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Alloytec Timing Chains replacement

Discussion in 'VE Holden Commodore (2006 - 2013)' started by Chaney, Feb 21, 2011.

  1. Chaney

    Chaney New Member

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    Hello everyone,

    I've recently got a check engine light and error code p0018 which is a Crankshaft/Camshaft correlation error on Bank 2, Intake sensor. Seems most likely to be a stretched timing chain so am about to tackle this myself as holden want approx $1800 to do it. I have the factory service manual and have got my head around the procedure fairly well, and while its a lot of work it doesn't look like the worst job i've ever done.

    It is a 2006 Omega with 170k on it, and was running well before this happened. Its still running BTW but reduced power and check engine light.

    There are two special tools needed, a camshaft locking tool (EN 46105) and Crankshaft rotation socket (EN 46111). Holden doesn't sell the tools, but gave the company SPX engineering who I rang. They don't sell direct but do supply Repco/Bursons etc. SPX is currently out-of-stock for maybe another 4 weeks.

    Was wondering if anyone has done this themselves, and if you are in the Brisbane area and would be willing to sell/hire out these tools so I can get an earlier start on the job? I guess even posting them would be an option also.


    Cheers,

    Chaney.
     
  2. vn4250

    vn4250 vedelta

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    I've just started this massive job. So far two steps away from removing the front engine cover but first the hurdle to get the aircon bracket off. And the final hurdle is to find a shop or someone who has a V6 Flywheel Holder (Locking tool EN-46106) and then I'll be able to tackle the harmonic balancer.

    Once I get to the timing components I too am trying to locate the same mentioned tools as you Chaney. Already picked up my timing chains from Holden yesterday, costed me about $520. Gonna get the rest of the assembly gaskets and seals next week when I get more money.
     
  3. heyitsEnricoPallazzo

    heyitsEnricoPallazzo Big block Alloytec

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    Does that price of $520 include sprockets, guides and tensioners?
     
  4. vn4250

    vn4250 vedelta

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    That's for the chains only. Guides & tensioners are extra costs, which I'm getting bit by bit due to my weekly budget constraints. Just ordered my flywheel holder $60 from the US so waiting for that to arrive as that is holding up my progress (the same flywheel holder to order from a supplier here quoted $250 and 4 weeks wait - WTF).

    Can't wait to get old chains out to measure how much it has stretched but with the camshaft covers open I have felt the chains, left side is tight and right side is slightly loose... I assume both side should be even tightness when new. In the meantime while I'm waiting I'll clean up the sludge build up in the engine. Goes to show how critical regular oil change is for a VE.
     
  5. heyitsEnricoPallazzo

    heyitsEnricoPallazzo Big block Alloytec

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    $520 for just the bloody chains!

    Mine has the chain start-up rattle. Has for the last four years.

    Was looking at doing this myself. Tried and tried to find a complete kit in the US. To no avail. Found complete kits with special tools to do the job however. Including the tool in question above. Very pricey.

    Do you have an estimate of the full cost in parts (ex Holden) for the job?
     
  6. vn4250

    vn4250 vedelta

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    Holden gave me a parts list costing about $1200 for the lot (to get it done properly). Special tools are likely to set me back another $400. Hey this is better than forking out $2600 to get done by a Holden dealership who couldn't care less about the car anyways.
     
  7. vt_on_20s

    vt_on_20s vt gone ve s2 ss ute now!

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    i have done 100s of alloytech chain/tensioner replacements. ive got the job down to 4 hours.

    the camshaft locking tools are almost pointless. the cams have a flat spot at the back end (under rocker covers) and all you need to do is rotate the cams so the flat spot faces up. the compression strokes will hold the cams at this spot perfectly. the markings on the cam sprockets are where you'll need to line up exactly.

    the only special tools you will need is a balancer removal tool (repco) and a balancer bolt cracking tool (repco) this is to crack the bolts initial torque then you can wind it out with your hand. (if you dont have access to rattle gun/ air compressor)

    you will need:

    timing cover sealant
    2x rocker cover gaskets
    inner water pump gasket
    2x coolant orings
    coolant
    oil
    3x chains
    all tensioners and guides (if you want proper safe job)

    when you have undone all the timing cover 13mm bolts (from memory there is 20, not including the 2 that are part of drive belt tensioner) there is a threaded hole in the timing cover near the water pump that you can put a bolt in and tighten and it will wind the timing cover off and save you having to pry at it and scratch the alloy surfaces.

    timing the chains up is very easy if you follow the steps carefully. just be sure to line dots with dots and arrows with arrows. ps fat chain for middle and the two longer secondary chains (same part no) are for the cams.

    from memory the a/c bracket does not need to be removed. also be sure you tighten all tensioners and guides before you pull the pins out if the tenioners. And in saying that, make sure you pull the pins out of each tensioner before you turn the crank over to do the next chain.

    hope this helps. sorry for going on and on. its just i feel like i should tell what i know. wish i was there, could have done it for you for a case of beer or two.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2011
  8. heyitsEnricoPallazzo

    heyitsEnricoPallazzo Big block Alloytec

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    Your comments are very much appreciated VT. Thanks for the comprehensive reply.

    What do you suggest using to lock the flywheel if no tool is available.?
     
  9. vn4250

    vn4250 vedelta

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    a few quick answers needed please:
    does spark plugs need to be removed?
    how is the a/c bracket not be removed? there is one bolt for the timing cover behind the bracket.
    is a breaker bar enough to crack open the balancer bolt? if not then i'll borrow my mates compressor.
    is it necessary to lock the flywheel at the starter motor, can turning the crankshaft done without it damage the motor?
    how did you rotate crankshaft? with special tool?

    going by your advice i won't worry about cam locking tools and follow your procedure. thanks for the great info, when i finish the job, you definitely find a case come your way.
     
  10. vt_on_20s

    vt_on_20s vt gone ve s2 ss ute now!

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    Anytime brother
     
  11. Chaney

    Chaney New Member

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    Thought I'd sign in and do an update from my perspective and noticed a few replies etc, but where I am at now is:

    Holden have no tensioners left in Australia basically, the left hand side (passenger side) is due into Melbourne on 23/03/11, and the right side is not due into Melb until 29/03/11. I was able to get the passenger side and primary tensioner before they went out of stock, but right now my car is garaged until I can get the right side. According to Eagers holden there is a back order of about 250+ tensioners across Australia which means 250+ VE's off the road until this part arrives in Australia. Apparently the tensioners are failing in hordes so anyone doing a change I recommend installing the revised parts (all 3 tensioners). I have replaced all chains, tensioners and guides to be safe.

    Right now my car is my garage all timed up, but no RHS tensioner means I cant put the rest together until I get it. Worst thing is I can tell my VE has been opened up before (dodgy ie not factory bolts etc used, and BTW has only ever been serviced by holden through lease plan, before I purchased it). Seems like the timing chain was replaced before but now the tensioners have failed and my primary chain had slipped one tooth, no wonder it wouldn't start.

    Thanks Vt for the info, I wish I would have had that info earlier but I have fumbled my way through the process (actually the service manual helped alot). I would probably leave the rocker cover gaskets out tho as the seem reusable and at approx $100 each is ridiculous. Unless there is a reason for replacing them?

    Special tools need are the flywheel locking tool, power steering pulley puller and probably the pins to guide the front cover back on (i haven't got there yet but do have these)

    The camshaft locking tool is definitely not needed as mentioned by Vt, I just rotated the engine by hand until it was all lined up, then took off chains and replaced without any problems.

    Feel free to ask any other Q's also, for anyone else out there doing this job which shouldn't need doing.

    Chaney.
     
  12. Chaney

    Chaney New Member

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    Hi Vn,

    Just finished typing and saw your q's.

    My spark plugs are still in, easy enough to turn over with them in. I have the special socket to turn the crank, but I have a feeling that you may be able to use the crankshaft bolt to do this - unconfirmed though. Flywheel needs to be locked so you can undo crank bolt, and redo at the correct torque.

    I also cheated a bit by not removing the lower intake manifold and just loosened the oil filter bolts enough that I could get the LHS rocker cover off the engine. Will leak a bit of oil though.
     
  13. vt_on_20s

    vt_on_20s vt gone ve s2 ss ute now!

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    chaney, the lower intake mani is only 2 x 13mm bolts more and a fuel line. prob easier to take out but each to there own.

    Yes, crank shaft balancer bolt can be used to rotate the crank.

    yes, perfectly fine to reuse rocker cover gaskets. im used to doing them under warranty and doing everything.

    flywheel locking tool is in my opinion a way harder process to crack the bolt. there are bolt cracking tools or compressors to hire/borrow off a mate, with a rattle gun. (sorry never not had a gun handy)

    OK, VN4250 in answer to your questions. NO - the plugs dont need to be removed. NO - a breaker bar is not enough to crack the bolt. i strongly advise just borrowing your mates compressor. YES - you can turn the crankshaft, using the balancer bolt.. although you should only have to turn it approx 1/4 turn to line up the secong mark.

    please ask any other questions if need be.

    PS. i have never ever! needed to remove the powersteering pulley. the pump and bracket come off seperately, one after the other but never does the pully need to be seperated from the pump. so no tool needed there.

    also the alligning pins someone mentioned about for putting the timing cover back on.. never even heard of this. the cover goes on very easily and has its own dals that line it up perfectly as it is a flush fit. this will be the least of your worries and im confident you will have no trouble putting the cover back on.
     
  14. Chaney

    Chaney New Member

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    hmmm maybe I didn't need to remove the power steering pulley, but it seemed like the only way to get at the bolts behind it, oh well.

    I think the flywheel balancer pulley may have been revised in later models eg have a key for position etc. Mine is Aug 06 so one of the first VE's, and doesn't have a key slot, just pressed on very tight. I was able to get it off with a breaker bar tho with a bit of effort.
     
  15. vn4250

    vn4250 vedelta

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    finally was able to remove the front timing cover. i received my flywheel locking tool today in the post from the USA and it works great. used a breaker bar to get the balancer bolt off no problems. now that i'm short on time cos' i gotta return to work this work, its gonna take longer to complete this job. can't wait to get those chains out.
     
  16. Sabbath'

    Sabbath' Road Boss

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    And getting it back on with the lower intake manifold in place is a pain for 2 bolts and a fuel line. Means another gasket possibly.
     
  17. Chaney

    Chaney New Member

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    Hi Vt,

    I have everything back together and resulted in a no start, has fuel and spark is it nearly started a couple of times. Compression test is getting 70-100 PSI on both banks. sh*t. Two of us triple checked the timing so I dont think its that, but either way everything is coming apart again. My question is, are these an interference engine? I have found several comments on the net, some saying they are & some saying they aren't. The photos I've seen have indents in the piston to allow valve clearance but I really dont know. Have you seen any/much valve damage to these things? Next stage the heads might have to come off.....

    BTW found how to move the p/steer pulley out of the way, didn't seem to want to budge without those 2 bolts the first time but yeah got it figured now.

    Cheers - glad your involved in this thread!
     
  18. Sabbath'

    Sabbath' Road Boss

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    You sure the timing was exact and not a tooth out?
     
  19. Chaney

    Chaney New Member

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    checked and checked it, but gonna have to open it up again and see anyway. I rotated it by hand a fair bit to try and get all the marks to line up again but it must be a lot of revolutions before that happens again. In hindsight I should have rotated it a few revs, then in reverse the same amount. Let you know how i go tomorrow.
     
  20. vn4250

    vn4250 vedelta

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    i got the chains off tonight and measured them...

    left & right old chains were equal length, then compare them with the new chains and no difference in length.
    centre old chain compared with centre new chain result is the older chain is 4 millimetres longer (stretched).

    now its time to put the new chains in... question: does left & right chains both need to be same tension when fitted?
    now
     

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