Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

Cam angle sensor.

Discussion in 'VR - VS Holden Commodore (1993 - 1997)' started by Haydz, Feb 19, 2008.

  1. Haydz

    Haydz Fasten your seatbelts

    Messages:
    1,452
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Location:
    Liverpool.Sydney,NSW
    Members Ride:
    VS UTE LS1 T56
    hey well really at the moment my car is running but it does not run very well
    so the question is
    i have the plug on the loom for the cam angle sensor but there is no connector on the engine. when i bought the car i was informed that the engine had been changed with another one and im guessing that it was not the exact same engine.
    this leads me to the problem

    the car changes itself to limp home mode because it is not getting the signal from the cam angle sensor. and thus runs rough chew fuel etc.
    the only way i can think of fixing this problem may be to install a computer that doesnt run with a cam angle sensor. does anyone else have any ideas or know what model i would be looking at

    just so you know its a 94 vr berlina auto
    thanks alot.
    any help will be appreciated,
     
  2. hako

    hako Donating Member

    Messages:
    7,970
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Location:
    Toowoomba SE QLD
    Members Ride:
    VS11 BT1 V6
    I've read somewhere that if the cam angle sensor is unserviceable the ECU runs on a default figure....and not limp home mode and the result is a slight increase in fuel consumption. Maybe the car is going into LHM for some other reason.
     
  3. Haydz

    Haydz Fasten your seatbelts

    Messages:
    1,452
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Location:
    Liverpool.Sydney,NSW
    Members Ride:
    VS UTE LS1 T56
    in limp home mode will i get like a miss every 3 cycles when idling and also i have checked the computer for codes and i get a code 48 cam angle sensor-missing or intermittent.
     
  4. hako

    hako Donating Member

    Messages:
    7,970
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Location:
    Toowoomba SE QLD
    Members Ride:
    VS11 BT1 V6
    In LHM the main effect will be transmission related with only 2nd and 3rd gear being available....this is so that if something is wrong then not too much strain will be put on the car.
    So...I'd say you're not in LHM and the miss every 3 cycles is due to the computer or ECU not being told by the cam angle sensor when to fire the injectors so it fires the injectors in a kind of 'backup' method.
    What I'd do is write down the engine number, go to Holden and find what model the engine is from and then get a ECU from a wrecker....dunno the price but they rarely fail so should not be big dollars....or cheaper may be Ebay or a private person wrecking their car. But until you get the correct ECU you will have this problem. There may also be another problem as the VS (not sure about early VR) trans is also controlled by the ECU
    but hopefully that doesn't apply to you.
    Maybe post the number to this forum and someone can identify it.
     
  5. SweetWagon

    SweetWagon booosted

    Messages:
    2,139
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Location:
    Springwood NSW
    Members Ride:
    VS Berlina Wagon Supercharged
    VR also run electronic auto. Sounds possible someone has replaced the motor with something pre-vr (ie. no cam angle sensor) with the original loom and ECU.
     
  6. azkwazere

    azkwazere Ahhh Yes, Ahhh Yes....

    Messages:
    1,813
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Location:
    .....SE Burbs
    Members Ride:
    VP 5-SPD / 24-SPD Racer Hybrid
    Where is the thermostat on your engine?

    aZk.

    Edit: Ok, you have a SII engine, still could be from a VN or VP... Check engine serial with holden.
     
  7. Haydz

    Haydz Fasten your seatbelts

    Messages:
    1,452
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Location:
    Liverpool.Sydney,NSW
    Members Ride:
    VS UTE LS1 T56
    im unsure of what you mean.have a look in the vr/vs my ride section and youc an see the pictures. there are some of the engine bay if this helps.
     
  8. hako

    hako Donating Member

    Messages:
    7,970
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Location:
    Toowoomba SE QLD
    Members Ride:
    VS11 BT1 V6
    I think Azkwazere has looked at your engine and figured its a VN-VP series 2
    which means that to run things properly you will need a ECU from a VN-VP auto.....but that throws another spanner in as your car should have a 4L60E transmission which is controlled by the ECU and this ECU must have the Cam Angle Sensor input.
    So.....things that I'd do would be first check what transmission you have - it should have a ident on the bellhousing viewable from the passenger side. The first letter of the ID should be 4 (if yours is 94 build) which means it should be a 4L60E. But if its an earlier date then the trans is probably a 4L60 (not electronically controlled)
    So - if the trans is 4L60E then fitting a VN-VP ECU will make the engine run OK but the trans will not operate correctly as it needs the VR ECU.
    This is getting horribly complicated!
    How about looking where the cam angle sensor goes - does it have a blanking plate where you could fit one?....I've heard that the front covers can be swapped so maybe thats another option.
    But really the first thing is to establish exactly what you have - engine/trans/ECU.
     
  9. Haydz

    Haydz Fasten your seatbelts

    Messages:
    1,452
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Location:
    Liverpool.Sydney,NSW
    Members Ride:
    VS UTE LS1 T56
    thanks hako. i will go out and find out what i have hell i might even give the guy i bought it off a call.
    and see if he knows anything
    should i call holden and find out what engine number it is.
    i will pull off the left kick panel and tell you what ecu it is?
    im not sure where i would find the trans info thanks for all your help guys
     
  10. Haydz

    Haydz Fasten your seatbelts

    Messages:
    1,452
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Location:
    Liverpool.Sydney,NSW
    Members Ride:
    VS UTE LS1 T56
    well just come back in and the info i have is as follows.
    vin:6h8vrl19hrl694138
    engine no: vh1239726
    and the computer just say 3.8ltr auto ecu
     
  11. Haydz

    Haydz Fasten your seatbelts

    Messages:
    1,452
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Location:
    Liverpool.Sydney,NSW
    Members Ride:
    VS UTE LS1 T56
    also. i have thought about changing the front plate. but the cam has to have a magnet on it to tell the sensor where it is doesnt it ?
    so this would mean i would need a new cam aswell.
    any pictures of the exact location would be helpful but im pretty certain i have a blank there.
     
  12. hako

    hako Donating Member

    Messages:
    7,970
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Location:
    Toowoomba SE QLD
    Members Ride:
    VS11 BT1 V6
    Its located between the harmonic balancer and the waterpump - about midway and a bit to the left. There should be either a blanking plate there or a casting mark where it would be if they machined it out. Re the cam - maybe they all have the magnet as its cheaper production-wise otherwise the camshaft sprocket can be unbolted from the cam.
     
  13. Haydz

    Haydz Fasten your seatbelts

    Messages:
    1,452
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Location:
    Liverpool.Sydney,NSW
    Members Ride:
    VS UTE LS1 T56
    it has a blank plate thing there but there is a hole in the plate.
    so really to install a cam angle sensor. wouldn't cost all that much?
     
  14. hako

    hako Donating Member

    Messages:
    7,970
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Location:
    Toowoomba SE QLD
    Members Ride:
    VS11 BT1 V6
    Thats as long as the sensor fits in the hole and there is a magnet on the cam sprocket. When you say "blank plate" does that mean the plate can be removed?
     
  15. Cheap6

    Cheap6 New Member

    Messages:
    2,498
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2005
    Members Ride:
    VP Exec
    If you search some of the US sites/forums on other cars that use the Buick V6, you can find info. on how to replace the cam sensor magnet on/in the cam pulley.
    (It is more of a problem on earlier cars).

    Hako, you may be correct, if the engine is from a late VP, it's possible that provision for the magnet in the cam gear will be present, as often in preparation for a model change, small part differences are made and fitted to the previous model late in the build. (It helps stagger the changes with the new model).

    If the hole is there, maybe the engine is VR and the sensor has not been connected for some reason.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2008
  16. Haydz

    Haydz Fasten your seatbelts

    Messages:
    1,452
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Location:
    Liverpool.Sydney,NSW
    Members Ride:
    VS UTE LS1 T56
    well i have the small hole. i will check it out tomorrow when its daylight again. like i have the one for the screw.
    and also i called my local holden and they could not track the engine number.
    thanks again guys
     
  17. azkwazere

    azkwazere Ahhh Yes, Ahhh Yes....

    Messages:
    1,813
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Location:
    .....SE Burbs
    Members Ride:
    VP 5-SPD / 24-SPD Racer Hybrid
    Ring RTA or vicroads or whatever you have and ask them if the engine has ever been changed.... I cant tell the differnece between a VR engine and a VP engine from the outside... does your chassis plates make reference to the engine?

    aZk.
     
  18. Haydz

    Haydz Fasten your seatbelts

    Messages:
    1,452
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Location:
    Liverpool.Sydney,NSW
    Members Ride:
    VS UTE LS1 T56
    will give them a call when i get home this arvo. but the guy said he had changed it with the rta. should i attempt to get the previous engine number? or just asking if it has been changed>?
     
  19. hako

    hako Donating Member

    Messages:
    7,970
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Location:
    Toowoomba SE QLD
    Members Ride:
    VS11 BT1 V6
    Why don't you go to a wrecker and ask can you look at the front of a V6 engine - have a good look at where the cam angle sensor fits and decide whether one will fit your current engine. If it looks like it will fit either grab one from the wreckers or buy a new one and fit it - wreckers will only want $20 or so for it so its a cheap way.
    If the timing cover does have the hole machined for the sensor then its an even bet that the magnet is on the chain sprocket.....
    The engine number or what car it came from is really just a side issue as without the sensor the car will always have that problem.....fit the sensor and the ECU gets its signal and hopefully all will be well. You may also find that the RTA will want you to pay for any information!
     
  20. Haydz

    Haydz Fasten your seatbelts

    Messages:
    1,452
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Location:
    Liverpool.Sydney,NSW
    Members Ride:
    VS UTE LS1 T56
    heres some pictures of what i have
     

    Attached Files:

Share This Page