im concerned about. I think I got stooged with the air compressor. Bought it a year ago when I was going to paint my old VN. $600 from total tools. Belt drive with regulator/filter and 2 outlets. They diddnt have a very big range. Was either that or go the next size up but I thought $600 was plenty. Not happy to find people on here picking up cheapy ones that flow alot more lol. I diddnt want direct drive though would that be why mine was so expensive?

[ari666]

if the rust is just surface rust you can prolly just get away with a healthy dose of de-oxidine. youll have to scrub it up first with wire brush of better yet the wire wheel on an angle grinder, but if you are talking about the bottom corner of the rear window, its a bit of a bitch to get to.

small compressors are fine to use, but you will have to keep stopping to let it catch up with you. i.e. spray a guard, chill for 1 mninute then spray the next one etc. itll be a bit of a pain when you do the clear cos you will have some parts already going off which wont blend with the next wet coat, but you can always fix that later with 1000 grit.

that cracked paint in pic1 is gonna have to come off completely. there is way too much surface rust under it to cover up. what i have done in the past is use paint stripper to get it all off, coat the whole the thing really thickly with rust converter and let it sit for at least day (usually a lot more. i.e. strip it off one weekend then come back the next weekend), then come back and sand off all the rust converter with 120 grit. you will have to get rid of every single tiny incy-wincy spot of surface rust, or itll bubble up in 6 weeks then you will have to start over.

a regular sundstrom mask works pretty well. gotta get the gas/particle one though which is about 100 bucks. goggles will probably hinder you but if you can see ok then i dont see why not. and as far as drying times go, if you stick in 2k fast hardner, a shit-tonne of thinner and its a 26+ degree day, itll be touch dry in 30 mins. on one of the backyearder i did we had everything prepped and ready on thursday night, painted at 10am on friday, by 12 we were blocking it back and buffing and by 4pm both bars and bonnet were back on his car. he went to the JC meet in fountaingate that day to show it off

thanks just using the power of the sun. no heater, no fans.

[azzfox]

Thats awesome! So you reckon its worth saving the bonnet. A sundstrom mask with gas filter seems the go. How bad on the eyes is it?

Probably take the back window out to get to the rust. This is the WORST of the back window, other sides still intact. The roof - its right around it!

[ari666]

while the roof is getting to the bad stage, you can just spray rust converter in there cos there is no other way to get access without picking off welds.

but that rear window is starting to get to the stage where itll need some material removed to treat its cancer. i doubt rust converter will penetrate all the way into the existing rust, so the stuff in the middle will spring to life again.


do i think its worth saving the bonnet? that depends on how much your time is worth. its gonna take a LOT of time to get the old paint off. get ready for at least 8-10 hours of scraping/sanding/bogging and prepping.

[azzfox]

Dont think my spare bonnet was more than $50. Was the closest color to my old VN that I could find, diddnt worry then if I could put struts on it. Probably not a bad idea to grab another.

Does this rust converter just come in a can? Would you recommend anything in particular?

Cheers for the help

[ari666]

i have 2 kinds. the cheap(er) version is a thin liquid and comes in a spray bottle. i went over all the places i couldnt get to in the impala with it. its called "fertan" and works pretty well. you can spray that up in your roof and itll take care of it for a couple of years. no need to paint over it.

the other stuff is what you will need on your bonnet. there is a brand called deoxidine which i havnt been able to find, or motorcraft make a very similar stuff. its more like a thick cream which you scrub onto the metal with scotchbrite. you can sand/paint do whatever with this stuff once its set. you have to leave it for 24 hours, but after that its ready to spray 2k hi fill on. completely stable (although i wouldnt) it turns the metal deep green/black wherever the rust has affected.

your local auto paint store will have the brand they suggest to use. tell them the two different places you need to treat cos' different converters do different things.

[DAKSTER]

Get rid of the bonnet. Its removable, cheap to replace. It will take forever to save, if its even possible.

Rust convertor as Ari suggests on the rest. The peeling paint is all going to have to come off too, every bit of it. Thats a lot more than just crows feet ... of course, that means you will need to undercoat it as well.

2k is poisonous. If you must insist on using it in your backyard, make sure you have appropriate breathing equipment and wear long sleeves and pants.

2k requires less work after spraying to attain the mirror finish like Bellicose has on the fridge, definite plus for that. Acrylic will come up just as well though, just needs more blocking back and polishing.

Acrylic is mostly no longer used in panel shops because of the labour involved, and because they have everything they need to safely apply 2pak. In the backyard, acrylic is a safer but more labour intensive option.

Both paints can be made to shine equally well. 2k is harder, so is generally harder to damage. Acrylic is a little softer, and can sometimes absorb minor damage in the same way a bumper bar can take back its shape, whereas the 2k may just crack or scratch in the same situation.

I favour acrylic for backyard spraying, because my labour is free. If I was paying someone to paint it, I'd go 2pak and let them breath the poison instead, saving a fortune in labour in the process.

The rust at the back window is beyond redemption and needs to be cut out and replaced.

Your call, good luck with it and keep us posted .

[azzfox]

I dont really have a "local" auto paint shop. Got 2 in mind that are maybe 30mins away. Just a bit hard to get around when I cant drive for another 7 weeks or so. Getting there!

As for the 2k/acrylic thing that is a good point - labour is free. But every time I step towards acrylic I fall back on 2pak, and vice-versa. Gonna see what these shops have to offer.

Consider the bonnet gone. Need a boot lid too as someones fixed the spoiler by drilling more holes... I reckon the rust corrector and a brush should be able to coat most of the roof. When theres enough room to get it in the shed I will take the back window out and see what I can do. I also picked up a gregorys manual on spray painting that seems pretty useful. Step-by-step guide for a full respray, bare metal or over the old paint. But it does advise against using 2k at home and its basically all acrylic. If I do decide to go 2k Im sure I can still use it as a guide.

Anyway thanks for the help so far, I now have an idea about what I need to do and I will keep you posted